81vette

Over the past week I've been cleaning up the frame for painting while the body is on the car, but the more I progress the more discouraged I become. I know that I'll never be able to clean and paint the whole frame with the body on. I originally wanted to use POR15, but now I'm thinking about pulling the body so that I can powder coat the frame, replace body bushings, etc.

My questions are: What is a good source of information for pulling off the body? How many hours can I expect to spend on this? And what am I really getting myself into? Can this be a one man job, as I have no help except for the encouragement of my pregnant wife? Any and all suggestions/thoughts appreciated.

Mark

Lohkay

As you can see form the links in my sign, I did just that...so here are my comments...

First of all, it doesn't take that long to remove the body. I'd say, if you know what you're doing, it can be done in 8-12hrs. Front and back bumper covers are the hardest to remove...then its just a bunch of bolts and wires to disconnect. Interior stays intact (Only need to remove the seat belts and steering).

The only problem I can see you having, is to lift the body off the frame...I used a backo but its not everyone that has that....Some people did it with a bunch of friends but they had to remove a lot of stuff to reduce weight.

If you have any specific questions, just ask, I'll answer the best I can.

Chris@VetteFinders

You sound like you are at the exact point I was when I made up my mind to pull the body. I was thinking the same thing about the areas I couldn't reach. There are too many, aren't there? I think 8-12 hours is probably a good ballpark. Putting it back on will take easily more than twice as long because of the things you'll replace or break, or "while I'm at it". Check out my project in my sig below to see what you are getting into.

Lindsay Porter's book on Restoring your Corvette and the Assembly manual are THE best sources. I would also buy a Haynes manual for torque specs.


[Modified by Rhys, 2:20 PM 1/23/2002]

454Big

Well, I will lift the body this weekend.

We plan to document this with video- and digicams.
I already offered ksbunting to burn a CD and mail it.
If you are interested......

Chris@VetteFinders

Boy video would be cool :cool:

mwooldridge

Mark,

I started the frame off rebuild also. I was able to prepare the body for removal myself and with the help of my dad we built a lift which looks looks like a swing set stand and I used a strap and a hoist to lift the body off and roll the chasis out. The requires room for the body and the chasis. You might be able to lift car high enough to still work on the chasis. Here is a link I found that lists the things to thing about to remove the body. http://www.yl-gazette.com/tech/mackay.htm I also went the powder coating route. If you want it to last, powder coat it.

Let me know if you have any questions I might be able to help with.

Mark W.

81vette

Thanks to everyone for the replies and pictures. Below are some more random thoughts and questions.

454Big, I am interested in the video.

I was thinking that I could buy the body straps that I've seen from one of the vendors, and use the rafters over the garage to pull the body up. Any idea what the weight of the body is?

After I get the body off I'll put it on the body dolly shown on Rhys site and roll it to the other side of the garage. Rhys, do you have the demensions for the dolly that you used?

What was the cost of the frame blasting and powder coating? Is this stronger than POR15? I think I read someone on the forum acid dipped their frame to remove the rust from inside the frame. How do you protect the inside of the frame from future rust?

Hopefully I can find someone in the Yellow Pages here locally that can do the acid dip and powder coating. How did you guys go about finding someone in your area to perform this work?

Mark

Chris@VetteFinders

Make sure you read the fine print.

My cost to powder coat: $400, sandblast was supposed to be included. It wasn't: $125, long story which I will skip.

Body weight: around 800 pounds

You can get a pump sprayer to coat the inside of the frame. I would call some local restoration shops and ask for a recommendation on powder coating shops.


http://vettefinders.com/Rhys/resources.cfm




[Modified by Rhys, 7:37 PM 1/23/2002]

78Vette-SA

Mark,

Just a word from the other school. All though I agree if you want it done right and to last a long long time, body off is the only way to go. You can however achieve pretty decent results with the body on. It really depends on what you want to get out of it.

Of course with the body on, you are not going to get the upper part of the frame rails. In my case, I ripped out the front and rear suspension and was able to get most of the frame. I used rustoleum at the time but sometimes wished I had used POR-15. Either way, 3 years later and it still looks great and I was back up and running in the spring (mine was a winter project).

Just thought I would mention it because taking the body off alone is a pretty decent job. I'm sure you could do it as others have, but it can end up being a bigger job than you thought.

I've also seen where some have put the car up high on jackstands, removed the body mounts, steering, etc., then take the wheels off the frame. Then support the body and lower the frame to the ground, sitting on the rotors. they then just rolled the car out from underneath on the rotors.

Just a couple of other ideas to think about.

Chris@VetteFinders

I agree with Joe. He did an awesome job without removing his body. I really don't think I would have achieved anything close to what he did without removing the body though. I just felt I needed room to work.

You should check out his site and look at what he achieved before you decide.

You sure you can't find 5 other friends to help you for 30 minutes?


[Modified by Rhys, 7:48 PM 1/23/2002]

81vette

78Vette-SA,

Thanks for the info, and BTW your frame looks really good. I've seen your pictures before and they were the inspiration for my original plans to clean-up the frame and paint with POR-15 while the body was on. However, what really got me to thinking about a frame-off was all the other plans that I have for this car in addition to the frame. My ultimate plans are to do a complete restoration of the car. I thought about just doing part of it now and part of it later, but everything has snowballed in the last month or so to the point that I think I should just bite the bullet and start it all now. It's like I wanted to do one thing and then I get to looking and decide that I should do this, and then this won't look good unless I do that, and while I'm at it..... And now I'm at this point with all kinds of mixed emotions. Just the thought of no car for the next year or two hurts. But the thought of having to do the same work twice hurts too.

Here is a list of projects that I had originally planned: My plan for 2002 was to replace the original stock drive line with a 427SB and TKO tranny, and detail the front half of the frame while the engine and trans were out. In 2003 I planned to remove the complete rear assembly and send it off to Van Steels for a higher gear ratio and reconditioning of the carrier, halfshafts, and get offset trailing arms for wider tires. Then at that time I'd would replace the gas and brake lines. Replace the body bushings and bolts, and finish cleaning and painting the back half of the frame.

With all of this work it seems to me that it would be easier if I just combined it all into one big project and start by removing the body from the car. With the body off the frame I can measure and fabricate a new tranny mount for the TKO, shorten the driveshaft, remove the engine and detail the engine compartment, remove the rear assembly, and replace the lines and body mounts, and detail the frame easier. Do ya'll think this is the right thing to do given my plans? I appreciate all the feedback and information you guys are providing. This is a big undertaking, and it helps for me to talk with you guys before I make a final commitment.

Mark


[Modified by 81vette, 8:59 PM 1/23/2002]

mwooldridge

I spent about $70 to have the frame sand blasted and another $400 to have it powder coated and I also had alot of the misc. parts coated also (like bumper brackets, cross members, radiator support, etc.) it was another $300 for the rest of the 20 or so misc parts. They were able to blast up in the frame a bit and them they could get the powder coating inside the frame also. I am not sure if the por-15 is any stronger or not, definitely would be cheaper but much more work.

Interesting enough, my 79 frame had only a slight bit of rust around the 4th body mount on the drivers side (because water got trapped by the rubber bushing), in which we installed a plate and drilled a new hole. I think if the car is not driven in the salt and kept clean, there is not reason it shouldn't last another 23 years.

john's '81 mouse

Suggest you contact C3 forum member Dalannex, as he just completed a frame off(actually replaced the frame, if I remember correctly) on his '81 last year. I believe he just finished, or is finishing painting it this year. He does most all of the work on his car, and believe you could learn a lot about what to expect by talking to him, if you decide to tackle this job.

UKPaul

Definately have a chat with Dallanex. I'm doing the same as you with my '81 at the moment (I'll be cleaning the front X-member area in about 1 hour), but no way am I lifting the body off (while-I'm-at-it-itus will result in at least 2 years work & a full restoration :( ). I want the Vette on the road for the summer & none of this was planned anyway! Have done the frame from no.4 body mount back, which was an easy job, & got all the brackets, etc powder coated. Used POR15 on the frame & it looks good. But no way is POR15 as tough as properly applied powder coat. The worst part of painting the frame with the body on isn't getting to it all, it's getting all of the 20 years worth of underseal & crud off of it. Once the POR15 is dry I'm spraying the inside of the frame with Waxoyl.
Good luck with whatever you do (but if you do take the body off, it WILL snowball beyond your wildest dreams :lol: )
Paul

69L71

Lets not forget guys and gals, that GM just dipped their frames in the cheapest, nastiest paint they could find, and your frame lasted for 30 years of year round daily grind... I get a kick out of the overkill of powdercoating or POR on a frame of a car that is now seeing the easiest part of its existence because 'I want it to last'. I'd venture a guess that few, if any, members are likely to do a body off on their corvettes and then start driving them through rustbelt snowstorms. Your body-off project will wind up being your baby, and will rarely see more than a light sprinkle...

I've done 2 body-off 69s. In both cases I had the frames sand blasted and epoxy primed. When I got them home I spray painted them. The first car got PPG Semi-gloss enamel with urethane hardeners sprayed with my Binks #7. The second one got Krylon polyurethane semi-flat black (yes, from a can!). Both are sealed and finished 100 times better than the factory did, so I completely expect to be able to pull the bodies off in 30 years and they'll need little more than a washing to look like new. My friend did his 64 and 65 by sandblasting and using regular $2.99/can krylon right on the bare metal. 10 and 15 years later both cars look outstanding and have no corrosion.

I have no problem with powdercoating. Its a modern, convenient, effective method of painting, and I think it looks terrific; but if you think you need it to keep the frame in good, rust-free shape you're sniffing glue. Scope your project for what you think you'll need. I know I saved a good $800 (based on local prices) on each car by NOT powdercoating, and I know my frames are good for as long as I'll be alive...

Good luck!

454Big

69L71,

you have good statements, but I would like to see that you don´t take in consideration the NEED but also the WANT.

Of course you don´t need to do the powder, but hey, if you have gone so far - why not?
I´m pretty sure you´re right with your opinion, but when I do my frame I WANT to have it coated, regardless of the need or not!

Hopefully some more members can understand this attitude.....

In Germany we have a shop that sells a special grease to be heated and then blasted inside the frame.
I did this procedure with my convertible top front bow and the tack strip bow - worked pretty fine!
I also will do it with my frame - again: probably over-engineered, but I WANT it!!! :yesnod:

69L71

Never meant to imply that if someone wanted powdercoating that they shouldn't do it. I thought I made that pretty clear. Every car is personal and everybody likes to do what they want. All I'm saying is if you're looking for protection from rust/corrosion powdercoating is overkill. It looks terrific.

Chris@VetteFinders

OK, cool, because I was thinking of taking the body back off, stripping off the powder coat and going with spray paint instead. :jester

69L71

LMAO! :lol: :lol: :lol: :yesnod:

UKPaul

69L71,
I hear what you're saying, but it really depends on where you live. Here in the UK (& probably Germany) we get no choice but to drive in the rain. The big plus with powder coat is that it is resistant to chipping. I once sprayed 2 m/cycle frames with a good spray paint. A year later both still looked good but my customers were really p'd off because the paint underneath was getting chipped from stones etc. The bare metal was then rusting & causing the surrounding paint to flake off. I had to completely strip both bikes & get the frames powder coated FOC :mad Powder coating does cost a lot more & getting all the shot blast out of the frame is a PITA, but it will last for years.
So, I figure that if you've got as far as a bare frame then it would make sense to go the extra yard & powdercoat it (then you could drive it in snowstorms without any worries about the frame ;) ).
As you say, if the car is used in a good climate & rarely sees rain/salt then normal paint, especially the epoxy primers & urethane paints that you used, will probably be fine. Many years ago I had my own bike frame painted by a large aircraft company (back door job). I asked for powder coat but they used aircraft quality epoxy primers & some sort of urethane top coat. Looked really good & lasted well for about 5 years before rust spots started to appear along with chips (chipped black paint with a bright yellow primer looks good!). I got it blasted off & had it powder coated. Over 10 years later, riding in everything the weather throws at us, the powder coat looks as good as the day it was done. As with everything, you pays your money & you takes your choice.
:cheers: