lars

After waiting 2-1/2 months for Hooker to deliver a set of polished SS Sidemount Headers (after promising each week that they were shipping the next week), I have finally taken delivery of these little gems.

I guess I should realize that if I'm only paying $1,000 for a set of headers, I shouldn't get my hopes up in terms of fit and quality... I mean, what could you possibly expect for only a grand..? A small block in a Vette chassis must be a pretty rare combination since Hooker can't figure out how to make them fit. Nor do they care.

My engine is a 400 small block in a fully rebuilt '64 frame/chassis. Engine mounts are new, the engine is in the correct location (which I have verified dimensionally), and all chassis parts are stock. Building a set of headers that fit this engine/chassis combination is not a difficult thing to do. Nor is verifying product quality and fit of the end product.

Here are my factual observations of this American manufacturing joke and travesty:

The appearance of the headers as received was marginal. The welds are wire-fed MIG welds, and look like they were done by my 12-year-old grand daughter on career day at school (actually, her TIG welds look better than these Hooker MIG welds). The polish job is inferior to what I do on my "Eastwood" polish wheel setup in my garage, so I re-did the entire polish job before mounting the headers.

The headers don't come close to fitting. They bolt up to the heads just fine, but they interfere with chassis components by as much as a full 1/4 inch. No kidding. Hooker can't build a small block Chevy header that fits within a freakin' quarter of an inch. Do they not have a jig...? There is a full 1/4 interference with the steering box, the pitman arm, and the idler arm. 3 header tubes have a 1/4" interference and have to be modified to avoid the chassis components. There are several inches of free space on the opposite sides of the tubes - it's not a tight fit at all - Hooker just plain ran the tubes in the wrong place and ran them right into the suspension and steering components. Simply garbage design and manufacturing. No excuse for this.

Once the tubes were modified to avoid massive chassis contact, it was apparent that my Hooker sidepipes (for an additional $430) were not going to fit: The exit point of the headers did not match the bracket configuration of the pipes, resulting in the pipes hanging at a severe angle to the body: they did not run parallel to the centerline of the car in the vertical or horizontal axis. Not even close. Upon measuring the location of the left and right header collectors, the right collector was 1" (ONE INCH) higher than the left collector. Further, the right collector was 1/2" further outboard from the frame than the left collector, for a total dissimilar displacement from right to left of an inch and a half. You gotta be kidding me.

I have now fabricated new frame standoffs for mounting the sidepipes so they run parallel with the frame and with the collectors. I have used a Porta-Power, concrete anchors, and hydraulic rams with chains to bend the collectors into their proper location so they point straight aft. I have modified my header tubes to avoid chassis contact. And I have polished my tubes and headers. I have thrown away the garbage gaskets that were supplied with the headers (after all, I only paid $1000, why should I expect good quality gaskets for that price..?) and I have installed good gaskets that don't leak.

When I finally went to install the sidepipe clamp bolts that secure the sidepipes to the header collectors, I found that Hooker had welded the bolt clamp hole closed during their sloppy welding - I guess the 7-year-old on field day at the factory that day was not properly supervised. I removed the pipe and opened up the hole, removing the weld slag, on my drill press. Upon attempting to install the hardware, I found that Hooker had supplied fine thread bolts with coarse thread locknuts. They really did not need to spend the money on locknuts since the coarse thread bolts will lock themselves onto the fine threads bolts with no problem.

Hooker and Holley should be ashamed of themselves. This type of "product quality" is a disgrace to American manufacturing and an insult to those of us paying hard-earned money for an expected standard of quality.

Shame on you Hooker & Holley. I hope Barry Grant and the custom header builders kick your butt.

(Hooker is owned by Holley, for those who don't know)

Lars Grimsrud
Denver

blue427

I read that the hookers are now made in Mexico

skids

Guess I got lucky. About two years I put on the SS sidemounts also. All I had to do was send back three pair until I received a "good" pair. The finish was good, but the tubes,where they are butt welded together, were never metal finished. So you had ugly weld showing,right where the tubes exit fender.

lars

If that's the case, I'll let the American Manufacturing Industry off the hook, but still hold Holley and Hooker responsible for manufacturing garbage products and for making fools out of its consumers & customers.

eagle275

Lars, I had to go through 3 sets of Hooker Super Comps before I could get a close fit for my new crate ZZ4. I got them from Summit, and their customer service was great, thankfully. Then, we had to heat both headers to get them away from the floors. If I had it to do over again, I would have done something else. My $.02

MotorHead

I have said this before but it I'll say it again. It's not like Hooker makes space shuttle parts and does headers on the side for a few extra bucks. This is what they do.

The C3 has been around for 40 years and you would think they could make a set that fits. But they don't, it's not Mexico's fault it goes straight back to Hooker who never designed them to fit in the first place.

I had a set I had to ding real bad by the steering box and smaller one by the idler arm. I also had to add a piece into the primary tube on the #8 cylinder so I could put the spark plug boot on

They are a big company and you and I are little people and they could give a crap if the headers fit or not they still sell them no problems.

I had some guys make me a set of custom headers and they fit after a couple of tries no problems. If Hooker had a C3 and couple of guys with any talent they would have headers that actually fit our cars in about 2 days or less.

Here is the custom SS headers flange compared to the Hooker flange and these guys were going to sell these headers for less than the painted Hookers, too bad it never happened, I do have a set of polished 1 7/8" headers that actually fit my Vette perfect

Hooker flange and Custom flange below it need I say more ?

eagle275

Motorhead - are those guys going to produce any of those 1 7/8" headers for sale? I would sure be interested. BTW, would they fit a built 350?

baxsom

I think thats why when i get ready to buy sidepipes im getting them from that superpowers guy on here.

Bob Heine

I bought Hooker Super Comp undercar headers for my BB from Jet-Hot. The headers fit OK but were different from the ones I took off. The new ones have the flange clocked so the single bolt is on the bottom, reducing ground clearance by a small amount. That didn't bother me but when I went to make some new adapter pipes, the driver side had a clearance problem. I expected to be able to come straight off the header flange but that would have required a tunnel in the floorboard. Might be my engine mounts but the old set didn't have this problem.

one-72

I purchaced the ss side pipes 8/09 and they bolted up perfectly.
Although they welded the clamp on the pipe 3in. off and I had to repair it.
Must have had mine built closer to the middle of the week.
We still need to buy American when ever possible.Good luck boys!

MotorHead

My only thought on that was they must have made the small block headers first because they are clocked correctly with the one bolt at the top for maximum ground clearance.

They must have looked at that and said "no no no that actually works lets clock the big block headers so the lowest point of the flange will hit speed bumps" because the big block headers hang lower in the first place



Here's where I had to add a piece in the primary to be able to connect the spark plug wire to the #8 plug

Here's the tool I had to make to remove the #6 plug without removing the whole header


Here is the tiny little ding I had to put in the #7 pipe to clear the steering box


I think you would really have to try hard to f up a set of headers more than this. They would give the Chinese a good run for the money in the useless / parts that appear they should work but don't, department

Bob Heine

Motorhead,

I know I shouldn't feel better but I think yours makes mine look good. Of course I may have to invest in a front end lift kit to be able to drive mine in parking lots (at least a skidplate).

Bugman Jeff

If I had to guess, I'd say that these are tacked together in a jig, removed from the jig, then fully welded. Doing it this way allows them to warp and twist all over the place, giving us the inconsistancy we're seeing. The higher quality headers out there are often fully welded while still in the jig, keeping warping to a minimum.

I've spend enough time in the automotive aftermarket to know that price does not automatically equal quality, especially in American manufacturing. Even if these are now made in mexico, there are still pleanty of over priced poorly made American products. As much as I try to support my country, in the cost VS quality battle American made stuff often doesnt fare very well.

street62

[QUOWTE=MotorHead;1574392555]My only thought on that was they must have made the small block headers first because they are clocked correctly with the one bolt at the top for maximum ground clearance.

They must have looked at that and said "no no no that actually works lets clock the big block headers so the lowest point of the flange will hit speed bumps" because the big block headers hang lower in the first place



Here's where I had to add a piece in the primary to be able to connect the spark plug wire to the #8 plug

Here's the tool I had to make to remove the #6 plug without removing the whole header


Here is the tiny little ding I had to put in the #7 pipe to clear the steering box


I think you would really have to try hard to f up a set of headers more than this. They would give the Chinese a good run for the money in the useless / parts that appear they should work but don't, department [/QUOTE]

What brand of cyl. heads are you useing. They look like angle plug.I just use a 5/8 box wrench with straight or angle plug heads, it's a lot easier on my c1 with a 406 ci and 1 3/4 tubes.

MotorHead

They are AFR 227cc angle plugs, I know Hooker probably says they won't fit angle plugs or this head or that but the angles on different heads are also different.

They point in different directions up or down or from side to side, some will work better than others. I might let them off the hook for plugs even though I did have problems with a set of straight, no angle plug heads too but the rest of it like pipes hitting parts etc is just plain BS

my 76 ray

At the risk of getting a lot of people PO'd at me, I just have to say that as long as people modify a product to make it fit, then the company has no incentive to make the product fit. If Hooker got every set of headers that didn't fit shipped back to them, they would make a better fitting product or they wouldn't be in business.

l88rocket

I have quit using all Holley products there crap. Holley is in the middle of filing bankrupcy also if you all didnt know.

Aussie79vette

Hey Lars, thanks for the detailed thread on your problems with Hookers, sorry you have had so much trouble.
I am searching around for the best SS Headers and Side Pipes for my 79 and was almost going to go the way of Hookers as I have found a little bit extra spending $$$.
As I am in Australia I have to try and make the right purchase the first time, this information has helped me heaps.
I am sure now I will be going with Superpowers for my new system the same as baxsom.
Josh has replied to all my emails quickly and came back with a good price.

Bugman Jeff

At this point, these headers are almost pure profit for Hooker. The design is nearly 40 years old, so all R&D and tooling costs have been paid for long ago. I would speculate that given the quantity they purchase in, they have maybe $50 in materials, and at absolute most $20 in labor if they are actually mexican made. At that cost, they can throw away a dozen sets before they start losing money on your purchase. Ah, the wonders of Capitalism

warsurfer

I was very fortunate with mine, I looked everywhere and couldn't find a set. I read somewhere that Jet Hot stocks certain headers so I gave them a call. They had a set that a customer had coated but never picked up and had been on the shelf at least 10 years. They sold them to me for half price after they re-coated them. The only fitment issue was the typical 'dent' you have to do for the steering knuckle.