ImBatman

Everything buttoned up, primed, adjusted, filled, checked and rechecked. Pushed it out of the garage and got about 20 seconds worth of turn over before battery went dead. It is\was a new Optima so I am sure that it was just due to sitting as well as all the trouble shooting that I did trying to find the source of the water in #3 cylinder.

The battery has been on the charger all night so it should be good to go this morning.

Just to verify my distributor install.
When I dropped the distributor I was TDC on the balancer and compression stroke. This was verified by both looking at lifter position and placing a finger over #1 hole and feeling the compression. The rotor was pointing at the #1 cylinder and then I put the cap on and rotated the distributor body where #1 on the cap was right where the rotor was in pointing to #1 cylinder. Fuel bowls are full. There was no popping, spitting or sputtering during the 20 seconds of cranking.

Does all this sound right ? Any adjustments to my setup before I put the battery back in and start cranking?

Jim (427HotRod) Had me order the better camshaft core and I am breaking in with outer springs only, lots of cam lube, Rotella oil and GM EOS so hopefully wiped lobes are not going to be an issue.


Thanks
Wade

gkull

With Number one at TDC and the balancer indicator at "0" You want to drop the distributer in so as its mesh the dist. teeth the rotor rotates into a position just before the caps metal stud for wire number one.

Install it with your 12 degrees or what ever advance right off the bat so the motor is close to correct timing when you fire it up with the timing light attached. You also have the dist. lock down bolt installed, but only snug enough to allow for rotation to get the timing right.

I always do a few pumps of the squirter's and then keep the throttle floored when I hit the ignition.

On a brand new motor. I set the idle screws way out for a richer condition and keep the initial timing down just so you are not building max cylinder pressures on a new motor.

ImBatman

Ok I think I am a little lost here. If I dropped the dist in with the rotor pointing at #1 on the compression stroke this is correct right? Now the body of the dist moves to advance and retard. So I should have turned the body so that the cap stud is just before the rotor point? I should not need to pull the distributor again correct?


Thanks
Wade

BB68Vett

If I were you I would go back to the basics. First, verify spark. I would attach a timing light to one of the spark plug wires while another person cranks the engine. Pull the trigger on the timing light and you should see a flash of light. If you have no flash, then there is no spark and you then need to dig deeper. If you defintiely have a spark, then I would re-do the distributor from scratch. Bring the engine to tdc firing on #1, verify the rotor is pointing to the #1 tower and that the #1 tower wire is going to the #1 spark plug. It's probably a silly mistake. Good luck.

gkull

With Number one at TDC and the balancer indicator at "0" You want to drop the distributer in so as its meshs the dist. teeth the rotor rotates into a position just before the caps metal stud for wire number one.

The helical cut gear teeth of the distributer drive gear cause the rotor shaft to turn as you slide the dist down.

You want to end up installing it with 10-12 degrees advance on the number one plug and lightly tighten the lock nut down. That is a good spark advance to cam breakin a motor.

When you have everything set, the motor will fire up instantly and you verify your timing with a light and it is off to the races at 2500 rpm to get some heat in it.

I really think that most of the people that end up with flat cams are dicking around with a non firing or sputtering and popping motor for 1/2 a day. They probably have bad gas in tank from sitting in the car for over 3 months. Their cylinders and valves get all washed down by gasoline and then they wonder why their motor is AFU.

I've also ran H and M flat lifters with near 20% more seat pressure and never had a flat cam

I use a stud in the manifold and locktight it in

yellow 72

I don't think people take into consideration all the non start cranking they do with a new flat tappet cam.
I've used most of the cam makers stuff and never had a "bad cam"

Durango_Boy

Can you explain what you mean by this?

gkull

I don't like to screw steel bolts in and out of aluminum. You end up stripping the threads out over a period of time. So with aluminum heads I use exhaust studs. with aluminum intake manifolds I cut a hardened bolts threads off to correct length and glue it in the distributer hold down hole.

Then to loosen or tighten the dist. hold down fork I just spin a nut with a washer under it.

Durango_Boy

Gotcha...I like those ideas. I have aluminum heads coming, and will use a few of those ideas.

ImBatman

Ok guys just to clarify. When it did not start up right off the bat I did not continue "dicken" around with it.

I have found that I have a voltage issue somewhere between the harness ignition wire and the distributor. I have 12v at the ignition wire when the switch is on. From there the wire runs into the MSD box 6AL box. The box has a dedicated power wire that runs to the big bolt on the starter and I have verified voltage there. The MSD feeds the coil and then a double wire with plug in plugs to the distributor. When should I see voltage on either side of the coil ?


Guys I am not trying to be a jerk on this last statement so please don't take it that way. I know some of you have strong opinions about MSD boxes. This is not the thread to express them please. I just need help tracing the problem. This is a fairly new box that was working fine when I pulled the motor. I have to go with what I have. This said thanks for any suggestions and advice you can give me.

Wade

pws69

Just for your own sanity, it might be best to just unhook the MSD until you get the cam broken in - points, condensor, and coil - the basic setup. It's a very easy thing to do and you can reduce your troubleshooting path significantly. Once it's running and the cam has the initial break-in done, then hook up the MSD and see what you got.

ImBatman

Ok good point. I am not sure where to begin on bypassing everything though. Where does the ignition wire go to the coil. I assume I have to run a wire from the starter as well correct? Then does anything connect to the distributor except the coil wire?

Thanks
Wade

71406

I would add one more step to this process. Pull the number 1 plug wire off the plug and insert an insulated phillips screwdriver into the plug wire. Holding the insulated handle position the screwdriver shaft a quarter inch from a ground surface and with the ignition ON, slowly rotate the distributor back and forth a few degrees until you get a spark. Once you get the spark lightly tighten the distributor clamp. This added step does two thinkgs...its confirms your getting spark and it ensures # 1 is firing at TDC. This should be enough to get you started but have your timing light hooked up so that you can set correctly once it fires.

Good luck.

427Hotrod

So you have no spark at all? It was working fine before and no other changes to electrical?

Once you get spark..might need to dig up the manual..or go here:

http://www.msdignition.com/1download.htm


Then you can leave it installed as it was. When you are on TDC and rotor and cap are aligned to #1 terminal...you are firing AT TDC. That's way retarded. Turn the distributor housing CCW until vacuum can is pointing at carb almost. That should give enough advance to make it hit. You want a good bit of advance to keep it cool during breakin.

The way George is describing it, you would put balancer on say 12*..and then align pointer and cap to end up with 12* advance. Either way works..just get some advance in there. Just short of *kicking back* when you try to start it.

Have water hose ready to cool it down as needed.
Set idle speed high....back out idle screws a couple of turns.

Good luck!
JIM

dannyman

Wade, if you only got 20 seconds of crank before your battery died I would say you didn't have enough power in the battery to start with. Try it after a full charge and you should be good to go.

SIXFOOTER

I don't want to offend anyone here, But, this is close but not quite right. With the ballancer mark @ 0 you want the distributor indexed so that the rotor is just PAST the No1 plug contact. You want the timing advanced, so when the plug fires (rotor @ the No1 contact) the timing mark will not have arrived at the 0 mark yet.
I set mine up like this and it fired and idled in less that 2 revs.
Ignore the fat *** in the video

The Money Pit

I set my balancer mark to about 16 or so before TDC and then install the dizzy so the rotor hits the number one tower on the compression stroke. Been though a dozen motors like that and every one fires on the first crank with a splash of gas in the carb.

Last run through the 406, it had been sitting almost a year, and it started on the battery alone, with no jump on the first crank.

MotorHead

Get the rotor close number 1 terminal. Turn the motor over, if it doesn't start move the distributor one way a little, if no start move it the other way a little. If there is spark it will fire. Put a timing light on it and see where you are. If you have someone to crank it over for you then you can move the distributor back and forth till it fires.

THis is how I always start a new motor, you don't know where your timing is so you have to "find" it

ImBatman

Thanks guys!!!! GOOD NEWS, MOTOR RAN LAST NIGHT!!!!!! I didn't get a chance to read through this last night. Me and a buddy were able to get it to stay running for about 3 minutes with im holding the throttle and me moving the dizzy. First fire up I was 33* advanced at 1500rpm's I quickly retarded it and that killed the motor. We then got it running again and it seems to be feast or famine with advance. To keep it running we had to jack a ton of adv in it. I seem to be running out of room at the dizzy to firewall getting the advance set. Then I saw that the PS control valve finally went and blew PS fluid on the header. Sticken smokey mess!!!!! We stopped for the night but I am going to get back on it today.

Oil pressure was great and no engine leaks!!!!

I cranked it with my origional post setting of balancer on 0 and dizzy dropped. Should I remove it and add some timing and drop it back in since I seem to be running into rotation clearence of the body with the firewall???

Thanks guys!!!! THE RAT LIVES AGAIN!!!!!!!!!

Gordonm

Any Video???

Any sound??