Hinckley/Williams "30-30" Valve Adjustment
09-06-2008, 12:43 AM
#1
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Hinckley/Williams "30-30" Valve Adjustment
Anybody out there familiar with the Hinckley Williams method for adjusting mechanical lifter lash on LT-1? Do you know if there is a similar method for the '69 big block with Chevy street mechanical cam?
09-06-2008, 05:27 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
I know the reasoning and have used the method on a "30-30" cam. The adjustment method for the LT-1 cam is the same but the lash spec is different.
The procedure I can email to you and I have the small block cam specs but I do not have the "revised" lash spec for the BB solid cam. The BB solid cam probably has simmilar LONG clearance ramps but Duke would know better than myself. If you have a dial indicator this is easy to see the clearance ramp transition as the motor is rotated near the lash point. The dial set up on a pushrod tip starts to move very slowly as the engine is rotated past the base circle. The clearance ramp lifts very slowly but once you get on the lift ramp portion of the lobe, the dial just takes off in a hurry. The clearance ramps on the "30-30" cam are right at .020" high. You want the lash to be all taken up very close to the transition point where the clearance ramp ends and the lift ramp begins BUT the lash must be tight enough to insure you do not have any clearance left when the lifter is riding on the lift portion of the lobe.
The "30-30" cam has a .020" ramp x 1.5 theoretical rocker arm ratio = .030" lash maximum measured at the valve tip. The problem comes in when the ACTUAL rocker arm ratio due to production tolerances is maybe only around 1.35 and you try to use the factory lash spec to set the valves. The .020" cam clearance ramp x 1.35 ACTUAL rocker arm ratio = .027" valvetrain lash clearance MAX at the valve tip but you set it to .030" because the manual told you to do it. You end up with all the clearance taken out when you are past the clearance ramp and .003" into the lift ramp.
Now you are slamming the valve down at full lift ramp velocity. This hammering the heck out of the valvetrain and beating up the seat as all the slack is taken up at full lift ramp velocity and the valve is slaping down hard - a bad thing.
The factory style stamped steel rocker arms are notorious for providing less than the theoretical 1.7 ratio (big block) or 1.5 ratio (small block) at lash point so if you are running the stock stamped rockers, you might be better off with a slightly tighter than stock lash. If you can measure your actual rocker arm ratio, we can calculate the new revised lash spec.
I hope this helps more than it confuses.
-Mark.
The procedure I can email to you and I have the small block cam specs but I do not have the "revised" lash spec for the BB solid cam. The BB solid cam probably has simmilar LONG clearance ramps but Duke would know better than myself. If you have a dial indicator this is easy to see the clearance ramp transition as the motor is rotated near the lash point. The dial set up on a pushrod tip starts to move very slowly as the engine is rotated past the base circle. The clearance ramp lifts very slowly but once you get on the lift ramp portion of the lobe, the dial just takes off in a hurry. The clearance ramps on the "30-30" cam are right at .020" high. You want the lash to be all taken up very close to the transition point where the clearance ramp ends and the lift ramp begins BUT the lash must be tight enough to insure you do not have any clearance left when the lifter is riding on the lift portion of the lobe.
The "30-30" cam has a .020" ramp x 1.5 theoretical rocker arm ratio = .030" lash maximum measured at the valve tip. The problem comes in when the ACTUAL rocker arm ratio due to production tolerances is maybe only around 1.35 and you try to use the factory lash spec to set the valves. The .020" cam clearance ramp x 1.35 ACTUAL rocker arm ratio = .027" valvetrain lash clearance MAX at the valve tip but you set it to .030" because the manual told you to do it. You end up with all the clearance taken out when you are past the clearance ramp and .003" into the lift ramp.
Now you are slamming the valve down at full lift ramp velocity. This hammering the heck out of the valvetrain and beating up the seat as all the slack is taken up at full lift ramp velocity and the valve is slaping down hard - a bad thing. The factory style stamped steel rocker arms are notorious for providing less than the theoretical 1.7 ratio (big block) or 1.5 ratio (small block) at lash point so if you are running the stock stamped rockers, you might be better off with a slightly tighter than stock lash. If you can measure your actual rocker arm ratio, we can calculate the new revised lash spec.
I hope this helps more than it confuses.
-Mark.
Last edited by stingr69; 09-13-2008 at 03:41 AM. Reason: Clarification
09-07-2008, 01:58 AM
#3
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Solid lifter cam valve adjustment
Anybody out there familiar with the Hinckley/Williams "30 - 30" solid lifter cam valve adjustment method? If so, do you know the if this team has a method for the '69 427 with street mechanical cam?
Thanks, frintz
Thanks, frintz
09-07-2008, 08:16 AM
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Le Mans Master
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I think the reason they had that special procedure for the 30-30 is because it has such long clearance ramps. With your 69 cam I would just use the EOIC method. When the exhaust starts to open adjust the intake. When the intake is nearly closed, adjust the exhaust. Works for me on my 69 solid and the 62 with the old Duntov cam.
Bill
Bill
09-13-2008, 12:38 AM
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[QUOTE=stingr69;1566994544]I know the reasoning and have used the method on a "30-30" cam. The adjustment method for the LT-1 cam is the same but the lash spec is different.
The procedure I can email to you and I have the small block cam specs but I do not have the "revised" lash spec for the BB solid cam. The BB solid cam probably has simmilar LONG clearance ramps but Duke would know better than myself. If you have a dial indicator this is easy to see the clearance ramp transition as the motor is rotated near the lash point. The dial set up on a pushrod tip starts to move very slowly as the engine is rotated past the base circle. The clearance ramp lifts very slowly but once you get on the lift ramp portion of the lobe, the dial just takes off in a hurry. The clearance ramps on the "30-30" cam are right at .020" high. You want the lash to be set very close to the transition point where the clearance ramp ends and the lift ramp begins BUT the lash must be tight enough to insure you do not have any clearance left when the lifter is riding on the lift portion of the lobe.
The "30-30" cam has a .020" ramp x 1.5 theoretical rocker arm ratio = .030" lash maximum measured at the valve tip. The problem comes in when the ACTUAL rocker arm ratio due to production tolerances is maybe only around 1.35 and you try to use the factory lash spec to set the valves. The .020" cam clearance ramp x 1.35 ACTUAL rocker arm ratio = .027" valvetrain lash clearance MAX at the valve tip but you set it to .030" because the manual told you to do it. You end up with all the clearance taken out when you are past the clearance ramp and .003" into the lift ramp. Now you are slamming the valve down at full lift ramp velocity. This hammering the heck out of the valvetrain and beating up the seat as all the slack is taken up at full lift ramp velocity and the valve is slaping down hard - a bad thing.
The factory style stamped steel rocker arms are notorious for providing less than the theoretical 1.7 ratio (big block) or 1.5 ratio (small block) at lash point so if you are running the stock stamped rockers, you might be better off with a slightly tighter than stock lash. If you can measure your actual rocker arm ratio, we can calculate the new revised lash spec.
I hope this helps more than it confuses.
-Mark.
Thanks for the info. I've learned much from you and another responder. My car is a '69 Corvette 427, 4 speed, 390 hp. My wife purchased the car in 1971 and it went into backyard storage in 1983 when we became parents. I've been bringing it back to life this year now that our daughter is 24 and not as time and finance consuming as before.
Before her birth in 1983 I rebuilt the 427 using small port open chamber heads, Chevy street mechanical cam, original Q-Jet and manifold, headers, breakerless ignition, and 9.75 comp ratio due to gas at that time. It's a street car and not driven much.
I did the intial valve adjustment cold, with no. 1 cyl at TDC using .024 intake, .028 exhaust. Though I've learned more than I thought there was I'm not confused but now have more questions. May I ask you the following questions?
1. Do you set the lash when the lifter is on the base circle or the ramp? (Is the ramp beginning determined by slight beginning movement of valve
2. Are setting the lash on a cold engine?
3. Why not set the lash with engine hot and running?
4. If hot and running, would you use splatter gards? (Do they work?)
5. Would you set the lash engine hot / NOT running?
6. If set hot / not running, would cooling become an issue?
7. Will you please e-mail the "procedure" that you mention?
Many thanks for your precise and informative input. I will never race the car but I do want it to run RIGHT and for a long time. And I enjoy learning how to make that happen.
Sincerely, FRED / frintz
The procedure I can email to you and I have the small block cam specs but I do not have the "revised" lash spec for the BB solid cam. The BB solid cam probably has simmilar LONG clearance ramps but Duke would know better than myself. If you have a dial indicator this is easy to see the clearance ramp transition as the motor is rotated near the lash point. The dial set up on a pushrod tip starts to move very slowly as the engine is rotated past the base circle. The clearance ramp lifts very slowly but once you get on the lift ramp portion of the lobe, the dial just takes off in a hurry. The clearance ramps on the "30-30" cam are right at .020" high. You want the lash to be set very close to the transition point where the clearance ramp ends and the lift ramp begins BUT the lash must be tight enough to insure you do not have any clearance left when the lifter is riding on the lift portion of the lobe.
The "30-30" cam has a .020" ramp x 1.5 theoretical rocker arm ratio = .030" lash maximum measured at the valve tip. The problem comes in when the ACTUAL rocker arm ratio due to production tolerances is maybe only around 1.35 and you try to use the factory lash spec to set the valves. The .020" cam clearance ramp x 1.35 ACTUAL rocker arm ratio = .027" valvetrain lash clearance MAX at the valve tip but you set it to .030" because the manual told you to do it. You end up with all the clearance taken out when you are past the clearance ramp and .003" into the lift ramp.
Now you are slamming the valve down at full lift ramp velocity. This hammering the heck out of the valvetrain and beating up the seat as all the slack is taken up at full lift ramp velocity and the valve is slaping down hard - a bad thing. The factory style stamped steel rocker arms are notorious for providing less than the theoretical 1.7 ratio (big block) or 1.5 ratio (small block) at lash point so if you are running the stock stamped rockers, you might be better off with a slightly tighter than stock lash. If you can measure your actual rocker arm ratio, we can calculate the new revised lash spec.
I hope this helps more than it confuses.
-Mark.
Thanks for the info. I've learned much from you and another responder. My car is a '69 Corvette 427, 4 speed, 390 hp. My wife purchased the car in 1971 and it went into backyard storage in 1983 when we became parents. I've been bringing it back to life this year now that our daughter is 24 and not as time and finance consuming as before.
Before her birth in 1983 I rebuilt the 427 using small port open chamber heads, Chevy street mechanical cam, original Q-Jet and manifold, headers, breakerless ignition, and 9.75 comp ratio due to gas at that time. It's a street car and not driven much.
I did the intial valve adjustment cold, with no. 1 cyl at TDC using .024 intake, .028 exhaust. Though I've learned more than I thought there was I'm not confused but now have more questions. May I ask you the following questions?
1. Do you set the lash when the lifter is on the base circle or the ramp? (Is the ramp beginning determined by slight beginning movement of valve
2. Are setting the lash on a cold engine?
3. Why not set the lash with engine hot and running?
4. If hot and running, would you use splatter gards? (Do they work?)
5. Would you set the lash engine hot / NOT running?
6. If set hot / not running, would cooling become an issue?
7. Will you please e-mail the "procedure" that you mention?
Many thanks for your precise and informative input. I will never race the car but I do want it to run RIGHT and for a long time. And I enjoy learning how to make that happen.
Sincerely, FRED / frintz
09-13-2008, 12:43 AM
#6
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Bill
Thanks for the info. I've learned much from you and another responder. My car is a '69 Corvette 427, 4 speed, 390 hp. My wife purchased the car in 1971 and it went into backyard storage in 1983 when we became parents. I've been bringing it back to life this year now that our daughter is 24 and not as time and finance consuming as before.
Before her birth in 1983 I rebuilt the 427 using small port open chamber heads, Chevy street mechanical cam, original Q-Jet and manifold, headers, breakerless ignition, and 9.75 comp ratio due to gas at that time. It's a street car and not driven much.
I did the intial valve adjustment cold, with no. 1 cyl at TDC using .024 intake, .028 exhaust. May I ask you the following questions:
1. Is your '69 a big block?
2. Did you ever "adjust while hot and running"?
3. If not, why not?
4. Do you know if oil splatter protectors really work?
5. Would you not adjust hot / not running because of changes due to cooling?
6. Have you measured max valve opening, marked that point, rotated crank to get to opposite side of cam (valve closed) and set lash there?
Again, thanks for you input, FRED/frintz
Thanks for the info. I've learned much from you and another responder. My car is a '69 Corvette 427, 4 speed, 390 hp. My wife purchased the car in 1971 and it went into backyard storage in 1983 when we became parents. I've been bringing it back to life this year now that our daughter is 24 and not as time and finance consuming as before.
Before her birth in 1983 I rebuilt the 427 using small port open chamber heads, Chevy street mechanical cam, original Q-Jet and manifold, headers, breakerless ignition, and 9.75 comp ratio due to gas at that time. It's a street car and not driven much.
I did the intial valve adjustment cold, with no. 1 cyl at TDC using .024 intake, .028 exhaust. May I ask you the following questions:
1. Is your '69 a big block?
2. Did you ever "adjust while hot and running"?
3. If not, why not?
4. Do you know if oil splatter protectors really work?
5. Would you not adjust hot / not running because of changes due to cooling?
6. Have you measured max valve opening, marked that point, rotated crank to get to opposite side of cam (valve closed) and set lash there?
Again, thanks for you input, FRED/frintz
09-13-2008, 03:34 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
[QUOTE=frintz;1567086936]
Fred,
I assume you are using the "143" street mechanical cam with that .024"/.028" lash spec.
1. Never set valve lash with the lifter on a ramp. It must be done while the lifter you are setting is on the base circle.
2. Cold lash settings are more convienient and less messy. The lash is theoreticaly supposed to be verified full hot and running but that can be difficult to pull off. I know people have set their valves cold, run the engine up to temp and then quickly ripped a valve cover off to check it hot and found little difference. You could measure it hot on one valve then let it cool overnight and measure again in the morning and see if you get any difference but unless you are realy getting the engine full hot I doubt you will see much change, if any. I have heard iron head/iron block engines can set the valves .002" looser at the most when setting the valves cold but I never do that personaly.
3. See above.
4. I have a set of splatter deflectors but have not used them in years. They help some but once you know how to set valves cold you never need them again. I would never use stamped steel stock type rockers anymore either so that is another reason I never use them. I have used the cast steel roller tips exclusively for some time.
5. No - see above.
6. I guess you are referring to the valvetrain cooling off while you are setting the valves - yes it will cool while you work. You could set one side hot then button it back together and drive it around to heat it all back up again, then pull off the other valve cover. What a PAIN!
Set them cold. 
7. I need you to send me a private messge that includes your email address. The procedure I have is in a text file that includes a diagram of the process and it can't be "cut and pasted" into a post here and still look legible.
If you knew for sure what your actual physical rocker arm ratio was vs the "theoretical" rocker arm ratio of 1.7:1 then we could make an adjustment in the lash spec that would account for the loose tolerances found in the factory rockers. We don't have that but if I were you, I would not set them any looser than the factory spec at all and I might be inclined to set them .003" tighter than specified just to see if you like it better that way. If it ran well and was noticeably quieter you can bet I would continue to run it that way.
The procedure that Duke wrote follows the firing order. You set the engine to a specific cylinder TDC and then adjust the intake valve for the previous cylinder in the firing order and adjust the exhaust valve for the next cylinder in the firing order. Once that is done you rotate the engine 90 degrees to get the next cylinder in the firing order up to TDC and repeat the sequence. The engine will go through 2 full rotations stopping at every 90 degrees to adjust all 16 valves. The idea is that for any given firing position, the intake valve in the previous cylinder in the firing order will in no way be close to a ramp and the exhaust valve for the next cylinder in the firing order will never be close to a ramp at that time.
You want to avoid setting a cylinder to TDC and then adjusting that cylinders intake and exhaust valves at that time. With some cam designs, the lifters will not be fully down on the base circle at that position and if you do set the valves there, the running lash will be too large and you can do damage to the valvetrain.
There are other ways to adjust valves but this is just one of them. I can send you a copy of the procedure that has a list of what valve to adjust at each different TDC position. Just send me a PM.
-Mark.
Thanks for the info. I've learned much from you and another responder. My car is a '69 Corvette 427, 4 speed, 390 hp. My wife purchased the car in 1971 and it went into backyard storage in 1983 when we became parents. I've been bringing it back to life this year now that our daughter is 24 and not as time and finance consuming as before.
Before her birth in 1983 I rebuilt the 427 using small port open chamber heads, Chevy street mechanical cam, original Q-Jet and manifold, headers, breakerless ignition, and 9.75 comp ratio due to gas at that time. It's a street car and not driven much.
I did the intial valve adjustment cold, with no. 1 cyl at TDC using .024 intake, .028 exhaust. Though I've learned more than I thought there was I'm not confused but now have more questions. May I ask you the following questions?
1. Do you set the lash when the lifter is on the base circle or the ramp? (Is the ramp beginning determined by slight beginning movement of valve
2. Are setting the lash on a cold engine?
3. Why not set the lash with engine hot and running?
4. If hot and running, would you use splatter gards? (Do they work?)
5. Would you set the lash engine hot / NOT running?
6. If set hot / not running, would cooling become an issue?
7. Will you please e-mail the "procedure" that you mention?
Many thanks for your precise and informative input. I will never race the car but I do want it to run RIGHT and for a long time. And I enjoy learning how to make that happen.
Sincerely, FRED / frintz
Before her birth in 1983 I rebuilt the 427 using small port open chamber heads, Chevy street mechanical cam, original Q-Jet and manifold, headers, breakerless ignition, and 9.75 comp ratio due to gas at that time. It's a street car and not driven much.
I did the intial valve adjustment cold, with no. 1 cyl at TDC using .024 intake, .028 exhaust. Though I've learned more than I thought there was I'm not confused but now have more questions. May I ask you the following questions?
1. Do you set the lash when the lifter is on the base circle or the ramp? (Is the ramp beginning determined by slight beginning movement of valve
2. Are setting the lash on a cold engine?
3. Why not set the lash with engine hot and running?
4. If hot and running, would you use splatter gards? (Do they work?)
5. Would you set the lash engine hot / NOT running?
6. If set hot / not running, would cooling become an issue?
7. Will you please e-mail the "procedure" that you mention?
Many thanks for your precise and informative input. I will never race the car but I do want it to run RIGHT and for a long time. And I enjoy learning how to make that happen.
Sincerely, FRED / frintz
I assume you are using the "143" street mechanical cam with that .024"/.028" lash spec.
1. Never set valve lash with the lifter on a ramp. It must be done while the lifter you are setting is on the base circle.
2. Cold lash settings are more convienient and less messy. The lash is theoreticaly supposed to be verified full hot and running but that can be difficult to pull off. I know people have set their valves cold, run the engine up to temp and then quickly ripped a valve cover off to check it hot and found little difference. You could measure it hot on one valve then let it cool overnight and measure again in the morning and see if you get any difference but unless you are realy getting the engine full hot I doubt you will see much change, if any. I have heard iron head/iron block engines can set the valves .002" looser at the most when setting the valves cold but I never do that personaly.
3. See above.
4. I have a set of splatter deflectors but have not used them in years. They help some but once you know how to set valves cold you never need them again. I would never use stamped steel stock type rockers anymore either so that is another reason I never use them. I have used the cast steel roller tips exclusively for some time.
5. No - see above.
6. I guess you are referring to the valvetrain cooling off while you are setting the valves - yes it will cool while you work. You could set one side hot then button it back together and drive it around to heat it all back up again, then pull off the other valve cover. What a PAIN!
Set them cold. 7. I need you to send me a private messge that includes your email address. The procedure I have is in a text file that includes a diagram of the process and it can't be "cut and pasted" into a post here and still look legible.
If you knew for sure what your actual physical rocker arm ratio was vs the "theoretical" rocker arm ratio of 1.7:1 then we could make an adjustment in the lash spec that would account for the loose tolerances found in the factory rockers. We don't have that but if I were you, I would not set them any looser than the factory spec at all and I might be inclined to set them .003" tighter than specified just to see if you like it better that way. If it ran well and was noticeably quieter you can bet I would continue to run it that way.
The procedure that Duke wrote follows the firing order. You set the engine to a specific cylinder TDC and then adjust the intake valve for the previous cylinder in the firing order and adjust the exhaust valve for the next cylinder in the firing order. Once that is done you rotate the engine 90 degrees to get the next cylinder in the firing order up to TDC and repeat the sequence. The engine will go through 2 full rotations stopping at every 90 degrees to adjust all 16 valves. The idea is that for any given firing position, the intake valve in the previous cylinder in the firing order will in no way be close to a ramp and the exhaust valve for the next cylinder in the firing order will never be close to a ramp at that time.
You want to avoid setting a cylinder to TDC and then adjusting that cylinders intake and exhaust valves at that time. With some cam designs, the lifters will not be fully down on the base circle at that position and if you do set the valves there, the running lash will be too large and you can do damage to the valvetrain.
There are other ways to adjust valves but this is just one of them. I can send you a copy of the procedure that has a list of what valve to adjust at each different TDC position. Just send me a PM.
-Mark.
09-13-2008, 05:04 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
I can't answer your question on the BB motor but here is the latest version of the article:
http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_...n/SBvlvadj.pdf
http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_...adjustment.pdf
If you need to ask John Hinckley or Duke williams questions regarding their info John posts under forum name JohnZ in the C1/C2 section. Duke no longer visits this forum but he is on the NCRS forum.
http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_...n/SBvlvadj.pdf
http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_...adjustment.pdf
If you need to ask John Hinckley or Duke williams questions regarding their info John posts under forum name JohnZ in the C1/C2 section. Duke no longer visits this forum but he is on the NCRS forum.
09-13-2008, 07:44 AM
#9
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Watkinsville, GA and Glen Cove, NY
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Bill
Thanks for the info. I've learned much from you and another responder. My car is a '69 Corvette 427, 4 speed, 390 hp. My wife purchased the car in 1971 and it went into backyard storage in 1983 when we became parents. I've been bringing it back to life this year now that our daughter is 24 and not as time and finance consuming as before.
Before her birth in 1983 I rebuilt the 427 using small port open chamber heads, Chevy street mechanical cam, original Q-Jet and manifold, headers, breakerless ignition, and 9.75 comp ratio due to gas at that time. It's a street car and not driven much.
I did the intial valve adjustment cold, with no. 1 cyl at TDC using .024 intake, .028 exhaust. May I ask you the following questions:
1. Is your '69 a big block?
2. Did you ever "adjust while hot and running"?
3. If not, why not?
4. Do you know if oil splatter protectors really work?
5. Would you not adjust hot / not running because of changes due to cooling?
6. Have you measured max valve opening, marked that point, rotated crank to get to opposite side of cam (valve closed) and set lash there?
Again, thanks for you input, FRED/frintz
Thanks for the info. I've learned much from you and another responder. My car is a '69 Corvette 427, 4 speed, 390 hp. My wife purchased the car in 1971 and it went into backyard storage in 1983 when we became parents. I've been bringing it back to life this year now that our daughter is 24 and not as time and finance consuming as before.
Before her birth in 1983 I rebuilt the 427 using small port open chamber heads, Chevy street mechanical cam, original Q-Jet and manifold, headers, breakerless ignition, and 9.75 comp ratio due to gas at that time. It's a street car and not driven much.
I did the intial valve adjustment cold, with no. 1 cyl at TDC using .024 intake, .028 exhaust. May I ask you the following questions:
1. Is your '69 a big block?
2. Did you ever "adjust while hot and running"?
3. If not, why not?
4. Do you know if oil splatter protectors really work?
5. Would you not adjust hot / not running because of changes due to cooling?
6. Have you measured max valve opening, marked that point, rotated crank to get to opposite side of cam (valve closed) and set lash there?
Again, thanks for you input, FRED/frintz
Fred, yes my 69 is a big block. I have never adjusted hot and running. What I did once was run the car and shut it off and immediately adjust one pair of valves to spec, .024 in my case. I then check the lash on those valves after the car sat overnight. I found they were both .006 tighter. So now I had a cold lash spec. Mind you, my car has aluminum heads so the change would be greater hot to cold than an iron head, iron block combo. I never tried the splatter protectors so can't help you there. I have never done it as you say in #6. I always just start at #1 cylinder. Bump the engine until the exhaust starts to open, and adjust the intake. Bump it until the intake is half way or more closed and adjust the exhaust. I just work may way through each one that way. Never had a problem and they really don't change, although I am running a Jesel shaft system. I would imagine that with your iron heads and block, your cold lash will be very close to the hot lash.
Bill
Last edited by 69ttop502; 09-13-2008 at 07:50 AM.
09-13-2008, 09:07 AM
#10
Le Mans Master
I think the reason they had that special procedure for the 30-30 is because it has such long clearance ramps. With your 69 cam I would just use the EOIC method. When the exhaust starts to open adjust the intake. When the intake is nearly closed, adjust the exhaust. Works for me on my 69 solid and the 62 with the old Duntov cam.
Bill
Bill
I set mine the same way. EOIC. LS-7 454 crate motor. setting the valves with it running is not really an option. Tried it once and all I got was a couple of feeler gauge blades that had donuts punched out of them. The big valve springs just chopped them up.
09-13-2008, 09:11 AM
#11
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
09-13-2008, 09:38 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
I can't answer your question on the BB motor but here is the latest version of the article:
http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_...n/SBvlvadj.pdf
http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_...adjustment.pdf
If you need to ask John Hinckley or Duke williams questions regarding their info John posts under forum name JohnZ in the C1/C2 section. Duke no longer visits this forum but he is on the NCRS forum.
http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_...n/SBvlvadj.pdf
http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_...adjustment.pdf
If you need to ask John Hinckley or Duke williams questions regarding their info John posts under forum name JohnZ in the C1/C2 section. Duke no longer visits this forum but he is on the NCRS forum.
Maybe we could make them a CF "sticky"? -Mark.
09-13-2008, 10:59 AM
#13
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Use the factory specs and do it with the engine running..It,s messy and a real PITA but it,s almost fool proof all these other fancy methods will get you in the ball park but with todays oil,s a cam/valvetrain is going to wear out if not smack on!!
09-13-2008, 05:37 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
http://lbfun.com/Corvette/Tech/vettetech.html
09-13-2008, 08:26 PM
#15
I agree on the set one hot and then let it sit overnight and recheck in the morning. My alluminum head LS6 changes .006 from hot to cold. I was just at the pure stock muscle car drag race and was talking to copo pete with his 69 all alluminum ZL-1, and his motor grows by over .015 from cold to hot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09-14-2008, 01:12 AM
#16
Heel & Toe
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Solid Lifter Lash
Thanks to all of you who shared your expertise and opinions as to how solid lifter lash can be set. I was so inspired (and curious) that I purchased a set of rocker arm oil splatter shields and set the lash "Hot and Running". Now I know - to set the lash cold! Or hot NOT running. WHEW!! I believe that it is easier(for me), to make the settings consistent and accurate with the engine off using the methods that you guys suggested.
Thank you for your WILLINGNESS to share as well as WHAT you shared.
FRED /frintz
Thanks to all of you who shared your expertise and opinions as to how solid lifter lash can be set. I was so inspired (and curious) that I purchased a set of rocker arm oil splatter shields and set the lash "Hot and Running". Now I know - to set the lash cold! Or hot NOT running. WHEW!! I believe that it is easier(for me), to make the settings consistent and accurate with the engine off using the methods that you guys suggested.
Thank you for your WILLINGNESS to share as well as WHAT you shared.
FRED /frintz
09-14-2008, 01:29 AM
#17
Heel & Toe
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Solid Lifter Lash
Fred, yes my 69 is a big block. I have never adjusted hot and running. What I did once was run the car and shut it off and immediately adjust one pair of valves to spec, .024 in my case. I then check the lash on those valves after the car sat overnight. I found they were both .006 tighter. So now I had a cold lash spec. Mind you, my car has aluminum heads so the change would be greater hot to cold than an iron head, iron block combo. I never tried the splatter protectors so can't help you there. I have never done it as you say in #6. I always just start at #1 cylinder. Bump the engine until the exhaust starts to open, and adjust the intake. Bump it until the intake is half way or more closed and adjust the exhaust. I just work may way through each one that way. Never had a problem and they really don't change, although I am running a Jesel shaft system. I would imagine that with your iron heads and block, your cold lash will be very close to the hot lash.
Bill
Bill
Thanks much fo your input. I wrote a "Thanks to all" but I don't know how that will come out. Still learning to use this site. However, I did want to write to you and Mark as you replied first and most.
Your hot/cold measure is a good way to obtain the "truth".
As I said in my "Thanks all", I will reajust cold, not running, and then on to the next phase of bettering my 'vette.
Thanks
, FRED / frintz
09-14-2008, 01:41 AM
#18
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Solid Lifter Lash
[QUOTE=stingr69;1567087718]
Mark
Thanks to you and Bill (another great responder), for your input. I did write a "Thanks All' for everyone who replied to my message but you guys replied first and most.
Did you see my "Thanks All"? How do I send a "PM"? Now that I've had the "Hot and Running" experience, I look forward to a nice, cold and or hot NOT running adjustment stint.
Sincere thanks for the info
FRED / frintz
Fred,
I assume you are using the "143" street mechanical cam with that .024"/.028" lash spec.
1. Never set valve lash with the lifter on a ramp. It must be done while the lifter you are setting is on the base circle.
2. Cold lash settings are more convienient and less messy. The lash is theoreticaly supposed to be verified full hot and running but that can be difficult to pull off. I know people have set their valves cold, run the engine up to temp and then quickly ripped a valve cover off to check it hot and found little difference. You could measure it hot on one valve then let it cool overnight and measure again in the morning and see if you get any difference but unless you are realy getting the engine full hot I doubt you will see much change, if any. I have heard iron head/iron block engines can set the valves .002" looser at the most when setting the valves cold but I never do that personaly.
3. See above.
4. I have a set of splatter deflectors but have not used them in years. They help some but once you know how to set valves cold you never need them again. I would never use stamped steel stock type rockers anymore either so that is another reason I never use them. I have used the cast steel roller tips exclusively for some time.
5. No - see above.
6. I guess you are referring to the valvetrain cooling off while you are setting the valves - yes it will cool while you work. You could set one side hot then button it back together and drive it around to heat it all back up again, then pull off the other valve cover. What a PAIN! Set them cold.
7. I need you to send me a private messge that includes your email address. The procedure I have is in a text file that includes a diagram of the process and it can't be "cut and pasted" into a post here and still look legible.
If you knew for sure what your actual physical rocker arm ratio was vs the "theoretical" rocker arm ratio of 1.7:1 then we could make an adjustment in the lash spec that would account for the loose tolerances found in the factory rockers. We don't have that but if I were you, I would not set them any looser than the factory spec at all and I might be inclined to set them .003" tighter than specified just to see if you like it better that way. If it ran well and was noticeably quieter you can bet I would continue to run it that way.
The procedure that Duke wrote follows the firing order. You set the engine to a specific cylinder TDC and then adjust the intake valve for the previous cylinder in the firing order and adjust the exhaust valve for the next cylinder in the firing order. Once that is done you rotate the engine 90 degrees to get the next cylinder in the firing order up to TDC and repeat the sequence. The engine will go through 2 full rotations stopping at every 90 degrees to adjust all 16 valves. The idea is that for any given firing position, the intake valve in the previous cylinder in the firing order will in no way be close to a ramp and the exhaust valve for the next cylinder in the firing order will never be close to a ramp at that time.
You want to avoid setting a cylinder to TDC and then adjusting that cylinders intake and exhaust valves at that time. With some cam designs, the lifters will not be fully down on the base circle at that position and if you do set the valves there, the running lash will be too large and you can do damage to the valvetrain.
There are other ways to adjust valves but this is just one of them. I can send you a copy of the procedure that has a list of what valve to adjust at each different TDC position. Just send me a PM.
-Mark.
I assume you are using the "143" street mechanical cam with that .024"/.028" lash spec.
1. Never set valve lash with the lifter on a ramp. It must be done while the lifter you are setting is on the base circle.
2. Cold lash settings are more convienient and less messy. The lash is theoreticaly supposed to be verified full hot and running but that can be difficult to pull off. I know people have set their valves cold, run the engine up to temp and then quickly ripped a valve cover off to check it hot and found little difference. You could measure it hot on one valve then let it cool overnight and measure again in the morning and see if you get any difference but unless you are realy getting the engine full hot I doubt you will see much change, if any. I have heard iron head/iron block engines can set the valves .002" looser at the most when setting the valves cold but I never do that personaly.
3. See above.
4. I have a set of splatter deflectors but have not used them in years. They help some but once you know how to set valves cold you never need them again. I would never use stamped steel stock type rockers anymore either so that is another reason I never use them. I have used the cast steel roller tips exclusively for some time.
5. No - see above.
6. I guess you are referring to the valvetrain cooling off while you are setting the valves - yes it will cool while you work. You could set one side hot then button it back together and drive it around to heat it all back up again, then pull off the other valve cover. What a PAIN!
Set them cold. 7. I need you to send me a private messge that includes your email address. The procedure I have is in a text file that includes a diagram of the process and it can't be "cut and pasted" into a post here and still look legible.
If you knew for sure what your actual physical rocker arm ratio was vs the "theoretical" rocker arm ratio of 1.7:1 then we could make an adjustment in the lash spec that would account for the loose tolerances found in the factory rockers. We don't have that but if I were you, I would not set them any looser than the factory spec at all and I might be inclined to set them .003" tighter than specified just to see if you like it better that way. If it ran well and was noticeably quieter you can bet I would continue to run it that way.
The procedure that Duke wrote follows the firing order. You set the engine to a specific cylinder TDC and then adjust the intake valve for the previous cylinder in the firing order and adjust the exhaust valve for the next cylinder in the firing order. Once that is done you rotate the engine 90 degrees to get the next cylinder in the firing order up to TDC and repeat the sequence. The engine will go through 2 full rotations stopping at every 90 degrees to adjust all 16 valves. The idea is that for any given firing position, the intake valve in the previous cylinder in the firing order will in no way be close to a ramp and the exhaust valve for the next cylinder in the firing order will never be close to a ramp at that time.
You want to avoid setting a cylinder to TDC and then adjusting that cylinders intake and exhaust valves at that time. With some cam designs, the lifters will not be fully down on the base circle at that position and if you do set the valves there, the running lash will be too large and you can do damage to the valvetrain.
There are other ways to adjust valves but this is just one of them. I can send you a copy of the procedure that has a list of what valve to adjust at each different TDC position. Just send me a PM.
-Mark.
Thanks to you and Bill (another great responder), for your input. I did write a "Thanks All' for everyone who replied to my message but you guys replied first and most.
Did you see my "Thanks All"? How do I send a "PM"? Now that I've had the "Hot and Running" experience, I look forward to a nice, cold and or hot NOT running adjustment stint.
Sincere thanks for the info
FRED / frintz
09-14-2008, 12:03 PM
#19
Tech Contributor
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09-14-2008, 01:08 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
The only thing you get by setting solids with the engine running is a set of smashed feeler gauges. There is no reason at all to set solid lash with a running engine - Ive never done it in 30 years of racing, and I've never seen any knowledgeable engine builder or racer set solids with a running engine. On dyno pulls, the engine is given a good warm-up run, shut down, and the lash is set on the fresh-run hot engine - not running. Once set, the lash is good.