Rebuilt OEM Steering Box-Blueprinted!
10-23-2010, 08:20 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Rebuilt OEM Steering Box-Blueprinted!
I just recently had my OEM steering box in my 78 L-82 4 speed (65,000 miles today) rebuilt and blue printed by GTR1999 and all I can say is holy cow-an incredible difference. Gary is a true craftsman and just a great guy! Before the details, a little background:
I bought my car in 1983 with 25,000 miles on it from the original owner. The car was 100% stock and original and still is basically with the exception of a Holley 650 spreadbore 4175 Q-jet replacement (1985), 2.5 true duals/shorty headers, no emissions at all, roller rockers and a few other external items on the engine.
The suspension is 100% OEM design but upgraded where possible. Every item in the front suspension has been replaced or upgraded over the years (ball joints, tie rods, idler arm) poly upper and lower control arm bushings, poly sway bar mounting and endlink bushings on the OEM 1 1/8 F-41 sway bar, 550 springs 1 inch lower, rag joint (early 90's) and 255/45/17 ZR ultra high performance tires. The steering box, power steering control valve, and steering piston rod are all OEM (nothing leaks BTW).
I run Bilstein HD shocks in front and Bilstein Sports in the rear with my 360 monospring (installed in 1986) and heim joint competition strut rods. The car rides great, not harsh as one would expect. HOWEVER,
I just felt that the steering was not as tight as it should be. Enter GTR 1999: Gary and I spoke on and off for about 1.5 years on the phone and last week I decided to pull the box and drive it to Gary in New Haven CT (I am in RI). Gary met me on a SUNDAY morning at 9 AM and took the box apart in front of me and spent 2 hours talking about my box and what he can do-unbelieveable!!
Gary told me that the box was in very good shape and he could reuse my OEM gears (saved me $245). Over the past week he completely disassembled, cleaned every reusable part, installed a custom bushing to eliminate shaft play, new bearing *****, etc and send me pictures all along the way on the internet.
Here is the IMPORTANT part: He blueprints the box by assemblying the gears and other components so that there is virtually zero play in the box, including shaft end play. When the box was new from GM these steps were not done and are certainly not done with rebuilt standard boxes.
The result: installed the box today after picking it up from Gary yesterday. I changed nothing else so the before and after observations have to be all the blue printed rebuilt box. I had about 1 inch play in the steering wheel before the rebuild. There is zero play in the steering now, no corrections needed in hard cornering, everything feels tight, braking is dead straight! The car drives better than when it was new.
Lastly, if you have car with miles (I only had 65,000 miles on the box but remember these boxes were NOT blueprinted/hand adjusted from the factory) and all the other components are good, I would consider GTR1999's services. As for the rack and pinion crowd, I would say that my steering is almost as good now in my 33 year old car as my 2008 Crysler 300 (rack and pinion), better than my 1994 Mustang GT (rack and pinion), almost as good as my 2001 Grand prix (rack and pinion). IT's really good now!
I would recommend folks having this service even on low miles cars like mine since it is a guaranteed improvement over the OEM GM box.
Thanx GTR1999-great work Gary!
I bought my car in 1983 with 25,000 miles on it from the original owner. The car was 100% stock and original and still is basically with the exception of a Holley 650 spreadbore 4175 Q-jet replacement (1985), 2.5 true duals/shorty headers, no emissions at all, roller rockers and a few other external items on the engine.
The suspension is 100% OEM design but upgraded where possible. Every item in the front suspension has been replaced or upgraded over the years (ball joints, tie rods, idler arm) poly upper and lower control arm bushings, poly sway bar mounting and endlink bushings on the OEM 1 1/8 F-41 sway bar, 550 springs 1 inch lower, rag joint (early 90's) and 255/45/17 ZR ultra high performance tires. The steering box, power steering control valve, and steering piston rod are all OEM (nothing leaks BTW).
I run Bilstein HD shocks in front and Bilstein Sports in the rear with my 360 monospring (installed in 1986) and heim joint competition strut rods. The car rides great, not harsh as one would expect. HOWEVER,
I just felt that the steering was not as tight as it should be. Enter GTR 1999: Gary and I spoke on and off for about 1.5 years on the phone and last week I decided to pull the box and drive it to Gary in New Haven CT (I am in RI). Gary met me on a SUNDAY morning at 9 AM and took the box apart in front of me and spent 2 hours talking about my box and what he can do-unbelieveable!!
Gary told me that the box was in very good shape and he could reuse my OEM gears (saved me $245). Over the past week he completely disassembled, cleaned every reusable part, installed a custom bushing to eliminate shaft play, new bearing *****, etc and send me pictures all along the way on the internet.
Here is the IMPORTANT part: He blueprints the box by assemblying the gears and other components so that there is virtually zero play in the box, including shaft end play. When the box was new from GM these steps were not done and are certainly not done with rebuilt standard boxes.
The result: installed the box today after picking it up from Gary yesterday. I changed nothing else so the before and after observations have to be all the blue printed rebuilt box. I had about 1 inch play in the steering wheel before the rebuild. There is zero play in the steering now, no corrections needed in hard cornering, everything feels tight, braking is dead straight! The car drives better than when it was new.
Lastly, if you have car with miles (I only had 65,000 miles on the box but remember these boxes were NOT blueprinted/hand adjusted from the factory) and all the other components are good, I would consider GTR1999's services. As for the rack and pinion crowd, I would say that my steering is almost as good now in my 33 year old car as my 2008 Crysler 300 (rack and pinion), better than my 1994 Mustang GT (rack and pinion), almost as good as my 2001 Grand prix (rack and pinion). IT's really good now!
I would recommend folks having this service even on low miles cars like mine since it is a guaranteed improvement over the OEM GM box.
Thanx GTR1999-great work Gary!
10-23-2010, 11:36 PM
#2
Drifting
I just recently had my OEM steering box in my 78 L-82 4 speed (65,000 miles today) rebuilt and blue printed by GTR1999 and all I can say is holy cow-an incredible difference. Gary is a true craftsman and just a great guy! Before the details, a little background:
I bought my car in 1983 with 25,000 miles on it from the original owner. The car was 100% stock and original and still is basically with the exception of a Holley 650 spreadbore 4175 Q-jet replacement (1985), 2.5 true duals/shorty headers, no emissions at all, roller rockers and a few other external items on the engine.
The suspension is 100% OEM design but upgraded where possible. Every item in the front suspension has been replaced or upgraded over the years (ball joints, tie rods, idler arm) poly upper and lower control arm bushings, poly sway bar mounting and endlink bushings on the OEM 1 1/8 F-41 sway bar, 550 springs 1 inch lower, rag joint (early 90's) and 255/45/17 ZR ultra high performance tires. The steering box, power steering control valve, and steering piston rod are all OEM (nothing leaks BTW).
I run Bilstein HD shocks in front and Bilstein Sports in the rear with my 360 monospring (installed in 1986) and heim joint competition strut rods. The car rides great, not harsh as one would expect. HOWEVER,
I just felt that the steering was not as tight as it should be. Enter GTR 1999: Gary and I spoke on and off for about 1.5 years on the phone and last week I decided to pull the box and drive it to Gary in New Haven CT (I am in RI). Gary met me on a SUNDAY morning at 9 AM and took the box apart in front of me and spent 2 hours talking about my box and what he can do-unbelieveable!!
Gary told me that the box was in very good shape and he could reuse my OEM gears (saved me $245). Over the past week he completely disassembled, cleaned every reusable part, installed a custom bushing to eliminate shaft play, new bearing *****, etc and send me pictures all along the way on the internet.
Here is the IMPORTANT part: He blueprints the box by assemblying the gears and other components so that there is virtually zero play in the box, including shaft end play. When the box was new from GM these steps were not done and are certainly not done with rebuilt standard boxes.
The result: installed the box today after picking it up from Gary yesterday. I changed nothing else so the before and after observations have to be all the blue printed rebuilt box. I had about 1 inch play in the steering wheel before the rebuild. There is zero play in the steering now, no corrections needed in hard cornering, everything feels tight, braking is dead straight! The car drives better than when it was new.
Lastly, if you have car with miles (I only had 65,000 miles on the box but remember these boxes were NOT blueprinted/hand adjusted from the factory) and all the other components are good, I would consider GTR1999's services. As for the rack and pinion crowd, I would say that my steering is almost as good now in my 33 year old car as my 2008 Crysler 300 (rack and pinion), better than my 1994 Mustang GT (rack and pinion), almost as good as my 2001 Grand prix (rack and pinion). IT's really good now!
I would recommend folks having this service even on low miles cars like mine since it is a guaranteed improvement over the OEM GM box.
Thanx GTR1999-great work Gary!
I bought my car in 1983 with 25,000 miles on it from the original owner. The car was 100% stock and original and still is basically with the exception of a Holley 650 spreadbore 4175 Q-jet replacement (1985), 2.5 true duals/shorty headers, no emissions at all, roller rockers and a few other external items on the engine.
The suspension is 100% OEM design but upgraded where possible. Every item in the front suspension has been replaced or upgraded over the years (ball joints, tie rods, idler arm) poly upper and lower control arm bushings, poly sway bar mounting and endlink bushings on the OEM 1 1/8 F-41 sway bar, 550 springs 1 inch lower, rag joint (early 90's) and 255/45/17 ZR ultra high performance tires. The steering box, power steering control valve, and steering piston rod are all OEM (nothing leaks BTW).
I run Bilstein HD shocks in front and Bilstein Sports in the rear with my 360 monospring (installed in 1986) and heim joint competition strut rods. The car rides great, not harsh as one would expect. HOWEVER,
I just felt that the steering was not as tight as it should be. Enter GTR 1999: Gary and I spoke on and off for about 1.5 years on the phone and last week I decided to pull the box and drive it to Gary in New Haven CT (I am in RI). Gary met me on a SUNDAY morning at 9 AM and took the box apart in front of me and spent 2 hours talking about my box and what he can do-unbelieveable!!
Gary told me that the box was in very good shape and he could reuse my OEM gears (saved me $245). Over the past week he completely disassembled, cleaned every reusable part, installed a custom bushing to eliminate shaft play, new bearing *****, etc and send me pictures all along the way on the internet.
Here is the IMPORTANT part: He blueprints the box by assemblying the gears and other components so that there is virtually zero play in the box, including shaft end play. When the box was new from GM these steps were not done and are certainly not done with rebuilt standard boxes.
The result: installed the box today after picking it up from Gary yesterday. I changed nothing else so the before and after observations have to be all the blue printed rebuilt box. I had about 1 inch play in the steering wheel before the rebuild. There is zero play in the steering now, no corrections needed in hard cornering, everything feels tight, braking is dead straight! The car drives better than when it was new.
Lastly, if you have car with miles (I only had 65,000 miles on the box but remember these boxes were NOT blueprinted/hand adjusted from the factory) and all the other components are good, I would consider GTR1999's services. As for the rack and pinion crowd, I would say that my steering is almost as good now in my 33 year old car as my 2008 Crysler 300 (rack and pinion), better than my 1994 Mustang GT (rack and pinion), almost as good as my 2001 Grand prix (rack and pinion). IT's really good now!
I would recommend folks having this service even on low miles cars like mine since it is a guaranteed improvement over the OEM GM box.
Thanx GTR1999-great work Gary!
I definitely second the above. Installed one of Gary's blueprinted boxes in the 68 last month. Night and day difference so much tighter and smoother. I wish I replaced the box sooner.
10-24-2010, 12:43 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
GREAT story jb78L-82
I am seriously considering sending my steering box to Gary this winter. (it snowed yesterday
) I think this is the encouragement I needed.
shmoky
I am seriously considering sending my steering box to Gary this winter. (it snowed yesterday) I think this is the encouragement I needed. shmoky
10-24-2010, 09:16 AM
#5
Racer
10-24-2010, 12:10 PM
#6
Team Owner
last week I decided to pull the box and drive it to Gary in New Haven CT (I am in RI).
ok... just kidding.
I have thought about what ONE THING would make my 68 more fun to drive... more power? working windshield wipers? a few less rattles? a working heater? No, the one thing that would make my 68 much more fun to drive would be tight steering.
Still saving the pennies for a box rebuild. Not much in the budget right now.
Plan on having him do mine when I get to it.
11-23-2010, 07:34 PM
#10
Racer
Member Since: Aug 2010
Location: Fresh Meadows New York
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how hard is it to remove the box? i drive past new haven to see my gal..thinking to remove the box drop it off and re install... sounds like one of those refreshments that after its done ya wonder why it was never done before...jeff
11-23-2010, 08:02 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
The toughest part for me was removing the pitman arm from the PS control valve without damaging the seal boot on the PS Control valve. The box itself is just 3 bolts and I separated the rag joint by removing the nuts that hold it together and then loosened the rag joint that was attached to the column-slipped it off. I brought the box to Gary with the pitman arm attached and with the rag joint half attached to the steering box, as he requested. Not that bad BUT I don't know if I would risk doing it away from your home base. I would take it out at home, drive to the GF with another car, drop off to Gary, and have him either complete the rebuild in a short time if he can or he can ship it back to you to reinstall.
11-23-2010, 10:35 PM
#13
Racer
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thanks JB.. yes i would remove it at home and drop it off and pick it up at next visit... the removal may be out of bounds for me tho... will think of a way around it... jeff
11-24-2010, 07:16 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
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Does anyone know if there is a supporting vendor that performs the same service as Gary? (i.e. rebuild your original steering gear and return it to you). I know that some supporting vendors will sell you a rebuilt gear if you send them a core. But that is not the same as Gary's service (particularly if you want the gear to be close or better than OEM specs for your particular C2 or C3 model.) Contrary to most vendor catalogues, the gears were not exactly the same from one year to the next (1963-1982).
I asked a very similar question on the Supporting Member/Steering Committee site but no one has seen fit to answer me over there.
Jim
I asked a very similar question on the Supporting Member/Steering Committee site but no one has seen fit to answer me over there.
Jim
11-24-2010, 08:07 AM
#15
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Does anyone know if there is a supporting vendor that performs the same service as Gary? (i.e. rebuild your original steering gear and return it to you). I know that some supporting vendors will sell you a rebuilt gear if you send them a core. But that is not the same as Gary's service (particularly if you want the gear to be close or better than OEM specs for your particular C2 or C3 model.) Contrary to most vendor catalogues, the gears were not exactly the same from one year to the next (1963-1982).
I asked a very similar question on the Supporting Member/Steering Committee site but no one has seen fit to answer me over there.
Jim
I asked a very similar question on the Supporting Member/Steering Committee site but no one has seen fit to answer me over there.
Jim
Which brings me to another point: I really don't have anything against rack and pinion steering-in fact I recognize it's superior feel and responsiveness in more modern cars-I have a 2001 Grand Prix, 1994 Mustang GT, and a 2008 Chrysler 300-all with rack and pinion, also many other cars as well over the last 15 years. However, with my 78, I have found that these cars are quite good with the recirculating ball steering and the OEM steering mechanism when setup correctly-I have proven that to myself, not you guys obviously! For the street, the OEM setup is really good!
I can see that the rack and pinion conversions would be beneficial to road racers being one myself, but I just am not comfortable with scrapping the OEM system for the street. Yes the 12:1 ratio of R&P would help for autocrossing and to a much lesser extent road racing than the 16:1 ratio of the OEM steering box but not on the street-no effect on play in the wheel. I also don't necessarily endorse the idea of using modern components in classic cars. If you put a chassis and drivetrain from a C4 on a C3 vette, is it really a C3 any longer? I guess a prefer to modernize the OEM components where ever possible to maximize the potential of the C3's and to hopefully preserve as much as possible what is original. Just my opinion and my experience. Not Gospel just something to thing about!
03-05-2012, 10:50 PM
#18
Drifting
