Front Suspension Rebuild
#22
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07
They're tighter and don't deflect as much as rubber bushings. It's a more precise feel. Depending on the springs and shocks, and what the driver is looking for, some might call it "harsh" under certain conditions. I'm set up with Bilstein shocks and 550# springs in front, with a big-block sway bar. It doesn't feel "harsh," to me, but it is very precise and stuck to the road.
#23
Drifting
They're tighter and don't deflect as much as rubber bushings. It's a more precise feel. Depending on the springs and shocks, and what the driver is looking for, some might call it "harsh" under certain conditions. I'm set up with Bilstein shocks and 550# springs in front, with a big-block sway bar. It doesn't feel "harsh," to me, but it is very precise and stuck to the road.
#24
Le Mans Master
I think that there is some misunderstanding on the value of poly bushings versus rubber bushings. The major drawback with the C3's suspension amongst other issues is that there is way too much play in general. I replaced my upper and lower control arm rubber bushings about 4 years ago with poly and was shocked at how much more responsive the handling and ride after the change. And no I did not find the car rode harder, just much more solid and handling improved immensely-the car is not raced, just driven on the street. My front setup has been completely rebuilt over time and I have the following components:
1. Stock 1 1/8 inch OEM sway bar with poly mounting and end link bushings (since 1983 BTW)
2. Poly Upper and Lower control arm bushings (about 5 year ago-no squeaks)
3. 550 F-41 springs-1 inch lower than stock
4. Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks with poly upper mountings
5. Speed Direct Spreader Bar-Abosolue MUST for all C3's
6. Blue Printed/Rebuilt OEM Gary OEM steering box
7. 255/45/17 ZR Summer only Ultra High performance tires (they ride better than the OEM 255/60/15 junk)
In the Rear:
1. 3/4 inch OEM type bar (not an aftermarket linkage bar) with poly Mounting bushings
2. Competition adjustable strut rods with HEIM joints -no bushings-Absolute MUST to stop unwanted rear end movement
3. 360 monospring (1986) with poly mounting bushings
4. Bilstein Sport Shocks (30% stiffer than the front HD's)
5. 255/50/17 ZR like the fronts
The car rides, steers, and handles better than any C3 I have ever been in with NO HARSH ride-just the right combination of OEM type components with Ultra High performance Tires. My 2010 Z06 rides much stiffer! A neighbor with a Lexus LS430 rode in my 78 recently and commented that he could not believe at how well the car rode and handled. I commented most C3's don't ride nor handle anywhere near as well.
Hope that helps!!
1. Stock 1 1/8 inch OEM sway bar with poly mounting and end link bushings (since 1983 BTW)
2. Poly Upper and Lower control arm bushings (about 5 year ago-no squeaks)
3. 550 F-41 springs-1 inch lower than stock
4. Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks with poly upper mountings
5. Speed Direct Spreader Bar-Abosolue MUST for all C3's
6. Blue Printed/Rebuilt OEM Gary OEM steering box
7. 255/45/17 ZR Summer only Ultra High performance tires (they ride better than the OEM 255/60/15 junk)
In the Rear:
1. 3/4 inch OEM type bar (not an aftermarket linkage bar) with poly Mounting bushings
2. Competition adjustable strut rods with HEIM joints -no bushings-Absolute MUST to stop unwanted rear end movement
3. 360 monospring (1986) with poly mounting bushings
4. Bilstein Sport Shocks (30% stiffer than the front HD's)
5. 255/50/17 ZR like the fronts
The car rides, steers, and handles better than any C3 I have ever been in with NO HARSH ride-just the right combination of OEM type components with Ultra High performance Tires. My 2010 Z06 rides much stiffer! A neighbor with a Lexus LS430 rode in my 78 recently and commented that he could not believe at how well the car rode and handled. I commented most C3's don't ride nor handle anywhere near as well.
Hope that helps!!
Last edited by jb78L-82; 09-18-2012 at 06:35 AM.
#25
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07
I think that there is some misunderstanding on the value of poly bushings versus rubber bushings. The major drawback with the C3's suspension amongst other issues is that there is way too much play in general. I replaced my upper and lower control arm rubber bushings about 4 years ago with poly and was shocked at how much more responsive the handling and ride after the change. And no I did not find the car rode harder, just much more solid and handling improved immensely-the car is not raced, just driven on the street. My front setup has been completely rebuilt over time and I have the following components:
1. Stock 1 1/8 inch OEM sway bar with poly mounting and end link bushings (since 1983 BTW)
2. Poly Upper and Lower control arm bushings (about 5 year ago-no squeaks)
3. Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks with poly upper mountings
4. Speed Direct Spreader Bar-Abosolue MUST for all C3's
5. Blue Printed/Rebuilt OEM Gary OEM steering box
6. 255/45/17 ZR Summer only Ultra High performance tires (they ride better than the OEM 255/60/15 junk)
In the Rear:
1. 3/4 inch OEM type bar (not an aftermarket linkage bar) with poly Mounting bushings
2. Competition adjustable strut rods with HEIM joints -no bushings-Absolute MUST to stop unwanted rear end movement
3. 360 monospring (1986) with poly mounting bushings
4. Bilstein Sport Shocks (30% stiffer than the front HD's)
5. 255/50/17 ZR like the fronts
The car rides, steers, and handles better than any C3 I have ever been in with NO HARSH ride-just the right combination of OEM type components with Ultra High performance Tires. My 2010 Z06 rides much stiffer! A neighbor with a Lexus LS430 rode in my 78 recently and commented that he could not believe at how well the car rode and handled. I commented most C3's don't ride nor handle anywhere near as well.
Hope that helps!!
1. Stock 1 1/8 inch OEM sway bar with poly mounting and end link bushings (since 1983 BTW)
2. Poly Upper and Lower control arm bushings (about 5 year ago-no squeaks)
3. Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks with poly upper mountings
4. Speed Direct Spreader Bar-Abosolue MUST for all C3's
5. Blue Printed/Rebuilt OEM Gary OEM steering box
6. 255/45/17 ZR Summer only Ultra High performance tires (they ride better than the OEM 255/60/15 junk)
In the Rear:
1. 3/4 inch OEM type bar (not an aftermarket linkage bar) with poly Mounting bushings
2. Competition adjustable strut rods with HEIM joints -no bushings-Absolute MUST to stop unwanted rear end movement
3. 360 monospring (1986) with poly mounting bushings
4. Bilstein Sport Shocks (30% stiffer than the front HD's)
5. 255/50/17 ZR like the fronts
The car rides, steers, and handles better than any C3 I have ever been in with NO HARSH ride-just the right combination of OEM type components with Ultra High performance Tires. My 2010 Z06 rides much stiffer! A neighbor with a Lexus LS430 rode in my 78 recently and commented that he could not believe at how well the car rode and handled. I commented most C3's don't ride nor handle anywhere near as well.
Hope that helps!!
#26
Drifting
Street only. While it might see the quarter mile a couple times...it won't be road raced. I'm looking to replace the old worn bushings and tighten up the suspension to new+ standards. From experience, I do like the feel of the 550lb front springs I had on my 1980. I have replaced the rear spring with a new TRW spring and added bilsteins already. However, I believe you are correct...an complete update on the rear would be beneficial also. Recommendations?
http://www.vbandp.com/
http://www.vansteel.com/
Don't forget to take care of your steering. I had Gary on the DC Forums blueprint my steering box, made a huge difference.
#27
1980 ZZ4,
I just purchased the Performance Plus package from VBP which has the whole complete front and rear suspension, also went with rebuilt spindles.
My car is a 1976 and stock factory Gymkahana suspension , so the new set-up should not be to harsh for me. Both front and rear springs are adjustable, seems like a really nice set-up.
Taking the old suspension out was the worst of it , trailing arms were really hard , a day for each side. Being over 65 and a Disabled Veteran ,this was really not a bad or really hard to do job.
I was going to only replace the ball joints and a few bushings but got to thinking about putting new parts onto old parts always leads to future failure of the old part which intails having to the job all over again to get to the old part that I should have replaced when I put the new part on. Long story cut short, I just went with the whole package.
Let you know when I get it on the road.
I just purchased the Performance Plus package from VBP which has the whole complete front and rear suspension, also went with rebuilt spindles.
My car is a 1976 and stock factory Gymkahana suspension , so the new set-up should not be to harsh for me. Both front and rear springs are adjustable, seems like a really nice set-up.
Taking the old suspension out was the worst of it , trailing arms were really hard , a day for each side. Being over 65 and a Disabled Veteran ,this was really not a bad or really hard to do job.
I was going to only replace the ball joints and a few bushings but got to thinking about putting new parts onto old parts always leads to future failure of the old part which intails having to the job all over again to get to the old part that I should have replaced when I put the new part on. Long story cut short, I just went with the whole package.
Let you know when I get it on the road.
#28
Racer
Thread Starter
1980 ZZ4,
I just purchased the Performance Plus package from VBP which has the whole complete front and rear suspension, also went with rebuilt spindles.
My car is a 1976 and stock factory Gymkahana suspension , so the new set-up should not be to harsh for me. Both front and rear springs are adjustable, seems like a really nice set-up.
Taking the old suspension out was the worst of it , trailing arms were really hard , a day for each side. Being over 65 and a Disabled Veteran ,this was really not a bad or really hard to do job.
I was going to only replace the ball joints and a few bushings but got to thinking about putting new parts onto old parts always leads to future failure of the old part which intails having to the job all over again to get to the old part that I should have replaced when I put the new part on. Long story cut short, I just went with the whole package.
Let you know when I get it on the road.
I just purchased the Performance Plus package from VBP which has the whole complete front and rear suspension, also went with rebuilt spindles.
My car is a 1976 and stock factory Gymkahana suspension , so the new set-up should not be to harsh for me. Both front and rear springs are adjustable, seems like a really nice set-up.
Taking the old suspension out was the worst of it , trailing arms were really hard , a day for each side. Being over 65 and a Disabled Veteran ,this was really not a bad or really hard to do job.
I was going to only replace the ball joints and a few bushings but got to thinking about putting new parts onto old parts always leads to future failure of the old part which intails having to the job all over again to get to the old part that I should have replaced when I put the new part on. Long story cut short, I just went with the whole package.
Let you know when I get it on the road.
Thanks again.
Brad
#29
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Aug 2008
Location: Lehigh county Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Easy if you have, or have access to, the right tools. After all, you're working at a work bench not under the car. I use an acetylene torch to melt the old rubber from their bushings. Then use an air chisel to remove the metal bushing shells from the A-arms. A hydraulic shop press is needed to install the new parts. I fabbed up a fixture that fits between the A-arm 'ears' to keep them from collapsing during the press fit. A straight forward easy job.
#30
Le Mans Master
Blanket statements don't often cover everyone
I happen to have done a good bit of road racing over the years, and the sensitive instrument on which I sit happens to register that one needn't be on track to benefit from poly used in appropriate locations, despite certain shortcomings. Fact is, there are a number of us who find stock components to be inadequate, even for street use. That said, those not interested in improved handling for spirited driving should stick with rubber.
#31
Safety Car
Did my 82 last month I used poly prothane bushings on the control arms, moog ball joints and moog front stock replacement springs. Great ride but the thought of doubling the front spring rate (f41)I think would be a bit too much IMHO
Last edited by hugie82; 06-13-2012 at 01:28 PM.
#32
Racer
Thread Starter
After waiting for parts, then vacation away from home, I finally got my car to the front end guy this morning. It will be good to have this done so that I can get the ZZ4 and 200R4 put in. FINALLY!!
#33
We only install the USA made kits in our shop.
http://willcoxcorvette.com/advanced_...ension&x=0&y=0
The USA made kits contain Moog and Federal Mogal parts. (oh... use the sale code and you'll save 10 percent of the prices at that link too)
Poly kits are something we will not install in the shop. We sell them but do not install them. It's just my opinion but Poly kits belong on cars you intend to road race.. then they are a good thing. But on a daily driver... I'd stick to the stock USA made parts only.
IMHO,
Willcox
http://willcoxcorvette.com/advanced_...ension&x=0&y=0
The USA made kits contain Moog and Federal Mogal parts. (oh... use the sale code and you'll save 10 percent of the prices at that link too)
Poly kits are something we will not install in the shop. We sell them but do not install them. It's just my opinion but Poly kits belong on cars you intend to road race.. then they are a good thing. But on a daily driver... I'd stick to the stock USA made parts only.
IMHO,
Willcox
Poly increases the noise, vibration and harshness, no matter what the salesman tells you.
#34
Instructor
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: w. jordan utah
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bushings
as far as the control arm bushings go a good machine shop will remove the old and install the new. then you can detail and paint. if this is the only step stopping you from doing it yourself go that route.
#35
Racer
Thread Starter
It makes perfect sense that 'Poly' being more rigid would also be more unforgiving to any shock or vibration. The outcome has to have the result suggested below. However, like most anything, people have varying acceptance of these characteristics. I had the 'Poly' kit in my last car and was very happy with the outcome. IMO, the added control is impressive and worth the side effects.
Last edited by 1980ZZ4; 09-16-2012 at 11:00 AM.
#36
Racer
Thread Starter
I had the shop that did my last car, complete the work for me. The cost was just over $300, I'm thinking that avoiding the potential frustration was worth the money. Time to move on to installing the engine and new trans.
#37
I just did this and had a shop assist me as well. I had them remove the parts, which I then soaked in degreaser, sandblasted them, had the shop install the new bushings, and then I repainted them before the final installation. Was kind of a PITA since I had to wait on them to get the parts, then they had to wait on me to finish them up. But I couldn't imagine just putting the new bushings in the upper/lower control arms the way they were. Were yours in good enough shape to just put new bushings in and go? My car's a '70 so maybe it had a few more years of road grime than yours.
#38
Racer
Thread Starter
I just did this and had a shop assist me as well. I had them remove the parts, which I then soaked in degreaser, sandblasted them, had the shop install the new bushings, and then I repainted them before the final installation. Was kind of a PITA since I had to wait on them to get the parts, then they had to wait on me to finish them up. But I couldn't imagine just putting the new bushings in the upper/lower control arms the way they were. Were yours in good enough shape to just put new bushings in and go? My car's a '70 so maybe it had a few more years of road grime than yours.
I pressure washed the engine bay after removing the original engine and trans. This did a great job cleaning off the grease that remained. I actually painted before going to the shop and it looks super. I'm waiting for all the power steering components now. Figured this is a good time to refresh before installing the ZZ4 and 2004R. I'm finally starting to get excited.