73jst4fun

Thinking about trying some new aluminum heads on a 383 build, I've been looking at the AFR195 Eliminator heads and the Dart Platinum 215 heads. Both have good flow numbers if you look at the charts...wet flow vs. dry flow can be confusuing and what numbers can you trust. The cam I'll be using is a Comp Cam XS 290S 540/558, duration @ .50 intake: 252, exh: 260. The Dart heads look like they don't flow as much on the exhaust side as the AFR heads but I'm just looking at the charts, and what do you beleive? Both heads would be just fine for the street and should be in the 500hp range. Iv'e heard good things about both heads....comments....Thanks

eagle275

larrywalk

Auto trans or stick?
If auto, torque converter size?
If stick, 4-speed? Ratios? Other?
Rear end ratio?
Is mileage important?
Emission tests?

Gordonm

Here is some reading for you Jay

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...afr-heads.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...smokinhot.html

Gordonm

tko 500
3.55
no
no

Highhat

On a 383, with Dart 215s and that cam, I ran 11.9. Doesnt need offset rockers like AFR.

Gordonm

The AFRs don't need offset until you get to the 227s. I just put on 210 Eliminators on my 383 with standard rockers.

Jay, Highhats motor was the one I was talking to you about today.

73jst4fun

Thanks Gordon, interesting articles you sent me, I'll continue to do some more homework, probubly splitting hairs at this point and a few hp on the top end....

73jst4fun

Gordon told me about your engine you had for sale a while back, did you run drag radials and have 1 5/8" headers or 1 3/4" headers......

gkull

On my original 383 build I used Dart 215cc with the optional 2.08/1.625 valve with the factory porting. So they were actually something like 221cc. They never had a spark plug to header clearance problem like my later AFR 210 heads. Oil control is a big minus with AFR heads. I spent allot of time to machine them more correctly. The valve cover rails are too short so the gasket and your valve seals are swimming in oil all the time. Some body with the new Eliminator heads has to chime in and tell us if the spark plug angle and oil return has be fixed.

I just hate to buy crap that I have to dent my Super Comp header primary pipe for plug clearance and then my motor started smoking after a couple of thousand miles because of oil flowing over the top of the valve seals. So it required machining and new seals the first summer that owned the afr 210's.


My advice is to call dart and get the bigger valve option/weiand 7531 single plane/ 1 3/4 headers. Your intake and exhaust has to match the bigger port size of these heads

Highhat

Yes I sold it. Here was the setup then:

Holley HP750
Victor Jr.
Dart 215 Plat.
36/38* timing lock out
TH400 reverse manual
1 3/4" headers
2 1/2 dual exhaust into Flowmaster 40s (2 chamber)
3.73 rear
Drag radials 275/60/15 on original steel ralley rims (255/60/15 front)

It had a great idle, good vacuum, and ran my power brakes.

Ron

63mako

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy
Dart and AFR both make a quality product. AFR Eliminators are the best out of the box head made. They have addressed the issues of the original 195's. For the cost of the darts, porting and flow bench testing go with the AFR 195 Eliminators Competition ported They will blow away the darts ported.
Here are some independent tests. There are 3 flow bench tests on the Dart platinum 215's and 2 on the AFR 195 eliminator. There are also some tests on the Darts ported and the AFR 195 competition ported.
The darts with a 215 CC int port and a 75 CC ex port flow almost identical to the AFR 195 with a 195 CC int port and 65 CC exh port. Then there is a Dart 215 platinum listed with a 215 CC int port and a 65 CC ex port. It is no where near the flow of the AFR 195.
I would have to go with the head that has the same or better flow numbers with a 20 CC smaller intake port and a 10 CC smaller exhaust port. It is apparently a much better design and higher quality to do that.
From what I have seen you won't give anything up up top if flow numbers are similar. The smaller port will give you better throttle response in the lower RPM/Midrange.

gkull

I just looked up these guys and the 220 cc heads might be the best bang for the buck!

http://www.j-performance.com/index.p...d=47&Itemid=64

63mako

Those are Pro Comp castings.

gkull

Would ported procomp casting be a bad thing?

Highhat

I have always had Darts. Dont know which manufacturer's heads are better or worse. Darts were my first heads, and always stuck with 3 more pairs after for the always performed better than I expected.

I always wondered about AFRs and their impressive advertised flow numbers, but have never run into anyone actually running them at a dragstrip or street. Not that I get around much as others, but does anyone have track ETs associated with them?

gkull

Tony Momo is AFR's flow guru. He really does know his stuff. He personally ported sets of AFR heads that have won in the "Engine Masters" competition.

I know what you are saying about not seeing many cars AFR equipped at the track. Most people have Dart's, Brodix, Cainfield, and manfactures that you have never heard of or stuff from the NHRA prostock teams or the factor chevy race heads from road racing and NASCAR.

I was very disapointed by my afr 210's problems, but they did put out the power. Even when they got thrashed and had multiple broken valves and torn out valve seats. I sent the head back to AFR and they rewelded the chambers, re CNC milled....... and when it came back you could not tell the difference between it and the original one for only $600 or something like that.

63mako

I don't know. Have never heard anything good about them except from some of the vendors that are selling them. Maybe they are improved lately. There was a recent post showing them and the photos were scary. Will try to find it.

Edit: Here it is. Some of these problems would be addressed with porting others would not be.
As I said I have not used them.
They are about 1/2 the price of the major brands. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1572507639-post10.html

Here is the thread
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...post1572507639

Gordonm

Here is my new set of AFR 210 Eliminators with the headers and plugs in. As you can see there is not an issue with clearance at all. These are 1 3/4 Hooker Super Comps.

The new stainless header studs I just bought are not a good fit. Some of these will have to be shortened and the nuts and washer modified in order for them to fit.

Drivers side




Passenger side

gkull

Gordon, Gordon, Gordon, I keep posting and telling everybody the header studs required are the Universal fit 5/16th 6 point nuts!

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Catalog/Catalog.html

I can't remember if mine are 100-1108 or the inch long 100-1110