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List of Flat-Tappet Oils

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Old 06-09-2016, 07:32 PM   #661
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I know classiccarmotoroil.com sells oil formulated for older cars. Never tried to use it but have seen it on line occasionally.
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Old 06-19-2016, 10:06 AM   #662
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Originally Posted by Logan176 View Post
So where do you guys buy your high-zinc motor oil? I used to be able to buy the Lucas Oil Hot Rod & Classic from a local auto parts store, but they recently closed and no one else around me carries the stuff. I know I can get it on Amazon, but I'd rather buy something like this from a reputable online store that only deals with automobiles.
Check with a local engine builder/machine shop/speed shop and see if they can order you what you want from one of their vendors.If not any NAPA should be able to get the Valvoline VR1 line as well.
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Old 08-07-2016, 07:49 PM   #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greggome View Post
How does mobil 1 5W-30W high mileage rate? I have started using this on my 68 but I have been concerned it has the zinc I need.
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Originally Posted by 63mako View Post
1000 PPM Phosphorous, 1100 PPM Zinc. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Is this good enough for a 74 L82 for street use? ZDDP is the Zinc one or Phosphorous one?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-13-2016, 12:18 AM   #664
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Originally Posted by corvetero View Post
Is this good enough for a 74 L82 for street use? ZDDP is the Zinc one or Phosphorous one?
ZDDP is both - dialkyldithiophosphate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billla

Summary: If you use a flat-tappet cam run an oil from this list or another oil you're sure has at least 1000 ppm ZDDP.

Last edited by billla; 08-13-2016 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 08-15-2016, 10:46 AM   #665
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Originally Posted by greggome View Post
I know classiccarmotoroil.com sells oil formulated for older cars. Never tried to use it but have seen it on line occasionally.
The engine builder that built my new engine uses this oil on the build. After the warranty period I went to Amsoil Z-Rod.

The issue I found with the Classic Motor Oil is that it's evaporation loss is not very good at all.

What I am speaking of is NOACK Volatility Test.


The NOACK Volatility Test, otherwise known as ASTM D-5800, determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions.

To qualify for the API SM motor oil specification, gasoline motor oils cannot experience a weight loss of more than 15% in the NOACK test. Many current motor oils still have a hard time meeting this minimal requirement, resulting in increased wear, fuel consumption and emissions. The lower the number, the better the resistance to vaporization.
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:24 PM   #666
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Just an update concerning Castrol:




"Is the GTX Synthetic Blend 10w30 High Mileage safe to use with flat tapped engines? (1972 corvette)"




Thank you for contacting Castrol North America.

Classic cars with flat tappet cam engines represent a special case in regards to engine oil lubrication. These engines have valve train configurations that require elevated levels of zddp (zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate) anti-wear for proper protection of the flat tappet camshaft and its lifters. Insufficient concentration of zddp will lead to premature wear and failure of the camshaft and lifters. Current GF-4 and GF-5 fuel economy grade engine oils are designed for extended life of the catalytic convertors in modern passenger cars and have industry mandated limitations on the amount of sulfur and phosphorus within the oil.

Castrol always recommends following the guidelines of your manufacturer to determine the recommended grade and API specific to your application. This information can be found in your owner’s manual, or by contacting your OEM directly.


Castrol GTX High Mileage oils would not be recommended for use in a flat tappet cam engine.

Castrol EDGE SAE 5W-50 has been recently reformulated to have a boosted level of ZDDP (1250 ppm) to help protect flat tappet cam engines in classic cars. This engine oil is a full synthetic, has excellent cold temperature properties, and has a high temperature viscosity (SAE 50) that is suitable for use in many classic car applications.

Thank you again for contacting Castrol, we value your patronage!

Castrol Consumer Relations

Last edited by sunflower 1972; 09-27-2016 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:09 AM   #667
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Default NOACK Volatility Test (ASTM D-5800)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunflower 1972 View Post
Just an update concerning Castrol:




"Is the GTX Synthetic Blend 10w30 High Mileage safe to use with flat tapped engines? (1972 corvette)"




Thank you for contacting Castrol North America.

Classic cars with flat tappet cam engines represent a special case in regards to engine oil lubrication. These engines have valve train configurations that require elevated levels of zddp (zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate) anti-wear for proper protection of the flat tappet camshaft and its lifters. Insufficient concentration of zddp will lead to premature wear and failure of the camshaft and lifters. Current GF-4 and GF-5 fuel economy grade engine oils are designed for extended life of the catalytic convertors in modern passenger cars and have industry mandated limitations on the amount of sulfur and phosphorus within the oil.

Castrol always recommends following the guidelines of your manufacturer to determine the recommended grade and API specific to your application. This information can be found in your owner’s manual, or by contacting your OEM directly.


Castrol GTX High Mileage oils would not be recommended for use in a flat tappet cam engine.

Castrol EDGE SAE 5W-50 has been recently reformulated to have a boosted level of ZDDP (1250 ppm) to help protect flat tappet cam engines in classic cars. This engine oil is a full synthetic, has excellent cold temperature properties, and has a high temperature viscosity (SAE 50) that is suitable for use in many classic car applications.

Thank you again for contacting Castrol, we value your patronage!

Castrol Consumer Relations

Can you asked them what the The NOACK Volatility Test, otherwise known as ASTM D-5800 value is for that oil?

If it's below 15% then all is good.
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Old 09-30-2016, 02:51 PM   #668
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Originally Posted by 1974CorvetteJimCr View Post
The engine builder that built my new engine uses this oil on the build. After the warranty period I went to Amsoil Z-Rod.
.
Jim, has the Amsoil Z-rod met your expectations ?
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Old 10-01-2016, 10:21 PM   #669
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Jim, has the Amsoil Z-rod met your expectations ?
Yes it has.
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Old 10-02-2016, 11:10 AM   #670
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Default Mobil1 Peak Life 5w-50

Did anyone see Mobil 1 Peak Life 5w-50 it supposedly has 2200ppm of zddp!

http://www.mobil1.co.uk/synthetic-en...fications#tabs
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:42 AM   #671
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I am exhausted with this thread... Don't know if it's been covered, I didn't read it all... As far as oils labeled GF3 and to some extent GF4... When the C5 in particular was built, we were in GF3 territory, and in the years leading up to the 1997 release to sale, in the prototype years, we were in GF2 territory... Whatever the limits on ZDDP were THEN, are safe limits for the oem catalyst According to GM then... So those grandstanding about M1 nowadays, as well as many other lower mandated ZDDP synthetics, be aware things have changed... We are told by the oil manufacturers and gm that dexos1 is the new standard and supercedes GM4718M... Would you really believe that? All cars and trucks from the GF3 and GF4 era are no longer under warranty... I don't believe for a minute they prioritized a decade old gen3 motors needs... I say run whatever you want and if a cat goes bad, then they're are many aftermarket cats a while lot cheaper than a rebuild.... ZDDP is still kink for AW in the right amounts... And for what it's worth, the boutique hot rod blenders are financially capitalizing on the reduction of ZDDP and making a killing... I also have worked in the chemical blending business, and lab metrology has a huge variance in data results... When you read oil analysis, be aware for the price of $18 a sample don't think you're getting ANY BETTER than a 10 percent variance... And that's highly optimistic... My met lab runs over 400 samples per day of PPT level chemistries... And we struggle with repeatability to the point the customer wants up to 10 or 15 reps of the same lot... Don't discount an oil of its 50 or even 200 ppm low... I would say also, different variations of ZDDP bind with other additives when cooked down within a dilution analysis method... The uoas and voas are a crude result of what's actually in an oil.. Oils are a blend that works as a synergistic fluid... Best bet is a data compilation of real world users and track record... Peace
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:48 PM   #672
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Originally Posted by dezertc5 View Post
Whatever the limits on ZDDP were THEN, are safe limits for the oem catalyst According to GM then...
I believe you may be confused as to the focus of this thread, which is specific to flat-tappet cams.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:11 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by billla View Post
I believe you may be confused as to the focus of this thread, which is specific to flat-tappet cams.
I understand... I do see however a large portion of this tread where C5 or C6 owners are chiming in about M1... Secondarily, a lot of other places on the forum as well... But, you're right... This is a flat tappet thread... I digress
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:17 PM   #674
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A lot of Penrites oils seem to have good zddp levels.
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pd...%20Summary.pdf

Not sure if it's available in the USA, but is available here in NZ and Australia.
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:20 PM   #675
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Default Today's SN Motor Oils and Classic Car Flat Tappet Engines - Valvoline Conventional

I've been looking at various websites for information on how the oils are protecting our old engines and finding most information is quite old. Most lists are from 2008 and 2009 and some oils are no longer available. I always ran Valvoline 10w30 or 10w40 in my old cars long ago and found it is hard to get information on how suitable they are today.


I did find some interesting items on the Valvoline website.



Quote:
https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq

What is the controversy surrounding the amount of zinc in motor oil?

The controversy exists as a result of many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts belief that lower levels of zinc in API SN and SM motor oils can cause excessive wear in older style push-rod and flat-tappet engines. They hold this belief despite the fact that all new motor oil classifications are intended to be backward compatible.



It sounds like they say there is nothing to worry about, but I question if we blow an engine due to the cam if they will stand behind that and pay to fix our engine.


Now from 540 rat's information of a few years ago posted on the Chevelle website, I found this below. Of course, I was never keen on 5w30 and usually ran 10w30 or 10w40 in the really hot summers. I can't seem to find any information in his testing on the regular street conventional oils. Most conventional oils are racing oils and most agree they shouldn't be used long term in a street engine.



32. 5W30 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 94,744 psi
zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD


He didn't list the levels but from Valvoline's PI sheet, this is what they show for today's SN oil.

Valvoline............... API SN/SM............... Zinc/Phosphorus............... Calcium/Sodium
SAE 10W-30............... SAE 10W-30............... 0.083/0.076............... 0.167/0.049
SAE 10W-40...............SAE 10W-40............... 0.083/0.076............... 0.167/0.049
SAE 20W-50............... SAE 20W-50............... 0.083/0.076............... 0.167/0.049


While this one is high in zinc, according to some posts the pressure is at the low end of modest protection. Also motorcycle oil has additives necessary for things like the wet clutch and the gears in the transmission due to a shared oil sump. Also, some car additives may be left out.


10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil, API SJ, Conventional – 65,553 PSI
Zinc: 1154 ppm Phos: 1075 ppm Moly: 0 ppm



So I am wondering just where I am running Valvoline Conventional 10w30 and 10w40 oil (not the Racing Oil) with the old engines. Anyone know?
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:43 PM   #676
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Hemmings has jumped in with a formula oil for flat tappet cam cars..Joe Gibbs has it, and many others..which beats trying to add zddp to an oil yourself as parts per million is important. Many TRUSTED and EXPERT sources have, do, and will explain why. Many wearing tin foil hats and UFOs are real buttons will insist it is snake oil and just a way for companies to make money..(how..? you change your oil with the same number of quarts..this oil or that oil). You could also not believe in differential gear oil additive for positraction and then be able to rebuild the diff at the same time as the engine. Just sayin..I know LOTS will say..Nooooo....fake..don't need it..Oils since around 2000 have reduced the zddp due to catalytic converters AND..not using flat tappet cams..and improved metallurgy in cams etc...Oh..and then there is the topic of hardened valve seats, lead in gas or no lead..valve seat recession etc.Don
t believe me ..just another old fart...Best again to research trusted professional data.
Nick
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:13 PM   #677
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Not to belabor the oil issue but I just checked Mobil 1 updated 2017 spec chart and its now showing most of its oils have dropped to 800 PPM phosphorus and 900 ppm zinc. I just bought some mobil one high mileage expecting 1100ppm and 1000 phosphorus. Seems like they have reduced the levels in the formulas other then the racing oils. Not sure if I should be using this stuff in my car at these lower levels.

Last edited by greggome; 08-10-2017 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:19 PM   #678
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I'd suggest avoid all the club and forum posts that are some ol guy like me saying..well...I had this friend who knew a guy who had bought this hot rod that had run the Indy race and.....and instead look for web posts from oil companies, research automotive science and trusted auto magazine authors, or engine builders..who have done the research and can state the data... some will tell you the why and how and parts per million needed .try this one https://www.motor.com/magazinepdfs/042010_07.pdf
It is confusing as even oil companies sometimes conflict their own data..Mobil Oil has some posts citing which of their oils contain zddp in what levels..then their own charts show other figures. BUT they do say that flat tappet cam cars benefit from zddp in the motor oil and that since the early 2000s the ppm has been reduced. Then..as I mentioned..was your older car mfgd with hardend valve seats? Does your older car have older rubber fuel lines or carb metals that may not stand up to ethanol? Should your older gear box use GL4 or GL 5 gear oil? Is your distributor timing and gap and curve and vac set from old factory specs for old tyme fuels? and so on.
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:56 PM   #679
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Here is some very good information for those still running conventional Valvoline oil. I wrote Valvoline and asked since their website says their oils are backward compatible. Since their product support suggested the VR-1 Racing oil, and we have all heard stories that Racing oil isn't good for street use due to short oil change periods required, I asked about that, too.

It looks like either the conventional 10w30 and 10w40 or the VR-1 Racing should be safe in our flat tappet engines.



Quote:
Mark, thank you for contacting Valvoline Product Support

For stock applications in flat tappet cam engines, even our Premium Conventional will have enough Zinc to properly protect the engine. Valvoline stands behind the use of our fluids as they are backwards compatible to the original API service rating for these engines. Though the Zinc level has been reduced over the years, it still has enough to protect the engine at 830 ppm. Since we do recommend the use of this, if there are any problems with the vehicle, there is a claims process to help determine if it was in fact an oil related failure or mechanical. If it is deemed a fluid related issue after the analysis, then Valvoline can pay for repairs but this will be at the discretion of the claims coordinator.

If you are looking for a Zinc fortified option to help better protect the cam and other engine components, we would recommend looking into our VR-1 Racing formulation oils. This will not meet current API ratings, which allows us to put in additional amounts of Zinc. The levels will be around 1400 ppm for this racing oil.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us via phone at 800 TEAM VAL or by email at [email protected] for assistance.

Thank you and have a great day.

Max
Valvoline Product Support

Thank you,

Valvoline Product Support
Ticket Number: 11-912805
Subject: VR1 ZDDP

Quote:
Mark,

We also used to make a Non Street Legal racing oil which often is what people find information on regarding drain intervals. However, the VR-1 is a full detergent oil which means that you are able to keep the OEM drain intervals. Typically we do recommend industry standard of 3 months or 3,000 miles however if your manufacturer recommends longer, we will stand behind their recommendation as well.

Since we currently do not produce any extended drain interval oils, running this oil will give the best protection for the cam and other internal engine components over the standard passenger car motor oils that we produce. Again, with the standard oil you will still have some Zinc, but it will not provide the best protection for the older style engines. If catalytic converters are not a concern, it will be most beneficial to run the VR1 as you will have the same oil drain interval as any of our other oils, but the additional metal to metal protection.

Thank you!

Max
Valvoline Product Support

Thank you,

Valvoline Product Support
Ticket Number: 11-912805
Subject: VR1 ZDDP
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Old 08-14-2017, 07:35 PM   #680
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Thanks for this info. I have been trying to figure out which oil to use now that Mobil one seems to have decreased Zddp levels for 2017. Ive been avoiding Valvoline racing oil as I understood it was lacking in detergent and was not necessarily good for street use but Valvoline's response seems to suggest it would be a good choice. Hopefully this is up to date info as I see the oil companies keep changing their formulations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Milner View Post
Here is some very good information for those still running conventional Valvoline oil. I wrote Valvoline and asked since their website says their oils are backward compatible. Since their product support suggested the VR-1 Racing oil, and we have all heard stories that Racing oil isn't good for street use due to short oil change periods required, I asked about that, too.

It looks like either the conventional 10w30 and 10w40 or the VR-1 Racing should be safe in our flat tappet engines.
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