View Poll Results: OK which motor would you drop in and why??
ZZ502, slightly detuned (not quite so nasti)
0
0%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll
zz383 vs zz502 vs 502HO poll, let em rip!
#21
Have you thought about one of the ZZ short blocks and a cam,heads and intake
I have a zz4 and this is what I wish I would have done.
Read the warranty for any GM crate engine very very closely
I have a zz4 and this is what I wish I would have done.
Read the warranty for any GM crate engine very very closely
Last edited by ZZ71S; 05-05-2009 at 08:27 AM.
#22
Le Mans Master
550 torque @3250......red line@6200.....any questions??.....BBZZ 502.....BB ZZ 454 500 torque....490 hp.....red line 6200........
#24
Instructor
Thread Starter
Member Since: Apr 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Horses for courses" as they say..
You want reliable low down grunt... get the big block.
They were designed for trucks after all.
By the way, the ZZ383 doesn't match a 502 in off idle torque stakes.
The ZZ502 has the torque, but gets asthmatic as it nears 5000 rpm.
And that's fine. Just pick the next gear and away you go.
And that's OK.
It's just that some of us buy and build up our vettes as real performance cars, not daily commuters, and many of us like the sound of a chev doing what it does best at 6000+.
You want reliable low down grunt... get the big block.
They were designed for trucks after all.
By the way, the ZZ383 doesn't match a 502 in off idle torque stakes.
The ZZ502 has the torque, but gets asthmatic as it nears 5000 rpm.
And that's fine. Just pick the next gear and away you go.
And that's OK.
It's just that some of us buy and build up our vettes as real performance cars, not daily commuters, and many of us like the sound of a chev doing what it does best at 6000+.
I'm not looking to run around town at 8k just to hear a SB scream. I have a 5.7 Hemi that will pull well past 7500 but the bottom end won't take it so she limited at 6250.
The definition of "real performance cars" varies with the user, this vette will never see a road course and will be used mainly for handing out but whoopins on the street and occasionaly grudge night at the drag strip. Freight train pull is what I'm after and the sooner it comes in the better. I don't care much if it does not pull past 6k as that's tight enough for me anyway.
Good numbers but the TQ peak is to high for what I'm after.
However I do want that BB old school look when I pop the hood.
$6k + a cam and she's just this side if a ZZ502 and I leave 2k in my pocket for that billet pulley set up from March or Billet specialties.
Gonna be hard not to go that route.
#25
Race Director
Member Since: Jan 2000
Location: Corsicana, Tx
Posts: 12,607
Received 1,875 Likes
on
913 Posts
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
C2 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
2017 C2 of Year Finalist
If you're going to all the trouble to go BB...might as well get a good one.
Find a builder doing 540-555's....get good heads on it..and cut back on the cam. The cam is what will give you all the manners....and an extra 40+ cubes is HUGE! They look the same on the outside and you end up with a better block and internals.
The ZZ502's are anemic to me unless you add a good cam etc. I sold my old Camaro to a buddy less my iron headed oval port 427 with a nice little flat tappet cam. The 427 would walk all over the 502 all day long. It's dead by 5200 rpm.
Once you move into the larger motors, you will soon forget all that *it's all about TQ..and low rpm TQ*. You will quickly find that TQ at higher RPM is a LOT easier to control...a LOT more fun...and a LOT faster!! 6500-7000 rpm is nothing for these type motors with a decent valvetrain in them. There's a lot of performance in that extra 1000 rpm!
JIM
Find a builder doing 540-555's....get good heads on it..and cut back on the cam. The cam is what will give you all the manners....and an extra 40+ cubes is HUGE! They look the same on the outside and you end up with a better block and internals.
The ZZ502's are anemic to me unless you add a good cam etc. I sold my old Camaro to a buddy less my iron headed oval port 427 with a nice little flat tappet cam. The 427 would walk all over the 502 all day long. It's dead by 5200 rpm.
Once you move into the larger motors, you will soon forget all that *it's all about TQ..and low rpm TQ*. You will quickly find that TQ at higher RPM is a LOT easier to control...a LOT more fun...and a LOT faster!! 6500-7000 rpm is nothing for these type motors with a decent valvetrain in them. There's a lot of performance in that extra 1000 rpm!
JIM
#26
Le Mans Master
ZZ502 but it needs a bigger cam. GM's cams are all on the small side.
#27
Instructor
Thread Starter
Member Since: Apr 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am seeing a consistent mantra of the ZZ motors needing bigger cams, with the factory cam in a ZZ502, what is the idle like? A little chop is fine but it needs to pull enough vacuum to run the brakes ect.
Maybe I am overestimating how radical the idle is in these things??
Maybe I am overestimating how radical the idle is in these things??
#28
Le Mans Master
I am seeing a consistent mantra of the ZZ motors needing bigger cams, with the factory cam in a ZZ502, what is the idle like? A little chop is fine but it needs to pull enough vacuum to run the brakes ect.
Maybe I am overestimating how radical the idle is in these things??
Maybe I am overestimating how radical the idle is in these things??
Take a look at this 630hp 502 build and see how mild that cam is as well.
http://www.gilbertracingparts.com/Ch...timate_502.cfm
More engine ideas here:
http://www.gilbertracingparts.com/start.cfm
#29
Instructor
Thread Starter
Member Since: Apr 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The ZZ502 cam specs out a 224/234@.050" lift. That is a street cam for a 350/383. A 502 will calm that cam right down. There is a reason that the ZZ502 has a 5800 rpm and peaks at 5200 rpm, not enough cam.
Take a look at this 630hp 502 build and see how mild that cam is as well.
http://www.gilbertracingparts.com/Ch...timate_502.cfm
More engine ideas here:
http://www.gilbertracingparts.com/start.cfm
Take a look at this 630hp 502 build and see how mild that cam is as well.
http://www.gilbertracingparts.com/Ch...timate_502.cfm
More engine ideas here:
http://www.gilbertracingparts.com/start.cfm
#30
Le Mans Master
I am seeing a consistent mantra of the ZZ motors needing bigger cams, with the factory cam in a ZZ502, what is the idle like? A little chop is fine but it needs to pull enough vacuum to run the brakes ect.
Maybe I am overestimating how radical the idle is in these things??
Maybe I am overestimating how radical the idle is in these things??
Last edited by midyearvette; 05-05-2009 at 02:35 PM.
#31
Instructor
Thread Starter
Member Since: Apr 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And that sums it up pretty good for me, if I can't keep a $6k 490hp 454 hooked up, why spend $12k just to not be able to hook up a 625HP 550 or whatever.
It seems the ZZ454 will do everything I want and have plenty of room for more HP later on, for $2k or more less than the next BB option.
I DO want the aluminum heads and it seems that getting them on the ZZ454 is about 1k less than getting a short block and buying a pair so it's a good value from that standpoint to.
The ZZ454 just seems like the way I'll go, drop a 502 cam in it for a bit more breathing and maybe a different intake and call it good.
Thanks to 3JsVette for the suggestion!
It seems the ZZ454 will do everything I want and have plenty of room for more HP later on, for $2k or more less than the next BB option.
I DO want the aluminum heads and it seems that getting them on the ZZ454 is about 1k less than getting a short block and buying a pair so it's a good value from that standpoint to.
The ZZ454 just seems like the way I'll go, drop a 502 cam in it for a bit more breathing and maybe a different intake and call it good.
Thanks to 3JsVette for the suggestion!
#32
Race Director
And that sums it up pretty good for me, if I can't keep a $6k 490hp 454 hooked up, why spend $12k just to not be able to hook up a 625HP 550 or whatever.
It seems the ZZ454 will do everything I want and have plenty of room for more HP later on, for $2k or more less than the next BB option.
I DO want the aluminum heads and it seems that getting them on the ZZ454 is about 1k less than getting a short block and buying a pair so it's a good value from that standpoint to.
The ZZ454 just seems like the way I'll go, drop a 502 cam in it for a bit more breathing and maybe a different intake and call it good.
Thanks to 3JsVette for the suggestion!
It seems the ZZ454 will do everything I want and have plenty of room for more HP later on, for $2k or more less than the next BB option.
I DO want the aluminum heads and it seems that getting them on the ZZ454 is about 1k less than getting a short block and buying a pair so it's a good value from that standpoint to.
The ZZ454 just seems like the way I'll go, drop a 502 cam in it for a bit more breathing and maybe a different intake and call it good.
Thanks to 3JsVette for the suggestion!
Good luck with what ever you decide.
#33
Instructor
Thread Starter
Member Since: Apr 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, I am still looking at a 502 short block with a top end kit, it'd put the 502 around 600HP for the same money, (a bit less actually) as the ZZ502 Turnkey Crate motor.
BUT that takes me back to getting the HP to the street.
Well at least I have solidly decided to go Big Block, that's progress!
BUT that takes me back to getting the HP to the street.
Well at least I have solidly decided to go Big Block, that's progress!
#36
Instructor
Thread Starter
Member Since: Apr 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ZZ502 with Edelbrock performer TE kit
600/600 at $7600.00
ZZ454 with same top end kit (for it)
540/?? (I'd assume at least 540 ft lbs) at $6500
$1100.00 diff in price and 75 less HP/TQ (give or take)
I wish it was $2k diff, then it'd be easier to decide but I am leaning towards the 454 and putting the rest towards a fuel injection set up for it.
Big454, how does that 600/600 stay hooked up? Can you actually use the power or is it just too much to get to the ground?
Same question to anybody else in the 500/500 + range.
I need a beer to help me think!
#37
Burning Brakes
More than that power level, and you need to learn respect.
You need to learn that the pedal on the right has more than two positions!
600 horses can only be tamed by judicious use of your right foot.
Isn't it better to know there's more power than you really need.