Has anyone ever tried Leaded Gas?
12-13-2010, 03:44 PM
#41
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Aviation still has lead in there fuel, "100 low lead", contains a small amount of tetra-ethyl lead (TEL), a lead compound that reduces gasoline's tendency to spontaneously explode (detonation or "knock") under high loads, high temperatures and high pressures. Sustained detonation causes catastrophic engine failure. Engine failure in a plane with one engine is not any fun.
12-13-2010, 05:05 PM
#42
Race Director
True, but there are many newer octane boosting additives that will get you to 100 octane without TEL. So why is TEL the only approved way for avgas?
I think Mike is on to something. The market is small (only piston engine aircraft use 100LL, jet fuel has no-lead). Lots of engines built or designed way back when, and it's too expensive to re-certify.
I think Mike is on to something. The market is small (only piston engine aircraft use 100LL, jet fuel has no-lead). Lots of engines built or designed way back when, and it's too expensive to re-certify.
12-13-2010, 05:29 PM
#43
Team Owner
Aviation still has lead in there fuel, "100 low lead", contains a small amount of tetra-ethyl lead (TEL), a lead compound that reduces gasoline's tendency to spontaneously explode (detonation or "knock") under high loads, high temperatures and high pressures. Sustained detonation causes catastrophic engine failure. Engine failure in a plane with one engine is not any fun.
morons for the past 40 years have been telling me how their power must nearly double when they put it in
Unless you live in Colorado's Rocky National park where the road is 12,000 feet above sea level AV gas will not work right.
aviation fuels are made to burn at higher altitude.
I bring home leaded 110 octane Sunnoco race gas and blend it with local 91 super unleaded to end up with about 100 octane for my Vette on race days
12-13-2010, 05:59 PM
#44
Team Owner
True, but there are many newer octane boosting additives that will get you to 100 octane without TEL. So why is TEL the only approved way for avgas?
I think Mike is on to something. The market is small (only piston engine aircraft use 100LL, jet fuel has no-lead). Lots of engines built or designed way back when, and it's too expensive to re-certify.
I think Mike is on to something. The market is small (only piston engine aircraft use 100LL, jet fuel has no-lead). Lots of engines built or designed way back when, and it's too expensive to re-certify.
Only Morons put AV Gas in their cars morons for the past 40 years have been telling me how their power must nearly double when they put it in
Unless you live in Colorado's Rocky National park where the road is 12,000 feet above sea level AV gas will not work right.
aviation fuels are made to burn at higher altitude.
I bring home leaded 110 octane Sunnoco race gas and blend it with local 91 super unleaded to end up with about 100 octane for my Vette on race days
morons for the past 40 years have been telling me how their power must nearly double when they put it in Unless you live in Colorado's Rocky National park where the road is 12,000 feet above sea level AV gas will not work right.
aviation fuels are made to burn at higher altitude.
I bring home leaded 110 octane Sunnoco race gas and blend it with local 91 super unleaded to end up with about 100 octane for my Vette on race days
12-13-2010, 07:04 PM
#45
True, but there are many newer octane boosting additives that will get you to 100 octane without TEL. So why is TEL the only approved way for avgas?
I think Mike is on to something. The market is small (only piston engine aircraft use 100LL, jet fuel has no-lead). Lots of engines built or designed way back when, and it's too expensive to re-certify.
I think Mike is on to something. The market is small (only piston engine aircraft use 100LL, jet fuel has no-lead). Lots of engines built or designed way back when, and it's too expensive to re-certify.
Note that Jet A-1 is not gasoline at all, it's much more similar to kerosene.
[B]
Unless you live in Colorado's Rocky National park where the road is 12,000 feet above sea level AV gas will not work right.
aviation fuels are made to burn at higher altitude.
I bring home leaded 110 octane Sunnoco race gas and blend it with local 91 super unleaded to end up with about 100 octane for my Vette on race days
Unless you live in Colorado's Rocky National park where the road is 12,000 feet above sea level AV gas will not work right.
aviation fuels are made to burn at higher altitude.
I bring home leaded 110 octane Sunnoco race gas and blend it with local 91 super unleaded to end up with about 100 octane for my Vette on race days
Sorry, but that's false and just more myth. There's nothing magic or mysterious about Avgas. It burns just fine in car engines.
If you car runs fine on pump gas, why do you put 'race gas' in it?
Ah, I must have missed that.......
12-13-2010, 08:36 PM
#47
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You guys are right on about the vapor lock problem, that happens even in the summer time with some of our fuel injected airplanes. Most of the aircraft where built in the 70's and what is needed the to change the engines over is not worth the cost of the airplane. An engine in the most common aircraft Cessna 172, is at least 25K new.
12-13-2010, 09:02 PM
#48
Team Owner
My motor is kind of on the edge with over 11/1 CR. It runs better with sea level air when the motor is really loaded and the higher water temps. I just don't want a hickup. I can also run the advance a little higher to around 34 -35 degrees vs about 32 on 91. The new oxy race fuels are also supposed to put out a few more hp.
12-13-2010, 10:14 PM
#50
12-13-2010, 10:38 PM
#51
Drifting
Yep, the USAF wanted something less volitale. I pumped many gallons into F-4's,F-15's, and F-117A's, even some Canadian F-18's. The Navy likes JP-8, but it's more expensive, but better for carriers, rtc, because of it's lower flash point. That stuff(JP-4) burns hot - had to put out some fires.
12-13-2010, 10:42 PM
#52
Le Mans Master
I found an interesting article, here, from Popular Mechanics on this new-fangled unleaded fuel. It's from 1971. Kind of an interesting read.
12-14-2010, 08:20 AM
#54
Team Owner
Mike Ward, another reason I burn 110 quite often is because it's free $8 dollars a gallon fuel. So I had an incentive to build an 11.7 C/R motor. I got a job at a race car shop about 5 years ago. When cars come back from race tracks they might sit for a month or more. So the shop drains the 110 race gas. They were putting it in 55 gallon drums and returning it to a waste fuel place. So I ask if I could use it. So I built a motor that could use it better. I just drain race cars over to my vette or 5 gallon jugs for my friends.
12-14-2010, 12:01 PM
#56
Race Director
Nothing to do with government bureaucracy. Most aircraft engines that require high octane leaded fuel were designed, certified and manufactured back in the 50s, 60s and 70s. The cost of redesigning and certifying affordable (key word affordable) engines that would run with the same power output on lower octane gas without damage is something no manufacturer wants to undertake.
The cost of modifying existing engines to run on low octane gas is horrendous, frequently exceeding the value of the aircraft itself never mind having to accept greatly reduced power output.
Since the market share of avgas is tiny (0.5%) as compared to cars, there's not much to be gained by forcing it out of production.
The cost of modifying existing engines to run on low octane gas is horrendous, frequently exceeding the value of the aircraft itself never mind having to accept greatly reduced power output.
Since the market share of avgas is tiny (0.5%) as compared to cars, there's not much to be gained by forcing it out of production.
been flying for about 10 years now....dead nuts on...
12-15-2010, 08:12 AM
#59
Race Director
Really, Gene? I grew up with leaded gas (Sweden didn't go unleaded until the late 80's) and the exhaust stank. I was thrilled when unleaded and cats finally became law and the stench went away.
12-15-2010, 10:17 AM
#60
Team Owner
summer no problem.....
now with electronic FI, and a O2 sensor, there is no excuse for not having leaded gas and lean burn ratios....Norval here long time ago set his carb for 17-1 ratio with his then hot new item, the LM-1 O2 sensor....but he was carbed.....
the thing that reduced pollution was ELECTRONIC F/I nothing to do with leaded or not, but my statement stands on that more crude/gallon needed and of course everyone noticed the fuel economy went into the crapper during the 70's.....
I read that POP Science? article above, and it does not mention that piece of information about the more crude/gallon used in refining....wonder why?? it's such a obvious problem.....
green weenies in action....it's political, really....
