starbai

I want it to ride and feel like a newer car...

I'm trying to research what others have done what works and what doesn't and educate my self on the components and whats best for it.

The car will never see the track, its simply for street cruising. I dont have any problem throwing some money at it, I just dont want to spend money where it will be useless.

One of my major requirements are that I would really like to be able to lower the ride height of the car, and it still ride well after I've done so. Cutting coils isn't an option as a result.

I'm used to honda's and I know suspension components of newer cars but I'm not sure I understand the terminology of what is available for our C3's. Its much simpler these days, buy a set of coilovers throw them on, adjust and call it a day. But the C3's just didn't have as advanced of suspensions as C4+'s did and would like to take this opportunity to really give it a kick in the pants in the suspension dept.

For example I see a lot of people installing Seeroid's Rack n' Pinion Steering System....

What exactly would this do for my 81? I originally thought this was for people that didn't originally have power steering but I'm thinking thats not the case.

Can anyone educate me?

I'm going through VB&P's catalog right now trying to look through thier packages and see what they have to offer.

Attfay Elleybay

Steeroids or C4 conversion.
Bilstein shocks and 17" rims are supposed to help a lot.

gatorbcn

Here's what I did with my '74:

Stage 1 -

I upgraded the rear suspension with a VB&P mono-spring/Smart Struts/offset trailing arms and installed QA1 single adjustable shocks. The front remained stock. There was a noticeable "seat of the pants" improvement in the ride of the car for not a lot of money (I am not including the trailing arms as part of the suspension upgrade cost).

Stage 2 -

I upgraded the front suspension to QA1 single adjustable semi-coil overs. A little bit of work to install with the stock a-arms (had to do some cutting and grinding). Again, nice upgrade to the ride and handling of the car for a "minimal" investment. Disappointed with the ability to really get the car lower in the front . . .

Stage 3 -

This has been my winter project (that still isn't done). In order to really get the front dropped where I wanted it (but still keeping all of the suspension geometry right), I purchased tubular a-arms, drop spindles and steering rod linkage from TRZ Motorsport. The new drop spindles have required changing the front bearings and brake rotor set-up - the parts have been gathered and I hope to have it done before the fall. This has turned into a pretty big project.

I also added QA1 coil overs to the rear. Started with a QA1 coil over mounting kit and had to fabricate new mounting points for the coil overs and struts. I probably would have purchased one of Vansteel's kits if I didn't already have the trailing arms.

The rearend is pretty easy to upgrade (coil overs notwithstanding). The front is a little different story, though I think you can find threads about what people have done with theirs. I also think that switching to 17" rims/tires can make a difference, as well as upgrading the sway bars. Good luck!

Gordonm

Your C3 will never handle and feel like a new car. I have just about everything VB has in their catalog on mine. Steeroids included. It handles way better and the ride is better and it is fully adjustable. Both ride height and spring rate are adjustable. I would still say it does not hold a candle to the ride of a C5 or C6 car. The technology is just not there on the C3. You can put a custom tube frame under your car that accepts C5 components but that is really expensive. I have riden in one of those and it is much better but still lacks the refinement of the newer cars. The worst thing is to just throw components at it. Get a matched suspension system so it handles and rides good.

76yellow

I've been doing a frame off resto on a 68 BB for almost 3 years now. When I was at the frame & drive train stage I was advised by forum members to go with composite springs front & rear instead of putting money into rack & pinion steering. So thats what I've done. I also added power steering & power brakes & a 2004R tranny. I finally got the car put together (interior & some primer on) it so I could take it for a drive. Has'nt been on the road in 20 years. I can't say that I've run it through any paces like a nice curvy road at a good rate of speed but the little bit that I've driven it I like it. I have another 68 BB, #s matching, & it's much more fun to drive than that one. This is my 2 cents but I'm sure you will get much more input here. This is a GREAT place for ideas & advice !

682XLR8

Just for street cruising the VBP Grand Touring Suspension is a good choice. I'm running this system with the rear mono-leaf and Bilstien Sports on my 68 & I'm very happy with it
You might ask VBP if they can make a set of front drop coils that will lower the front to the height you want

Ganey

See http://ganeys.home.sprynet.com/77facts.htm for C3 high performance FE-7 sus. option handling. Some do not like the FE-7 ride.
Not an issue to me!
The primary advantage C4 had over C3 was the larger wheels & tires.

Many of us replace the steel rear spring w/ VB&P composite which saves weight (& some do for a better ride).
You are doing good going through the VB&P catalog. It sounds like VB&P rear spring & the VB&P front composite spring setup would be a great start for you.

Most newer cars like Hondas have a very simple suspension. When Toyota did a front suspension similar to the one on C3 on the Supra they ran ads! Check out unequal length A-frames or double wishbone.
Hope this helps.

Ganey

PS
I have the high performance FE-7 [also called the Gymkhana (or slalom)]sus. option w/ VB&P rear spring. Front spring rate is 550.

VB&P has a front 550 coil they say lowers front 1". The reason I mentioned the VB&P front composite setup was it sounded like you would like adjustability & better ride.

jb78L-82

I have done the following to my 78 L-82 4 Speed over 26 years and the difference between the car like it was, stock and OEM, versus today is night and day:

Front:

1. 550 replacement Mid America springs, 1 inch shorter than stock
2. Replaced all ball joints, tie rod ends, idler arm etc.
3. 1 1/8 inch OEM sway bar with poly mounting and end link bushings
4. Bilstein heavy duty shocks with poly bushings
5. Poly upper and lower control arm bushings.
6. 17 in SLP rims with 255/45/17 ZR Kuhmos

Rear:

1. Composite 360 spring with poly mounting cushions
2. Competition strut rods with heim joints, no bushings
3. Bilstein Sport shocks
4.SLP 17 inch rims with 255/50/17 ZR Kuhmos
5. 3/4 rear OEM type sway bar with poly mounting bushings

Still to do:

1. EDITED
2. New rear Control arm bushings

The car NOW drives, steers, and handles like a modern car, but has some play from the steering box. The difference is unbelieveable and yes it drives like not only a modern sports car but handles like one as well, not a C5/6 but as good as you can get from a C3 and tons better than it came from the factory. Everything is SO MUCH more responsive with a very good ride! The key is to eliminate the slop out of the stock suspension as much as possible which I have done with as much polyurethane as possible or the stock bushings such as the competition strut rods and the best V/Z tires for your rims!

markids77

Be wary of reducing ride height as reduced suspension travel REQUIRES stiffer shocks/springs so as not to spend all of your time wearing out the bump stops. If you define "modern ride" as decreased compliance over rolling bumps, and increased "thwack" over sharp bumps... lower away and stiffen it right up. It will never feel as light or as sure footed as a well set up 2100 lb Import... it's a different beastie altogether. What are your expectations ride-wise from proposed mods?

jeff79'

So that is basically the VBP Advanced Street/Slalom package with new balljoints and tie rods etc. added, correct ?...I'm starting to shop around and get educated now, for the spring....Pardon the pun....I want to stay with my stock rims though.

eagle275

with VB&P's Ultra-Performance pkg. Lower to the ground,etc. It's set up for competition.What's nice is it's adjustable.It's expensive,but.....

LFZ

This is all you need to solve your problems....http://www.sriiimotorsports.com/

LFZ

The stock C3 frame will only take you so far...here is another option...http://www.streetshopinc.com/

FB007

Let's see. You want to take a 1953 Chevy design, and have it ride and feel like a C-6, similar in design to the early 70's Ferrari racing suspension. Correct?

elle88

I somewhat give up in trying to have a modern ride quality with the c3. my main concern is the difficulty in having the car stable and firm on roads other than perfect. if I stiffen the suspensions to have a better behaviour in turns and acceleration-braking , then the car tends to jump on rutted or non perfect roads. a modern car is instead both stiff and can ride nicely on non perfect roads.
I gave up because a forum member named Stroker ( italian like me) who designed a 4 or 5 point rear suspension for the c3 , explained me that the main problem with the C3 is the frame.it twists.it's just a flat frame with no torsional strenght. a frame like this requires stiff, too stiff suspensions. a modern car has a stiffer frame-cage instead and so can use softer suspensions which give both a firm ride and smoothness ( suspension follow the ruts but is not so soft)

jb78L-82

Yes, it is a hybrid version of the VBP package with some differences, the difference is all in the details:

Since my car came with the F-41/Sport suspension, I used Mid America's 550 front springs that are 1 inch shorter than stock and mixed the Bilstein shocks, heavy duty fronts and sports in the rear with the 360 composite spring. I also used competition struts from Mid America with heim joints, not adjustable struts with poly bushings but had OEM struts with poly bushings that squeaked and are prone to flex prior to the competition struts. I also use a 3/4 in rear bar with OEM END LINKS in place of the 7/16th inch stock rear bar, not aftermaket end links. I also think using a 1 1/8 in front bar with a 7/8 in rear bar with AFTERMARKET end links may be asking for oversteer. Using upper and lower poly control arm bushings is critical to eliminate the play in the front steering, as well. Lastly and critically, to optimize all of the suspenison changes, I switched to SLP 17 in rims and most importantly, the 255/45 255/50's ZR tires! I used the 255/60/15 BFG Radial T/A's S rated up to last year for too many years trying to hold onto the stock look and since there are no real performance tires available in the 15 in size, I really could not take full advantage of all the changes! I often read about people making all types of suspension changes and then they run S/T rated tires which negates much of the gains one should get with these types of changes. Tires are vital in optimizing not only the handling but the ride, my ZR tires ride BETTER than the S rated BFG tires.

Hope that this helps!

starbai

I plan on doing a set of 20's in very much the same setup as GroovyJay (his car is like the model of what I'd like to make mine look like)



Thanks for the tips here... was mostly everything you did bolt on or did it require a lot of fabrication??? I'm not afraid of getting dirty and swapping things out but when it comes to welding and fabrication it looks like I'll have to take it to a shop to get it done. (which isn't necessarily a problem) I just prefer to do the work myself, this whole project was a learning experience for me, but I dont have the equipment or the knoweledge or anyone to train me on how to weld/fabricate well enough for me to take to the suspension of the car.



Sounds like fun! Thanks for the tips! Unfortunately this car is far from a frame off resto and whatever I do will probably be on my back under the car in my garage... I will take it to shops if i have to but as previously stated whatever I can do at home myself to acomplish my goals I'm going to do.

I guess my point is, whatever you guys suggest, I kinda need to limit it to things I can do without taking the whole body off the car lol.



Thanks for the suggestion I will be looking into it!



Thanks for the tips and the long reply, I really appreciate you going through a comprehensive parts list for me so that I can take the time to figure out what everything does and learn about what I need to do for mine.

I do not expect the thing to ride like a c5/c6/XLR lol--- but I think we can all agree that this thing, STOCK, doesn't ride any better than an late 70's pickup truck! I want a more car like feel, I want something that feels stiffer, more sporty, not so sloppy and rattly and loose. The car is an 81 that the previous owner did nothing but basic maintenance to.




Stiffer Shocks/Springs not a problem! Just need help picking which ones :-) -- Expectations as described above, less truck like, more sports car like, dont expect as nimble as a miata but dont like it as sloppy and crappy as an el camino with a bed full of cargo.


Thanks for the suggestion will look into this too.. I'm prepared to spend quite a bit but cant go too crazy. My whole budget must also include a set of wheels/tires.



LoL thanks for the suggestion but replacing my car altogether isn't reallly what I was looking for lol

Yea too far for me :-) Maybe in 20 years when we restore her again we'll look into this


Yea uh no. It looks like from the responses in this thread many people have had the same goals I have had, modernize the suspension for a better ride/handling.... I'm realistic in expectations as the rest of these responses to my question seem to yield results very similar to what I'm looking for.


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You all have given me a lot to look into and I'll be updating this thread with questions as they arise in my search.

Thanks again!!

hpvpaul2

Can someone give me the contact for VB&P? I was about to purchase "corvette-suspension-package-max-performance-1980-1982" from Ecklers, but sounds like I may have some other options.

Easy Mike

hpvpaul2: this thread is from 2009. http://www.vbandp.com/