milo30

I decided replace my 350 with a 454. I want an engine that I built and not a crate engine so I won't be considering those. This is pretty much going to be a budget build up. I have a lot of other parts like radiator, pulleys etc. to get as well as some other areas of the vette to work on so I'm not going crazy on the engine build. I know that I can stroke it, put nitrous on, etc to get some HP but am not interested in doing that. My biggest problem is that it has been over 25 years since I built an engine, so I have forgotten a lot of stuff.

The car is going to be a street car and might see the strip once or twice a year for fun with no slicks. Where I would like to be is somewhere close to 450HP with a lopey idle and able to run on pump gas. Just a fun weekender type.

What I am starting with is a disassembled 454 with a 361959 casting and 781 heads. I am not having the engine bored unless it needs it. Hopefully just a good honing job. Hopefully will get things down to the machine shop in the next couple of weeks to have the block checked out and make sure that it is good condition and start the work on it. I figure the valves should go up to 2.19/1.88.

I'm open to suggestions on a direction to go with cams and everything else. Some of you guys that are experienced in BB builds want to chime in and give some advise on an economical build up?

I don't really have a firm budget on this. If the numbers get too high then I'll just have to extend the time frame of completing it. I just don't need to put unnecessary money into it to make it some 600 HP monster.

Any suggestions on specifics at the machine shop before I go in?

I know this is pretty vague explanation but look at it as I am giving you a blank canvass to work on.

3JsVette

I by no means have the expertise to advise you on your engine build but you may find this Car Craft article helpfull since it's right at your intended power range and the total cost is low budget. http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ild/index.html

midyearvette

youre' spinnin' your wheels here....you will spend all most as much re doing your heads to flow what you can buy out of the box....you if lucky, will have 1500-2000 in the short block including new pistons alone if everything is up to snuff and by that time you are 1500 away from a crate, that is if you want some power...jmo ..good luck....

badrad

Here's a pretty good article, http://www.idavette.net/hib/vette_bbfh.htm.

Les

I agree with your thinking on larger valves, whether you upgrade your current heads to use the bigger valves or go aftermarket to heads that already have them. If you stay with the heads you have pocket porting would also be worth doing. If you price those mods along with a quality 3 angle valve job you may find that some nice aluminum heads don't cost all that much more.

It's hard to nail down a cam choice without knowing your rear gears and transmission. Generally a FT hydraulic with duration around 230+ degrees at .050 and lift around .525-.550 should get you there. If you don't have the L-88 hood your intake choices will be very limited and will also limit performance to some degree, but you can still hit your goal with an original bigblock hood. If you're interested I can look up my old cam specs for you. It was a FT hydraulic Crower that pulled hard to 6000+ RPMs and ran low 12s at 112+ mph with the stock intake and upgraded iron heads like you're thinking of.

milo30

Sorry I forgot to mention that my gears are 370:1 and a TH400 tranny. As far as the hoods go I am planning on changing out hoods

BryanB75

450hp is not that hard for the 454. I'm running 781 heads on the 454 in my 80 Malibu and it's making 600hp. I'm running a solid cam. If it's not going to be a racer you could skip the steel crank if you don't have one already. Invest in some ARP bolts. but a good hyd cam, 10:1 comp and some pocket porting on those heads should have any problem hitting you goal.

milo30

The cam is mainly what I am trying to decide on. Not sure if which type I am going with. I have seen alot of budget
Builds on TV and magazines but not sure how good of a setup they are.
I could have gone crate but I want to build my own. I still think that I can do it cheaper than a crate engine anyway. I will keep track of the receipts and see where I end up.

Les

If you go with the L-88 hood you'll have room for a good high rise intake. That combined with some worked over heads and a bit more cam would get you closer to 500 streetable HP at no more cost. I don't see a downside to that.

427Hotrod

Got your email the other day....sorry I'm late!

You've got a good start with the hard parts. Have you selected a machine shop yet? I now live north of Ft Worth instead of Houston, but I still get my machine work done down there. There are a couple of good ones in Dallas area though, Shoot a note to Zwede here on the Forum. He knows of a very high quality one.

I know you're looking for a budget deal here...but if you're going to buy some pistons, it really makes better sense to bore it. Now...if the bores are close..you could use some forged pistons made out of 2618 material. They need a looser bore so *maybe* someone could hone a few .000's out of the std bore to make them work. But truthfully you'd be ahead to bore it. It's not that expensive in the long run.

My thoughts are to build a good shortblock you can live with for a long time. Cylinder seal is the most important thing. You can use the stock crank (even if it's cast it will be fine) and 3/8" rods. They'll be fine. Hopefully the crank can just be polished up. I'd like to see some better rod bolts in the stock rods....so figure in a quick resizing after changing them. Now I will say I have done many without resizing them after changing bolts...but you need to measure things. Re-sizing them is the best plan. But don't let anyone rape you. Aftermarket rods are pretty cheap these days and it's easy to get close to the cost of new sometimes.

I'd say balance it too. Just makes things nice and smooth. No need for high $$ bearings on a cast crank..just use stock replacement ones.

I'd shoot for 10.0 compression at least. Truthfully a set of 11.0 closed chamber pistons do OK with the open chamber heads if you can't find a good deal on some to fit the opens closer and still end up with 10'ish compression.

Shoot for a tight quench area. So if you don't want to spend $$ to deck it...use steel shim head gaskets with the iron heads to end up with .035"-.040" quench just like the factory did.

2.19's and 1.88's are fine if you want them..but I've run deep in the 11's with 2.06/1.72's. If you need valves and guides do the bigger ones for sure.


3.70's need something that can easily rev to 6000+ rpm. The easiest way to do that is with a solid flat tappet. I've got a few favorites that are easy on parts and run killer as well as drive decent if you decide to go that way. Either way..you want in the .600" or more lift range.

If you go with roller rockers, order them as 1.8 on intakes and 1.7's on exhaust.

There are several intakes that work great with the L-88 hood.


Keep posting your progress here with somepics of what you have and we'll help you all we can!

JIM

Indiancreek

Keep in mind you'll more than likely need to set aside some cash for a stall speed converter if your cam choice is such as to mandate higher idle rate.

TheSkunkWorks

FWIW I have a full set of 3/8" rods which need a home, a set of replacement 4-bolt caps (IIRC), and possibly a couple of other items that might help you watch your budget if you want me to look around. Email if interested.




.

milo30

I appreciate everyone's input and provided links.

427Hotrod,

You're right, I wasn't thinking about going ahead and boring since I was buying pistons anyway. It is pretty cheap to go ahead and bore it. I've been talking some to a machine shop near me but will contact Zwede for a number to that one.

So, you think if the valves and guides are good that I am okay with just keeping the stock sizes? If they will work, I could definitely put that money somewhere else. What about pocket porting?

I'm not against the solid flat tappet or being able to rev the higher RPMs but I am not stuck on the 3.70's. My rear will have to be upgraded for the extra power anyway so I'm not stuck on any specific gearing yet. Just like I already had plans on an L-88 hood.

This is why I came in here before I started anything, so I don't paint myself into a corner early in the build.

Thanks for all the info.

milo30

I'm still sitting on my butt and waiting for a machinist. I got the referral from Zwede and talked to the guy but he is backed up. The last time I talked to him he told me to call back after the first of the year. I tried a local shop the other day I started getting some information from him that I didn't trust so I passed on taking the block in.

Anyone in the DFW area have any recommendations for a machine shop? If I can't get it in to my first guy in January, then I am going to move on to someone else. I need to get moving on this before more of my money gets spent on other things.

L88Plus

I'm with Jim, many 454's have been built on a budget with stock valves and worked fine. A bit of pocket porting, bowl cleanup, etc. will generally yield just about as much as larger valves. If you need guides, though, you might as well bite the bullet and get big valves while you're at it. If you're going to run stock rods, look for a set of "truck" rods. The scallop in the side of the rod is rounded on the big end rather than being more "Y" shaped. More beef in this area helps keep the big end more round. Cast crank is fine, just make sure your shop checks it out and orders the correct bearings.

Indiancreek

I think you may as well settle in on your January guy. If you find someone who can do all your machine work for you before the end of the year, he either isn't very busy or is really putting stuff out.
With the head work you're talking there is more than just the normal head recon. time. Every shop around here (including mine) take some time off during Christmas.
Most performance shops are stacked up now doing race motors during the off season and your job would just fall in line someplace.
There is normally a way to skip line at most places, and that involves an exigent circumstance of some kind.

DRIVESHAFT

The stock valve sizes wont keep you from hitting your goal, but I wouldnt run the stock valves.
I have seen more than one factory valve head embedded into the top of the piston after the valve broke.
I would recommend investing in a set of one piece stainless valves. You can pick up an inexpensive set for $150.

73, Dark Blue 454

Should you learn that the crank has to be turned etc, discard it and go with this stroker crank: Scat part number 9-454-4250-6135. Here's a good vendor and price ($279).

http://www.flatlanderracing.com/scatcranksbbc.html

With this crank, you can still use your stock rods, harmonic, and flywheel (harmonic and fly are externally balanced on 454's).

You gain around 40 cid (depending on final bore size) and remain 'in the budget'.

You may or may not need an aftermarket oil pan to clear the stroke. If so, get this one from Moroso:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-20403/

This will clear your 4.25" stroke. Installed as part of the pan is a directional windage screen, a scraper, and it holds six quarts excluding the filter. This is a very nice oill pan that fits the Corvette chassis great!

The 781's are ok but not great on bigger engines. If the budget will allow, I'm seeing used BB aluminum aftermarket heads on Ebay etc for $750-1000,..Brodix, Edelbrocks, GM PErformance, Dart, etc. Or try Craiglist and perhaps you wouldn't have to buy something sight unseen and save on shipping. Look for some large oval ports or smaller square ports. They would likely need a valve job but for a little more, you'd have a mill that will really rip the pavement and you'd lose some weight on the front end of the car. The difference between some worked-over 781's and good modern aftermarket alum heads could be worth from 50-100 HP,..that's no exageration. And, you can turn around and sell your 781's to offset some the of the cost.

I like your approach though. You don't need to spend $10,000 to make a healthy reliable BB.

Good luck!

milo30

The reason that I am looking for another shop is that it does not sound promising for even january and I want another option if it continues to get pushed back.

As far as the crank, if bad then I plan on stroking it. Heads....I looked into aftermarkets but reality is with radiator, pulleys, etc that I will need, the costs just dont justify the swap and I would just go with a 383 crate then.

Hopefully the shop gets caught up so I can see where I stand at this.point.

L88Plus

Check around the net, there are Summit codes for 10% - 15% off and free shipping thru the 16th, might want to think about that...