63mako

Additives similar to ZDDP???? Amsoil is available there. Their Z-Rod is specifically engineered for our cars. Includes real ZDDP not "something similar to ZDDP".

http://www.amsoil.com/international/...s/Germany.aspx

Greasyfingers Nick

Very good thread and initial research and post. Thank you. But I fear some just believe what they want to believe despite all the info provided to them. Perhaps fear of being duped, or spending pennies less on oil, or likin the color of the container..who knows. But if you have a flat tappet cam engine and drive with spirit and gusto, then use oil formulated specifically for your engine (this is not new..it is old..the oils made some time ago DID have the zddp in it..you are not being boonswaggled into something new, you are being told that oil has changed from when your flat tappet cam engine was built.) I did find it curious that no oil mfg recommended adding a zddp additive product to a low zddp oil: perhaps the correct parts per million is hard to get right. So..do use it, no harm done..if it does nothing well, no harm done. But if you do not use it the risk of high cost cam repair is quite real. Now, let's talk about ethanol in fuel for cars that were not built to use it, and for cars that are not driven enough to use the fuel in the tank within 30 days.

buckhorn 76

i believe the manufacturers cannot state that additional zddp is required due to damage to catalytic converters. this is the only reason it was reduced in the first place. my flat tappet engines always get 16 oz of delco e.o.s. added to the oil - it's only about 8 bucks a bottle.

billla

It's not curious at all - oils are carefully designed for a specific application; adding an unknown 3rd party product can create all kinds of issues known in the industry as "additive clash".

This is far, far too much ZDDP for regular use, concentrated at around 4800 ppm ZDDP. It's a great break-in additive and the one I use for that purpose...but for regular use just buy the right oil.

This remains very simple, folks - buy the right oil for your application and avoid the snake oyl.

I'm always surprised given a) the clear guidance by flat-tappet cam manufacturers and b) the ready availability of oils specifically designed for flat-tappet cams that so much time and effort is expended in this discussion and exploring alternative approaches. JUST BUY THE RIGHT OIL.

buckhorn 76

the " right oil " may be easy to find in the states......different story north of the border. my formula has no ill effects in either my vette or my racecar.

billla

While I'd agree that the impact of too much ZDDP (combustion chamber deposits, etc.) isn't as well understood as too little - unless you're doing regular oil analysis and teardown all we can really say is *apparently* the EOS + 5 qts isn't having any ill effects.

I'd suggest at least cutting down to 1/2 bottle of EOS.

All your call, but just wanted to weigh in.

gliot1

I am a Valvoline VR1 20W 50 guy at this point. It is a dino oil that appears to have all the needed additives older engines need. Between postings like this one and a lengthy Shell Oil report I read not long ago, I think I have the right stuff. I used 20W 50 because the Shell report noted that the 10W 40 of yesteryear was more like 20W 50 today. After I switched my consumption dropped to nil. A few other club members tried it and had the same results. It was noted that being most of us only drive our cars in warm weather, the viscosity was a non-issue!

billla

Just be aware that VR1 is a racing oil - it has sufficient ZDDP but the detergent package isn't formulated for stop-and-go driving (which builds varnish) or extended change intervals. It certainly works, but it's not the best choice for the application.

centuryoldracer

[QUOTE=billla;1572367505]

Summary: If you use a flat-tappet cam run an oil from this list or another oil you're sure has at least 1000 ppm ZDDP. No additives (other than for break-in), no diesel oils, no racing oils and no miracle cures - just the right oil. For break-in run any oil from the list plus a break-in additive or use one of the specialized break-in oils.

If all you want is a good oil choice, you can skip the rest of the background here and just scroll down to the list of oils. More technical background is at the bottom of this post for those that are interested.







Oil List
(Synthetic) AMSOIL Synthetic Premium Protection Motor Oils
Links provided by Corvette Forum vendor C66 RacingLLC (PM 'Subdriver')

Grades: 10w40(AMO), 20w50(ARO)

Claim: "ideal for high-mileage vehicles, vehicles with flat-tappet cams and high-stress vehicles subject to hot temperatures, heavy hauling, trailer pulling or off-road use."

Verification: ~1265 PPM: http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbu...t%20Tappet.pdf

(Synthetic) AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil
Links provided by Corvette Forum Vendor C66 RacingLLC (PM 'Subdriver')

Grades: 10w30(ZRT), 20w50(ZRF)

Claim: "AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil is formulated with high levels of ZDDP to protect flat-tappet cams, lifters, rockers and other areas susceptible to wear. Its high-zinc, high-phosphorus formulation provides the extra wear protection these critical splash-lubricated components require."

Verification: ~ 1320 PPM: http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbu...t%20Tappet.pdf

(Semi-Synthetic) Brad Penn

Grades: 0W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40 , 15W-40, 20W-50

Claim: In addition to our unique base oil cut, increased concentration of “zinc” (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate a.k.a. ZDDP) provides outstanding anti-wear/anti-scuffing protection for engines employing either‘flat tappet’ or roller cams. BRAD PENN® Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oilshave been evaluated by a number of premiere camshaft manufacturers with tremendous success. Many are now recommending our Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oils to provide outstanding protection for their ‘flat tappet’ or roller cams.

Verification: http://www.penngrade1.com/Zinc.aspx

(Synthetic) Castrol EDGE 5W-50

Grades: 5W50

Claim: "Today's engines are engineering differently andface different demands than those of yester year. Now classic car owners who are particular about what they put into their vintage vehicles can receive modern protection from a higher zinc formula specially engineered for classic engines."

Verification: Claims compatability with API SJ & SL.

(Dino) Collector's Choice Motor Oil

Grades: 20W50

Claim: "Today's engines are engineering differently and face different demands than those of yesteryear. Now classic car owners who are particular about what they put into their vintage vehicles can receive modern protection from a higher zinc formula specially engineered for classic engines."

Verification: 2000 PPM claimed, which is significantly more than required for even extreme cams. http://www.mossmotors.com/graphics/products/pdf/220-810_220-815_INST.pdf

(Synthetic) CompCams Muscle Car & Street Rod Oil
Grades: 10W30, 15W50

Claim: "optimum amounts of ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorous) provide unmatched anti-wear properties. available in both 10W30 and 15W50 formulas and is perfect for late model or classic engines with flat tappet valvetrains."

Verification: NONE CompCams Tech Line refused to provide any details on ZDDP levels and the MSDS provides no details. The tech would go so far as to say it has "more than" 1,400 PPM ZDDP.

(Synthetc & Dino) Driven Racing Oil (formerly Joe Gibbs Hot Rod Oil)

Grades: 10W30, 15W50 in both dino and synthetic.

Claim:"Higher levels of Zinc (ZDDP) than regular passenger car oils. Delivers proper anti-wear protection for older style push-rod and flat-tappet engines."

Verification: ~1270 PPM ZDDP Driven Racing Oil Data Sheet

(Dino) Lucas Hot Rod and Classic Hi-Performance Oil

Grades: 10W30, 10W40, 20W50

Claim: "Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil is manufactured with the highest quality paraffinic base oils and is fortified with a unique additive package containing high levels of zinc, molybdenum and phosphorus, which provides a tougher, thicker additive film for maximum protection even under the most severe conditions. It lowers oil temperatures, extends oil life and minimizes metal fatigue. It improves the film strength between the cylinder wall and piston rings and slows oil burning and improves pressure in worn engines. It has good cold temperature properties and stands up to high operating temperatures. It is compatible with methanol and all racing fuels, as well as with synthetic and non-synthetic oils.

Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil SAE 10W-40 is for muscle, showroom, classic and trophy cars without catalytic converters. It can be used in racing applications. Not recommended for passenger car use."

Verification: ~2100 PPM ZDDP claimed. This is higher than what is typically recommended (1,000 - 1,400).

(Synthetic) Mobile 1 15W-50

Grades: 15W50

Claim: "Mobil 1 15W-50 is also recommended for older valvetrain designs that may benefit from a higher level of anti-wear normally not required for newer generation vehicles."

Verification: http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=185&loc=http%3A%2F %2Fforums.corvetteforum.com%2Fc3-tech-performance%2F2484100-list-of-flat-tappet-oils-5.html%23post1578102976&v=1&libid=131040 3011947&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobil.com%2 Fusa-english%2Fmotoroil%2Ffiles%2Fmobil_1_pro duct_guide.pdf&ref=http%3A%2F%2Femail03. secureserver.net%2Fwebmail.php%3Flogin%3 D1&title=List%20of%20Flat-Tappet%20Oils%20-%20Page%205%20-%20Corvette%20Forum%23post1578102976&txt =http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobil.com%2Fusa-english%2Fmotoroil%2Ffiles%2Fmobil_1_pro duct_guide.pdf

Mobile 1 claims SN approval for this oil, although the grade (15W50) is not included in that specification. Regardless, it contains the right amount of ZDDP for flat-tappet cams.

(Synthetic) Red LineSynthetic Motor Oil

I made the decision to remove Red Line oils from the list as they make no claims regarding flat-tappet cam support on their website and I'm awaiting confirmation from them via email regarding their ZDDP levels.

(Synthetic) RoyalPurple RP

Grades: 10W40, 15W40, 20W50

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Claim: [I]"For stock or mildly modified flat tappet valve trains(

CheezMoe

VR1 synthetic here no complaints. wanted to note there are two levels of VR1 in dino. One is true race oil, the other is a street blend, as is the synthetic to my understanding. Did all VR1 products get removed from the list?

Greasyfingers Nick

zddp in older flat tappet cam engines is NOT snake oil..use it..or lose it.
Valvoline Racing is in two versions..strictly racing does not have the detergents nor long life of the street VR1. Use racing for racing. Use street for street. If mixing your own..study to get the PPM as close to correct as you can. Too little or too much is not correct and can have adverse effects. If YOU think it is snake oil..ok..but keep it to yourself and don't influence others to make a costly mistake. Just have a nice drive in your vette with Elvis at your side. Anyone can prove anything using internet squabble..so don't believe me or anyone else..read enough various data from good sources to decide. Call Edelbrock tech service re cams..and ask em...as I did.
Cheers
Nick

pippo350

Nobody here use a Bardhal motor oil?
On my '81 I use Bardhal XTC C60 10W40 SAE grade full synthetic.
Acea A3/B3 API SN/CF anti friction formula Bardahl Polar Plus + Fullerene.

http://www.top-oils.co.uk//default.asp?product_id=59

Greating from Italy

EIGHTY

Here's a link to Mobil 1 oils and the ZDDP levels. There's more than one that has at least 1000 ZDDP.

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...pecs-guide.pdf

Primoz

What about this:

https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/produ...icants/20w50?f[application]=139&f[range]=25

It is available in Europe too, so that makes a big plus for me at least!

63mako

http://www.nlaparts.com/store/motul-...t-p-17156.html
This one lists ZDDP levels of 1250 PPM. Should be fine except 20W-50 is way to thick. Thinner oils cool internals better, reduce start up wear (905 of wear is on start up), Less wear on distributor gear, less restriction to crankshaft rotation, More horsepower and less wear on oil pump.

Iron_dog

VR1 20w50 is mineral, 10w60 is blend, 5w50 is full sinthetic.
I'm now with the 20w50 but I was thinking to switch to 5w50... for less friction... any thought?

Silvertone

The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature. 10w30 is pretty popular. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that most Corvette drivers would not use such a thick oil as you're suggesting. Why would you?

Disclaimer: I did not read 33 pages of comments on this thread.

Logan176

So if I want to stay with conventional oil, it looks like my only choices from this list are Collector's Choice and Lucas Oil. I have used 20W-50 Lucas in the past for one year and everything seemed to be fine. Since this stuff is as thick as maple syrup, I'm thinking of going with something a little thinner... possibly 10W30.

Based on the Clymer shop manual, if I plan on driving the car in any temps above 20 degrees, 20W20, 10W30, 5W30, 10W30, 20W40, or 20W50 can be used. That's one hell of a list. Any thoughts?

mr.beachcomber

For conventional oils, I'd stay away from the 20 weight oils for any Corvette. You may get better mileage, but C3 engines with flat tappet cams are harder on oils than roller cams. Consequently you run the risk of shearing the oil out of grade faster than a 30 weight.

Unless you're burning oil because of bad rings, I'd stay away for the 40 and 50 weight oils unless you're tracking your Vette. As you mentioned, they're thicker, take longer to warm up to operating temperature, retain heat, and use HP to pump.

Personally, I prefer the 30 weight oils with 10W30 as my all-time choice for street driven Vettes that are occasionally auto-xed. (My SBC B Production Vette ran on straight 30 weight racing oil during the 70's and early 80's, and I never had any lower end problems.)

Just my opinion. YMMV.

Logan176

So where do you guys buy your high-zinc motor oil? I used to be able to buy the Lucas Oil Hot Rod & Classic from a local auto parts store, but they recently closed and no one else around me carries the stuff. I know I can get it on Amazon, but I'd rather buy something like this from a reputable online store that only deals with automobiles.