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Any good factory Chevy cast iron BBC Big Port heads out there?

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Old 12-15-2009, 01:04 PM   #1
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Default Any good factory Chevy cast iron BBC Big Port heads out there?

I have been reading about a few shops that are producing high flowing factory Chevrolet small port cast iron BBC heads.

I am just wondering if there are any shops out there that are able to produce some good flow numbers out of factory Chevrolet big port cast iron BBC heads?

When I talk about good flow numbers, I mean numbers that are at least as good as what I am reading about from these aforementioned small port heads.

Steve
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:47 PM   #2
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Steve, you might could hit up Mark Jones (aka. Vortecpro). He works on Gm heads only and is damn good at them. He recently built me a mild hyd roller, 657hp 496" and used some 049 ovals that he worked over. Not sure if he does the square port stuff or not. Worth a try though.

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Old 12-15-2009, 04:54 PM   #3
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Alan, thanks for the info - and I will contact him.

But seriously, 657hp out of a 496" oval port motor is incredible! I would say that Mark Jones is quite a talented machinist/engine builder.

Steve
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Old 12-15-2009, 05:02 PM   #4
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Btw, how is your little 400rwhp 65 vert running these days? Haven't seen anything from you in a while.
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Old 12-15-2009, 05:40 PM   #5
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It's doing just fine. I am going to be converting it into a big block car. What I want is a factory appearing 435hp/427 car.

Since I did the frame off restoration of the car it has pretty much looked the same for these last few years. I decided I wanted something a little different and since I had a factory 427 hood laying around I had it painted and then put it on the car.

Well, after doing that I can't tell you how disappointing it was to pop the 427 hood and see a small block in the car. So, a big block just had to go in the car.

I've decided to do a 496" motor and make it look as close to stock as possible. This means exhaust manifolds instead of headers. I know I will be giving up some power but I am completely stuck on factory exhaust manifolds - the 383" motor has them as well.

I just bought a factory '67 tri-power intake and carbs for the car - I already have a 68-69 tri-power but once again I want the car to appear bone stock. The only caveat will be the heads. I have a set of GMPP Chevrolet #12363400 heads I got from Nick(VETMANIAC) a few years back. They don't look like the factory aluminum heads from that era but they do flow a little better. The only thing I am not sure of is how well they will work with this 496" because they have a somewhat large 315cc-320cc intake runner volume.

As far as not being on here for a while, my time has been consumed with the 632" build. It's moving along but not at anywhere near the pace that I would like it to. It's all about suppliers not being able to deliver on promises - I'm sure we have all been there.

Steve
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:22 PM   #6
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Now that you mentioned your 632 what rods did you finally decide on ?
Did you go back with an iron block ?
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:33 PM   #7
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I went with the Crower RBT Maxi-Light Series 6 billet rod. As for the block, I am using a Dart Race Series cast iron block which is a step up from the Big "M". This bare block weighs 300 lbs. That is twice what my Merlin aluminum weighed in at.

Steve
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 632C2 View Post
I went with the Crower RBT Maxi-Light Series 6 billet rod. As for the block, I am using a Dart Race Series cast iron block which is a step up from the Big "M". This bare block weighs 300 lbs. That is twice what my Merlin aluminum weighed in at.

Steve
Interesting I have seen the dart race series but have no clue exactly
what the crower RBT is, what is it made out of other then billet ?
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 632C2 View Post
It's doing just fine. I am going to be converting it into a big block car. What I want is a factory appearing 435hp/427 car.

Since I did the frame off restoration of the car it has pretty much looked the same for these last few years. I decided I wanted something a little different and since I had a factory 427 hood laying around I had it painted and then put it on the car.

Well, after doing that I can't tell you how disappointing it was to pop the 427 hood and see a small block in the car. So, a big block just had to go in the car.

I've decided to do a 496" motor and make it look as close to stock as possible. This means exhaust manifolds instead of headers. I know I will be giving up some power but I am completely stuck on factory exhaust manifolds - the 383" motor has them as well.

I just bought a factory '67 tri-power intake and carbs for the car - I already have a 68-69 tri-power but once again I want the car to appear bone stock. The only caveat will be the heads. I have a set of GMPP Chevrolet #12363400 heads I got from Nick(VETMANIAC) a few years back. They don't look like the factory aluminum heads from that era but they do flow a little better. The only thing I am not sure of is how well they will work with this 496" because they have a somewhat large 315cc-320cc intake runner volume.

As far as not being on here for a while, my time has been consumed with the 632" build. It's moving along but not at anywhere near the pace that I would like it to. It's all about suppliers not being able to deliver on promises - I'm sure we have all been there.

Steve
Hi Steve, let me touch on few items here,

A better platform would have been the "077's" with some mild porting.
On a 396" (10.5:1 CR) solid-lifter build we are at 530 HP and on the 427",575 HP. The "077's" have the "Winters-Snowflake" cast into the heads and appear fairly OEM! They have the correct intake bolt pattern also!

These heads look very close to the originals and are redesigned from the "074's"!

The heads you mention above have "300" intake runners and 110 exhaust's, unless they've been opened up!!

We recently deliverd a 509", 10:1, solid-roller with the "990" C.I. heads with 640 HP! Heads flowed 345 intake and 240 exhaust, both @ .700" lift. This one has a real nice sound to it!!

We are heavily involved in "100% stock-appearing" builds here, most of which are the 1/4" strokers, for a local resto shop! These builds will pass through most judged shows with no issues! You should also see only slightly lower HP numbers, possibly as low as 10, but slightly higher Torque numbers, possibly 20 Ft.Lbs. add'l with the cast exhaust manifolds. This is from a very recent test also on a 9.5:1 BB stroker build!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. The "tri-power" intake would benefit greatly from some hand-porting first and then an extrude-hone deal! Normally I don't recommend the honing, but that is one restrictive intake, moreso than the single 4 brls, especially on a stroker!!
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Mouse View Post
Interesting I have seen the dart race series but have no clue exactly
what the crower RBT is, what is it made out of other then billet ?
Here is a link:
http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml
It is on page 184 under the “RBT” Steel Billet Rods heading.

Steve
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOSFAST View Post
Hi Steve, let me touch on few items here,

A better platform would have been the "077's" with some mild porting.
On a 396" (10.5:1 CR) solid-lifter build we are at 530 HP and on the 427",575 HP. The "077's" have the "Winters-Snowflake" cast into the heads and appear fairly OEM! They have the correct intake bolt pattern also!

These heads look very close to the originals and are redesigned from the "074's"!

The heads you mention above have "300" intake runners and 110 exhaust's, unless they've been opened up!!

We recently deliverd a 509", 10:1, solid-roller with the "990" C.I. heads with 640 HP! Heads flowed 345 intake and 240 exhaust, both @ .700" lift. This one has a real nice sound to it!!

We are heavily involved in "100% stock-appearing" builds here, most of which are the 1/4" strokers, for a local resto shop! These builds will pass through most judged shows with no issues! You should also see only slightly lower HP numbers, possibly as low as 10, but slightly higher Torque numbers, possibly 20 Ft.Lbs. add'l with the cast exhaust manifolds. This is from a very recent test also on a 9.5:1 BB stroker build!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. The "tri-power" intake would benefit greatly from some hand-porting first and then an extrude-hone deal! Normally I don't recommend the honing, but that is one restrictive intake, moreso than the single 4 brls, especially on a stroker!!
Gary, I like the thought of using a factory head with a Winters snowflake but have not been able to locate a decent set.

As far as the #12363400 heads, I haven't taken the time to measure them yet but this is what I was told. I will have to measure these now just to find out.

Good info on the exhaust manifolds. I am looking for a set without A.I.R. but haven't been able to find any yet. I will purchase them from Paragon if I can't find any decent used ones.

Now, when you are talking about a restrictive intake, do you actually mean this "high-rise" '67 unit or are you referring to the "low-rise" '68-'69 unit? When I do a side-by-side comparison of the two intakes, the '68-'69 unit is definitely a weaker looking unit.

I am having a hard time deciding whether or not I am going to open up this tri-power manifold anyway. I hate to modify a virtually perfect intake for a few horsepower. But then again, there is a part of me that says the heck with it - it's mine to do with what I like.

One thing for sure is you can bet that I will flog this combination on my DynoJet until I have wrung everything out of it that I can. It is a sickness...

Steve
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Old 12-16-2009, 11:55 AM   #12
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Cool build up Steve. Make sure to stick with under car exhaust so you don't kill it trying to run sidepipes. I would send the stock manifolds out for porting and extruding. Good luck on your build!

I recently finished a similar project on mine. After coming to the realization that my #matching small block, base model car is never gonna be worth a ton of money so I decided to build what I wanted out of it. I wanted a relatively stock appearing big block that runs 10s on motor, has AC and I can drive anywhere. I used a 496", it does have headers and an air gap intake but the rest of it looks stock. (valve covers, brackets, pulleys, clutch fan etc). Only thing I added to the interior was a shift light. I like it a lot although I am still working out all of the bugs, but atleast it's driving.
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:56 PM   #13
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Hi Steve. My Machinist (Tim) does some awesome porting and has a superflow. He does mostly truck pulling engines here Big Block, limited displacement, only factory or factory type castings (ported) allowed and is the best in the area. I sold a motor on here a year or so ago to a friend of 427Hotrod (Jim Moore). It was a pump gas 548 solid roller 10.25 to 1 compression with Dart 308 iron heads. Tim hand ported and flowed these and this motor pulled 778 HP on 93 octane. Jim's friend that bought this changed out the cam and redynoed it. It pulled over 800 HP with the cam change. Those are good numbers for an iron Dart 308 head on pump fuel. He would also know the best factory head to port since the class that he builds for specify a factory or factory type casting. He could very well have a set already done and can give you flow numbers on what he could provide or port your 400 heads and intake. with Gary on the extrude hone but it is best to do this after the porting has been done. It can be done with the intake, heads and exhaust manifolds if you are building a Max power factory appearing build it will really help with power but it is expensive. If your interested Call Tim @ Performance Motorsports @ 815-786-6998. If you want a reference PM 427Hotrod and ask him about the heads on the 548 from 63Mako

Last edited by 63mako; 12-16-2009 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajrothm View Post
Cool build up Steve. Make sure to stick with under car exhaust so you don't kill it trying to run sidepipes. I would send the stock manifolds out for porting and extruding. Good luck on your build!

I recently finished a similar project on mine. After coming to the realization that my #matching small block, base model car is never gonna be worth a ton of money so I decided to build what I wanted out of it. I wanted a relatively stock appearing big block that runs 10s on motor, has AC and I can drive anywhere. I used a 496", it does have headers and an air gap intake but the rest of it looks stock. (valve covers, brackets, pulleys, clutch fan etc). Only thing I added to the interior was a shift light. I like it a lot although I am still working out all of the bugs, but atleast it's driving.
Alan, under car exhaust is all I do. In fact, my blue '67 with the 632 came with side exhaust and I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. I love the way they look but can't stand the way they sound.

Hey, I talked with Mark today. He sounds like a real busy guy. If I decide to go the cast iron route, he says that he can fix me up.

I will be anxiously waiting to hear the drag strip times for your car.

Steve
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Old 12-16-2009, 02:52 PM   #15
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Steve...these are the guys I was telling you about. The iron Darts he did were very nice.


JIM
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 63mako View Post
Hi Steve. My Machinist (Tim) does some awesome porting and has a superflow. He does mostly truck pulling engines here Big Block, limited displacement, only factory or factory type castings (ported) allowed and is the best in the area. I sold a motor on here a year or so ago to a friend of 427Hotrod (Jim Moore). It was a pump gas 548 solid roller 10.25 to 1 compression with Dart 308 iron heads. Tim hand ported and flowed these and this motor pulled 778 HP on 93 octane. Jim's friend that bought this changed out the cam and redynoed it. It pulled over 800 HP with the cam change. Those are good numbers for an iron Dart 308 head on pump fuel. He would also know the best factory head to port since the class that he builds for specify a factory or factory type casting. He could very well have a set already done and can give you flow numbers on what he could provide or port your 400 heads and intake. with Gary on the extrude hone but it is best to do this after the porting has been done. It can be done with the intake, heads and exhaust manifolds if you are building a Max power factory appearing build it will really help with power but it is expensive. If your interested Call Tim @ Performance Motorsports @ 815-786-6998. If you want a reference PM 427Hotrod and ask him about the heads on the 548 from 63Mako
Kevin, I just talked to Tim. He sounds knowledgeable and was helpful. I definitely have some food for thought...

Steve
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Steve...these are the guys I was telling you about. The iron Darts he did were very nice.


JIM
I'm having second thoughts now on cast iron. I'm not sure that I want to carry the extra weight. Then again, they are totally stock.

You don't happen to have any 077's laying around do you?

Steve
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:23 PM   #18
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Hey Steve, if you're not on a budget, why not just get some AFR or Darts, something that doesn't have logos above the exhaust ports and then just paint them orange? Your accessories will likely block the logos on the front of the heads on AFRs. Just thinking out loud here. I know the iron heads are heavy as hell and more prone to detonation.
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:56 PM   #19
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Alan, I have a set of Dart 335 CNC's laying around but they may be a little too large for this application. Then again, maybe not.

I had initially thought about painting either them or the Chev heads orange but then it might look like I am trying to hide something. Crap, there are just too many ways to go on this deal.

Heck, I also have a perfectly good Keith Black tall deck aluminum block laying around. Maybe I will paint that orange.

Steve
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:19 PM   #20
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I know someone on this thread that won't think those 335's are too big. I can't remember his name. I think the line of thinking is that the heads aren't too big, it is just the cam is too small.

Good luck with the build as it sounds fun and will look forward to the results. What are you thinking about for a cam?


Bill
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