Stupid question:
03-09-2012, 11:37 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '12
Stupid question:
This may be a stupid question, but this is the first time for me at a cam change. Do I or should I get a NEW fuel pump push rod when changing out my cam? The new one's "say" they are lighter. But does it really matter? Thanks.
03-10-2012, 01:18 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
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Ya know, I've been wondering the same thing. They say that you shouldn't re-use old lifters with a new cam, but what about the fuel pump pushrod? I think the only real difference would be that the fuel pump lobe on the cam isn't egg-shaped like the lobes meant to lift valves, it's more of an off-center circle, and the forces involved are not as severe as lifting a valve with a valve spring, so I could understand if it were not an issue, but I have never heard anybody say anything either way about it.
Offhand, I would guess that a lighter fuel pump pushrod wouldn't really be worth a whole lot, as far as freeing up extra power. I would enjoy hearing from someone who knows what they're talking about, who could square me and daanbc away on this issue, or non-issue, whichever the case may be.
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
Offhand, I would guess that a lighter fuel pump pushrod wouldn't really be worth a whole lot, as far as freeing up extra power. I would enjoy hearing from someone who knows what they're talking about, who could square me and daanbc away on this issue, or non-issue, whichever the case may be.
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
03-10-2012, 02:50 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
I've always used the same fuel pump pushrod with never any problems. Nowhere near the load on the cam from that as there is with the valvetrain. Lube it all up good and get busy.
03-10-2012, 06:10 AM
#4
Hey Dave. I reused my old one. I did mark the cam end and pump end however for proper reinstallation. If there is no wear on either end that you can feel with your fingernail or while rubbing a penny across the wear surfaces then it should be ok. Lube with cam break-in lube or a little grease. mike...
03-10-2012, 08:47 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '12
Thanks guys.
Scottyp99, "They" say that a "lighter" pushrod does not have the "float" so it delivers better performance. My thinking is = when ever I install these push rods, there is never any play in them. So how much "float" could there be?
Scottyp99, "They" say that a "lighter" pushrod does not have the "float" so it delivers better performance. My thinking is = when ever I install these push rods, there is never any play in them. So how much "float" could there be?
03-10-2012, 10:54 AM
#6
Race Director
i'd be awful leary of re-using lifters on a different cam anymore with the oils we have these days.
03-10-2012, 12:46 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
There is NP in reusing your pump rod, the loading is so small you will not have any problems. The light rods are a good thing but not needed on a street engine. The floating statement means the pump rod can float off the cam eccentric as the only load it has is the spring in the fuel pump to keep it in contact with the cam. So lighter pump rod the higher RPM it takes to "float " the pump rod.
03-10-2012, 01:09 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
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The "they" that I am referring to is The International Brotherhood of Piano Tuners, Ballet Dancers, and Valvetrain Maintenance Technicians (or, the IBPTBDVMT, for short. Their knowledge about piano tuning and ballet dancing is a little spotty, if you ask me, but they are really on the ball when it comes to valvetrains!) 
What is the context of your quote from the Chevy Power service manual (or, the CPSM, for short)? Are they talking about re-using lifters in an engine overhaul using the original cam, or re-using them on a new cam? Not trying to argue with you, just trying to clarify.
Just FYI, the IBPTBDVMT says you should always use new lifters with a new cam, but they also say you can tune a piano, but you can't tune a fish, so maybe it should be taken with a grain of salt. And if there is any salt left over, can I have some for my popcorn?
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
What is the context of your quote from the Chevy Power service manual (or, the CPSM, for short
)? Are they talking about re-using lifters in an engine overhaul using the original cam, or re-using them on a new cam? Not trying to argue with you, just trying to clarify.Just FYI, the IBPTBDVMT says you should always use new lifters with a new cam, but they also say you can tune a piano, but you can't tune a fish, so maybe it should be taken with a grain of salt. And if there is any salt left over, can I have some for my popcorn?
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
03-10-2012, 03:38 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
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That's a very good question really.
I never gave it much thought before.
But an inspection is minimum for any used or even new part.
IMHO i would give the old p-rod a visual for scoring/abuse. Then I would install and try and wobble it in place. I recall mine in my Hecho in Mehico crate with <35k mi had zero play. Anything more the minutest play while i the bore i would look to replace with new and try again to compare. And it could be the bore hole in the block is worn as that's the softer metal.
Hope this can help,
cardo0
But an inspection is minimum for any used or even new part.IMHO i would give the old p-rod a visual for scoring/abuse. Then I would install and try and wobble it in place. I recall mine in my Hecho in Mehico crate with <35k mi had zero play. Anything more the minutest play while i the bore i would look to replace with new and try again to compare. And it could be the bore hole in the block is worn as that's the softer metal.
Hope this can help,
cardo0
03-10-2012, 04:07 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
I never gave it much thought before. But an inspection is minimum for any used or even new part.
IMHO i would give the old p-rod a visual for scoring/abuse. Then I would install and try and wobble it in place. I recall mine in my Hecho in Mehico crate with <35k mi had zero play. Anything more the minutest play while i the bore i would look to replace with new and try again to compare. And it could be the bore hole in the block is worn as that's the softer metal.
Hope this can help,
cardo0
But an inspection is minimum for any used or even new part.IMHO i would give the old p-rod a visual for scoring/abuse. Then I would install and try and wobble it in place. I recall mine in my Hecho in Mehico crate with <35k mi had zero play. Anything more the minutest play while i the bore i would look to replace with new and try again to compare. And it could be the bore hole in the block is worn as that's the softer metal.
Hope this can help,
cardo0
Just for people to know it is the hard parts that wear more than a soft part. The reasons for the crazy sounding thing is the soft part embeds dirt and such and acts as a file on the hard parts!
03-11-2012, 04:47 AM
#13
Race Director
To the OP. I would probably change it out for the few bucks it cost. There are no stupid questions, Just stupid answers. Like this one.
Quote: Good used lifters that still retain some crown or convex curvature across the bottom are very satisfactory.
I am sure this quote was taken out of context. If your not changing out the cam you can reuse the lifters if they and the lobes on the cam show no visible wear and they are used in the exact same bores they were removed from. This would be the only case. A new cam install requires new lifters. Period, end of story.
Quote: Good used lifters that still retain some crown or convex curvature across the bottom are very satisfactory.
I am sure this quote was taken out of context. If your not changing out the cam you can reuse the lifters if they and the lobes on the cam show no visible wear and they are used in the exact same bores they were removed from. This would be the only case. A new cam install requires new lifters. Period, end of story.
03-11-2012, 09:02 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '12
Thanks, I said to myself that I was going to buy a new one anyway. (The last time I placed mine back in after a fuel pump change, I noticed a mark on the side of it, I guess from tightening the bolt to hold it a little to much?) For $12-19 I would be foolish not to, since I'm spending the $$ anyway. But I thought I'd ask the question anyway because I never read about it.
03-11-2012, 01:08 PM
#15
Race Director
Hey, If you want to sand the bottom of a 35 year old used set of lifters with 600 grit sandpaper and try to reuse them breaking in a new cam have at it. That book was published in 1976. In 1976 GM built these engines, never broke in the cams and sold the cars to people that started them up, drove off the lot and ran them hard with very few failures. The cam lobe designs, ramp rates and lift on modern cams are drasticly different than they were 35 years ago as well as the oil formulations. With the frequency of wiped lobes breaking in flat tappet cams today even when everything is new, correctly set up, correctly broken in with high zddp oil why would you even consider this? A new set of lifters is about $50 if you buy them with the cam. This is NOT the place to try and save $50.
03-11-2012, 09:09 PM
#16
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Did you guys know that in Ohio some people think the speed limit should stil be 55 mph. Most of us think they are narrow minded, and can't see from other peoples point of view. I guess this discussion depends on your budget and your luck. My 2 cents... Mike
03-11-2012, 09:46 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '12
I'm getting the Comp.Cam XE268H (12-242-12)
Crane-Anti-pump-up Lifters.
Cloyes 9-1100T timing chain.
A 8 lb chrome/polished water pump.
The "famous" fuel push rod.
And thinking of getting a Lifter Valley baffle tray.
I already have a Weiand polished "street warrior"
Quadrajet tuned.
Distrib. done by "LARS"
Long tube headers into true dual exhast w/Flow master 44's.
Under drive pulleys.
Dual L-82 intake with a "EXTREME" cover.
Trans-Pak in the tranny.
All emission equipment removed.
With what I have done so far, the car is a totally different vehicle from when I first brought it home. The addition of the cam I'm thinking will perk it up just a little.
Thank you to ALL FORUM members who have helped me and gave advise over this past 18 Months. I appreciate it very much!!!!
03-12-2012, 12:00 PM
#19
Race Director
Well, did I take it out of context or not? Did I make it up out of thin blue sky or did I quote GM engineers verbatim? 
Obviously, if I bought an aftermarket cam and the manufacturer said I must use their lifters or their warranty is VOID, I would follow their advise. DUH
But in my 44 years of building Chevy V8's, I didn't always have new aftermarket speed equipment in my budget. I bought a hundred times more stuff over the Chevy parts counter. And I put those parts together myself using the tips and techniques learned from reading books like the Chevy Power Manual and those of Henry 'Smokey' Yunick and Bill 'Grumpy' Jenkins.
What is the overwhelming suggestion from reading these pages? Order a crate engine then write the BIG check. Sure, that's the quick and easy way. But not for me.
Did I ever put 600 grit abrasive paper to the face of a lifter? Absolutely. Did I ever reuse lifters that had the convex bottom needed to insure that the lifters rotate in their bores? Absolutely. And never had a valve train problem by doing so. I'm old. I'm old school. I mostly use old school parts.
The newest ultra high lift cams and sky high valve spring rates need specialized assembly techniques, no doubt about it. If I needed more horsepower than what GM's engineers designed in the late 60's and early 70's, I'd skip right over them and go the roller lifter route. I hear they can be reused without any drama from those know-it-alls at the IBPTBDVMT.
Obviously, if I bought an aftermarket cam and the manufacturer said I must use their lifters or their warranty is VOID, I would follow their advise. DUH
But in my 44 years of building Chevy V8's, I didn't always have new aftermarket speed equipment in my budget. I bought a hundred times more stuff over the Chevy parts counter. And I put those parts together myself using the tips and techniques learned from reading books like the Chevy Power Manual and those of Henry 'Smokey' Yunick and Bill 'Grumpy' Jenkins.
What is the overwhelming suggestion from reading these pages? Order a crate engine then write the BIG check. Sure, that's the quick and easy way. But not for me.
Did I ever put 600 grit abrasive paper to the face of a lifter? Absolutely. Did I ever reuse lifters that had the convex bottom needed to insure that the lifters rotate in their bores? Absolutely. And never had a valve train problem by doing so. I'm old. I'm old school. I mostly use old school parts.
The newest ultra high lift cams and sky high valve spring rates need specialized assembly techniques, no doubt about it. If I needed more horsepower than what GM's engineers designed in the late 60's and early 70's, I'd skip right over them and go the roller lifter route. I hear they can be reused without any drama from those know-it-alls at the IBPTBDVMT.
Crane: First sentance in bold red:
http://www.cranecams.com/uploads/instructions/214e.pdf
Lunati:
http://www.lunatipower.com/Tech/Cams/CamLifters.aspx
and:
http://www.holley.com/data/Products/...al/INST150.pdf
Comp:
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/In.../Files/145.pdf
03-12-2012, 04:55 PM
#20
Le Mans Master
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My post was directed at Mr. scottyp99. He suggested my quote was taken out of context.
I went through all the trouble of scanning, cropping, photo hosting and posting them to show that I did no such thing.
Your 4 links proved my point that aftermarket camshaft manufacturers ALL require, not only new lifters, but ofttimes THEIR brand of new lifters to keep the warranty intact. I never said otherwise.
I was under the impression that certain cam grinders would grind ANY custom cam profile, for a price. Am I wrong?
I went through all the trouble of scanning, cropping, photo hosting and posting them to show that I did no such thing.
Your 4 links proved my point that aftermarket camshaft manufacturers ALL require, not only new lifters, but ofttimes THEIR brand of new lifters to keep the warranty intact. I never said otherwise.
I was under the impression that certain cam grinders would grind ANY custom cam profile, for a price. Am I wrong?
"What is the context of your quote from the Chevy Power service manual (or, the CPSM, for short)? Are they talking about re-using lifters in an engine overhaul using the original cam, or re-using them on a new cam? Not trying to argue with you, just trying to clarify."
I just cut-n-pasted it, so you'll have to take my word for it that I haven't modified it in any way. However, anybody who is interested can go take a look at post #9 and see that it has not been edited.
I do appreciate the trouble you went through to answer my question, (thank you, by the way) but really, if you had simply said "The CPSM says it's ok for a new cam.", I would have taken your word for it. I really don't understand what you're getting all bent out of shape about.
Keep the shiny side up
Scott