Griff2002

I believe it is only Germany that does not allow Group III base oil to be labeled synthetic. Nevertheless I agree that Group IV PAO is superior. It has better high temperature stability, lower Noack volatility (which helps keep it from vaporizing into your exhaust), and very high viscosity index (VI). The high VI allows the use of less viscosity modifier (VM), a polymer that helps the lubricant meet both the high temperature and low temperature spec's. Unfortunately VM is prone to shear over time, which lowers the high temperature viscosity.

The challenge is to figure out which lubricants are PAO based. I've been told (but note I am not saying it is a fact) that Mobil 1 0W-40 is PAO based. This makes sense to me as very high VI base oil would be needed to meet the viscosity spec's for 0W-40. According to the Exxon spec sheet, the product has 1,100 ppm Zn. It has also passed the key European ACEA and major auto OEM testing credentials.

Tripower delight

what car is faster the vette or the GTX?

540 RAT

Not only do I have the Credentials/Qualifications to perform motor oil wear protection testing, but I provide numerous real world examples that exactly match my test data, proving it is the real deal. Validation of test data doesn't get any better than that. My test data is not about others agreeing or disagreeing, because none of our opinions or theories mean anything. The test data is about the FACTS that come out of the Physics and Chemistry involved. So, I let the Science prove what is really happening with motor oil.

Therefore, it is in your best interest to ignore the critics who go out of their way to try to discredit the data I provide. They don't even bother to read my test data Blog to learn anything, so they don't even understand what is going on.

Now, on with the latest info. Over the past month or so, the following 9 oils were added to the Wear Protection Ranking List for the first time:

• 5W30 Schaeffer Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus
• 5W20 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, synthetic
• 10W30 ProHonda HP4S, 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil, synthetic
• 5W30 Quaker State Advanced Durability, conventional
• 10W30 Mobil 1, Advanced Full Synthetic
• 5W40 Joe Gibbs DT40, synthetic
• 10W30 Mobil Super 5000, conventional
• 10W40 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, synthetic blend
• 10W40 Pennzoil High Mileage Vehicle, conventional

And the following 7 latest versions of oils already on the Wear Protection Ranking List, were added:

• 5W20 Castrol Edge Extended Performance, synthetic (gold bottle)
• 5W20 Valvoline SynPower
• 5W20 Mobil 1, Advanced Full Synthetic
• 5W30 Castrol Edge Extended Performance, synthetic (gold bottle)
• 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, synthetic
• 5W30 Mobil 1, Advanced Full Synthetic
• 5W30 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, synthetic blend

In addition to that, high temperature test data was added to the following oils at their location on the Wear Protection Ranking List:

• 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic
• 5W30 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic blend
• 10W40 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, API SN, synthetic blend
• 5W20 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic
• 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic
• 5W30 Mobil 1 Advanced Full Synthetic, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved

Also, "Section 3 – Motor Oil Thermal Breakdown Test Data", was updated to include high temp test data (the onset of thermal breakdown values), of the 6 oils just above.

For the truth about motor oil wear protection, see my "TECH FACTS, NOT MYTHS" Blog, which now has over 145,000 views worldwide. You can see the Blog and my entire 170+ motor oil “Wear Protection Ranking List”, which is EXACTLY matches real world severe over-heating experience, real world Track experience, real world flat tappet break-in experience, and real world High Performance Street experience, along with additional motor oil tech FACTS, by going to the Blog link below. Credentials, methodology, proof, facts, data, Industry endorsements, real world validation, etc, are all included in the Blog. See for yourself, the engine you save may be your own.

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

540 RAT

540 RAT

Multi-viscosity motor oils are in “one way” what most people think they are. And that is, rated as a thinner viscosity when cold, than when they are hot. But, that’s where it ends for many people, because the details are NOT as simple as they might seem. So, many people get confused and misunderstand what all this means.

When cautioned about running a stone-cold engine too hard, some will say they don’t have to worry about that because they are running a multi-viscosity oil. And that is not coming from kids in High School Auto Shop Class who are just starting out. That has come from old timers who have been car guys for decades, and they still do not understand how multi-viscosity motor oil works. So, here is some basic motor oil tech information to clear things up.

• A multi-viscosity motor oil is identified by its viscosity rating at two temperatures. It is rated at the cold temperature of 0*F, which is represented by the first number, the one in front of the “W”. It is also rated at the hot temperature of 212*F, which is represented by the second number, the one after the “W”. For example, 5W30 is rated as a 5wt when cold and rated as a 30wt when hot. These are the type of numbers everyone is most familiar with.

But, that DOES NOT mean that 5W30 is thinner when it is cold. And that is where people get confused and misunderstand what is really going on. The confusion comes in because of the temperatures at which the oil was rated. 0*F and 212*F are apples and oranges, or two completely different scales.

• EVERY motor oil thins out as it heats up and thickens as it cools down, no matter if it is a straight weight or a multi-viscosity. You can get a feel for this by checking the oil on your dipstick when it is cold, thick, and drips slowly. Then check it again when it is hot, thin, and drips almost like water. And keep in mind that thinner oil flows more freely through all the restrictions inside an engine, compared to thicker oil that flows more slowly through those restrictions.

Mechanical Engineers design engines with certain clearances, to be used with a certain motor oil viscosity, in order to provide the proper oil flow rate/lubrication/cooling needed for a long and trouble free life. Of course the engine has to start-up and run when cold, but it will spend 99% of its operational life at normal operating temperatures. So, if an engine was designed to use 5W30, that means it was intended to be properly lubricated 99% of the time, by a motor oil rated as a 30wt when hot.

But, also keep in mind that oil pressure, in and of itself, is NOT what we are after. Oil pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. And oil pressure is NOT lubrication. You can have lots of oil pressure, such as at cold start-up, while at the same time having very little oil flow, such as with heavy viscosity oil, which is NOT a good thing. We need oil pressure only to generate the oil flow we need. Oil FLOW is lubrication, so that is what we are after.

And any reduction in the intended oil flow rate/lubrication, would compromise the wear protection an engine was designed to have. Of course oil flow rate/lubrication is important throughout an engine, but it is extremely important to have sufficient oil flow to maintain the incompressible hydrodynamic liquid oil wedge that is formed between the crankshaft journals and the rod and main bearings. And any oil thicker than a hot 30wt for the engine example above, would reduce that intended oil flow rate/lubrication. If the flow rate/lubrication is reduced enough, unnecessary wear can occur. And if flow rate/lubrication is reduced even more, actual engine damage can result (more on that below).

So, let’s take a look at what is specifically going on with motor oil at cold start-up vs what is going on with it at hot operating temperature. For this comparison purpose, multi-grade motor oil viscosity properties are typically given at 40*C (104*F) and at 100*C (212*F). And its thickness is given in an accurate measurement called centistokes (cSt).

The cold 40*C (104*F which is only slightly above normal temperature for humans) temperature shown below will be used to represent cold start-up conditions, though at more common colder temperatures, the oil will be even thicker yet. And the hot 100*C (212*F) temperature shown below will be used to represent hot operating conditions, though at more common higher temperatures, the oil will be thinner yet. Keep in mind, as mentioned above, EVERY motor oil thins out as it heats up and thickens as it cools down, no matter what its identifying viscosity rating is.

Actual Motor Oil thickness

cSt @ cold 40*C (104*F) / cSt @ hot 100*C (212*F)

0W40 = 79.9 / 14.3, or 5.6 times thicker when cold

5W20 = 51.6 / 9.0, or 5.7 times thicker when cold

5W30 = 64.8 / 10.7, or 6.1 times thicker when cold

5W40 = 93.7 / 15.7, or 6.0 times thicker when cold

10W30 = 71.8 / 11.5, or 6.2 times thicker when cold

10W40 = 89.9 / 13.8, or 6.5 times thicker when cold

15W40 = 105.0 / 14.8, or 7.1 times thicker when cold

20W50 = 170.0 / 20.2, or 8.4 times thicker when cold

As you can see above, even at these modest cold and hot temperatures that motor oil thickness values are typically available for, the oil is WAY, WAY THICKER when cold, than it is when hot. And the difference is even GREATER at more normal colder start-up and hotter operational temperatures. So, that means that at cold start-up, oil flow rate/lubrication will be GREATLY REDUCED, even if you are using the recommended multi-viscosity motor oil. But even so, multi-viscosity oils are still a good thing, because they would be even thicker yet when cold, if they were straight wt oils.

NOTE: This will likely surprise a lot of people. Notice that cold 5W20 at 51.6 cSt, is 2.6 times THICKER, than hot 20W50 at 20.2 cSt. Now you know that a low viscosity cold rating does NOT mean the oil is thin when it’s cold.

CONCLUSION:

The best way to protect your engine, when dealing with thick, poor flowing, cold oil, is simple. If you run an engine too hard when it’s stone-cold, you can cause unnecessary wear or even damage, due to the reduced oil flow rate/lubrication. But, all you have to do to avoid that problem, and to protect your engine, is to run it easy (small throttle openings and low rpm) for the 10 or 15 minutes it takes for it to reach normal operating temperature. All you need is a little patience, and then you can run it hard without any concern about lubrication.

But, if you don’t have the patience to wait for an engine to reach normal operating temperature before hammering it, then here is an example of what can happen to it. I have a next door neighbor lady who used to drive a Chevy Tahoe SUV. And when I happened so see her leave in the morning, I noticed that she would back out of her driveway, put it in Drive, and floor it………on a stone-cold engine. I thought, if she keeps that up, she’s going to ruin her engine. And every time I saw her leave, that was her normal routine. Of course she is just a normal lady who is not the least bit technical, so she had no idea she was doing anything wrong. To her, flooring her Tahoe with a stone-cold engine, was no different than switching her blender on to “high”.

She kept up that routine for maybe a year or more. Then when I would happen to see her leave, I started hearing a rod knock as she took off, which didn’t surprise me at all. And she continued to drive it like that for maybe another year. But, the knock continued to get worse over time, which is a perfect example of the engine not having sufficient oil flow to fully maintain the extremely important incompressible hydrodynamic liquid oil wedge that is formed between the crankshaft journals and the rod and main bearings.

The rod knock finally got so bad, that she traded the Tahoe off for another vehicle. Funny thing, someone must have clued her in, because she has never once driven the new vehicle like that. And it has been fine now for two or three years. I guess she learned her lesson……..the hard way. So, it would be wise to learn from her mistake and avoid doing the same thing to your own engine.

For more details about motor oil wear protection, that is not just opinion or theory, see my "TECH FACTS, NOT MYTHS" Blog, which now has over 145,000 views worldwide. You can see the Blog and my entire 170+ motor oil “Wear Protection Ranking List”, which is "proven" by the Physics and Chemistry involved, and EXACTLY matches real world severe over-heating experience, real world Track experience, real world flat tappet break-in experience, and real world High Performance Street experience (test data validation doesn’t get any better than this), along with additional motor oil tech FACTS, by going to the Blog link below. Credentials, methodology, proof, facts, data, Industry endorsements, real world validation, etc, are all included in the Blog. See for yourself, the engine you save may be your own.

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

540 RAT

fishslayer143

Excellent write-up... very informative especially for those newbies that think 6000 rpm is great when you start a cold motor

540 RAT

I normally don’t mention anything about oil change intervals, figuring that everyone can decide that for themselves. But, I’ve had a number of people contact me to ask what oil change interval they should use. So, I put together the following write-up, to address that question.
There is quite a wide variation when it comes to recommended oil change intervals for normal daily driven street vehicles. Vehicle owners get recommendations from:

• Quickie Oil Change places that usually call for 3,000 mile change intervals.

• Owner’s Manuals that now can often say 7,500 miles or more.

• Modern vehicle computerized dashboard oil change indicators that can vary anywhere from about 5,000 to 10,000 miles, depending on the model, brand and driving habits.

• Then there are the premium synthetic oils from mainstream Oil Companies and from Companies that only sell premium synthetic oils, who try to get you to buy their extra expensive motor oil, by saying you can use extra long oil change intervals, such as anywhere from 15,000 to 25,000 miles.

Trying to make sense of all those conflicting recommendations is enough to give some people a headache. So, let’s see if we can make some sense out of all this.

• You can completely ignore the 3,000 mile oil change interval called for by the Quickie Oil Change places. There is no technical reason to change oil that often in normal daily driven street vehicles. Of course it doesn’t hurt the engine if you do, but it is simply a waste of money and resources, while increasing environmental waste, with virtually no benefit to your engine. This recommended change interval is only so those Oil Change places can make more money off the unsuspecting motoring public.

• Owner’s Manuals have been known to drastically revise their recommended oil change intervals to far longer, at a model year change, even when nothing has changed on the model involved. This happens because Auto Makers can use longer oil change intervals to claim a reduced cost of ownership, while at the same time reducing environmental waste.

But, the reality is, it does not truly mean that the same vehicle as the previous year model, with the same oil, can now magically go perhaps an extra 50% or more between oil changes. These longer intervals are driven by Corporate Business decisions, not by Engineering decisions. It has gotten so ridiculous with some vehicles, that you are better off to ignore the overly long oil change intervals that are now commonly printed in Owner’s Manuals.

• It is fairly common for the computerized dashboard oil change indicators in modern vehicles to not match the vehicle’s own Owner’s Manual. Of course the Owner’s Manual numbers are an overall approximation of driving conditions and driving habits, where the computerized dashboard indicator takes into account engine temp, throttle opening, rpm, etc, etc. So, some people might assume that the computer is more precise than the Manual. But, don’t believe it, because the computer is programmed for extra long oil change intervals for the same reasons as the extra long oil change intervals printed in the Manuals.

I have a late model daily driver vehicle myself, with a computer oil change indicator that shows that I should go “TWICE” as long between oil changes, compared to my previous similar model from the same maker, which was only a few years older, all while they both were driven exactly the same. And of course the computer doesn’t know if I’m using cheapo discount conventional motor oil or very expensive premium synthetic oil, labeled as extended change interval motor oil. So, once again, you are better off to ignore the overly long oil change intervals that are now commonly indicated by the computer.

• Then we have the premium synthetic oils from mainstream Oil Companies, as well as from Oil Companies that only sell premium synthetic oils. And retail prices on those premium oils tend to be so high that their sales are weak in the marketplace. So, those Companies devised a Marketing strategy which advertises that their oils are so good that buyers can use far longer change intervals, such as anywhere from 15,000 to 25,000 miles. Their idea is, since customers can buy their oil less often, that it will offset the super high cost of the oil, in an attempt to convince the general public that the high price is justifiable. All in hopes of increasing sales and profits. But of course, Marketing/Advertising being what it is, they leave out the dirty little secret that, no matter how good any oil is, or how much it costs, it will still get extremely dirty and contaminated, thus needing changing, WAY, WAY BEFORE that many miles. More on that below.
Now we’ve seen that all the various recommendations above have only the interests of others in mind, rather than your best interest or your engine’s best interest in mind. Therefore, it is best not follow those oil change interval recommendations, if you really care about doing what’s best for your wallet and for your engine. So then, what oil change interval should we use?

I’ll answer that by telling you the oil change intervals I’ve used in normal daily driven street vehicles for years, why I do it, and why I recommend others do the same. Then you can decide for yourself.

--------------

I use a 5,000 mile oil change interval in my own normal daily driven street vehicles. This interval is long enough that it lets you get your money’s worth from the cost of the oil change without causing any negative impact to an engine. Changing oil much sooner than that, obviously does not hurt engine, but you’d be throwing money away for no reason, since shorter intervals provide no benefit to an engine.
I've sent a number of quality used oils with 5,000 miles on them, to a motor oil Lab for component quantity testing, to see how much the additive package components had been depleted during that interval.

Here’s what I found, on average, for that group of oils:

• The overall anti-wear package component levels had dropped by about 24%

• The detergent level dropped by about 9%

• And the TBN (acid neutralizer) dropped by a significant 51%

The reason so much of the additive package was still available in the used oils I had tested, was because those oils were subjected to only normal daily driving. And additive package component quantities are typically high enough to begin with, so that they won't be totally depleted prematurely by severe/extreme usage, such as racing, heavy loading, towing, mountainous or off/road operation, extended idling, or extended hot or cold operation, that could take place, where the additive package would be used up at a faster pace.

I also “wear tested” those used oils myself, and found that there was no loss of wear protection, even though the zinc/phos (ZDDP) level in particular, had dropped by about 25%. And that is clear proof that ZDDP levels DO NOT determine wear protection capability.
Additive package component quantity depletion, as mileage accumulates on the oil, is normal. The various components are used up as they do their job. And after 5,000 miles of normal daily driving, there was still plenty of additive package remaining in the oils tested above. BUT, that absolutely does NOT mean that you should keep using motor oil until those components are completely exhausted. Here's why.

One of the primary reasons your oil gets dirty, is because of combustion by-products getting past the rings from blow-by, and entering the crankcase into your oil. And this has nothing to do with how high tech the engine may be, or how good or how expensive an oil might be. This happens to ALL motor oils in all engines. And oil filters CANNOT filter out this contamination from the oil, no matter how good some filters may be. Because oil filters only filter out particulate matter. Filthy contaminated dirty oil will flow right through any oil filter. So, continuing to run filthy dirty contaminated oil in your engine, would be like using the same filthy dirty contaminated bath water for months, and months, and months. You could physically do that, but you would never be clean. The same thing applies to your engine.

In addition to this, small amounts of fuel also get past the rings, particularly during cold start-up and during initial warm-up, when the engine is running extra rich with fuel. This fuel slowly dilutes your oil, again no matter how good the oil is, or how much it costs. So, this is another important reason to use reasonable oil change intervals, rather than extended change intervals.

And if filthy dirty contaminated diluted oil isn't a good enough reason to avoid using extended oil change intervals, consider the following. Every motor oil is different, so it would be very difficult to establish a general oil change guideline to use, to get closer to the limit of total component quantity depletion, that would be safe to use for every motor oil, without going too long on certain oils and run the risk of totally depleting those critical additives. And if an oil is subjected to severe/extreme usage, then it makes this issue even worse.

And to further complicate things, even motor oils that are marketed as extended change interval motor oils, don't all follow the same plan for the amount of extra additive package quantity put in an oil, which might allow you to even consider going longer. If you look at " Section 4 – Motor Oil component quantity Lab Test results", in my Blog, you will see that some name brand motor oils have extra additive package component quantities in their oils marketed as extended drain interval oils. But, other name brand oils marketed as extended drain interval oils, only have normal change interval additive package component quantities. And the normal change interval oils they sell, actually have below average quantities of additive package components.

So, the only way you could ever safely consider running motor oils longer than reasonable (if you don't care enough about your engine to consider the filthy dirty contaminated diluted oil aspect), whether the oils are marketed as extended change interval oils or not, is to take a small sample of the oil being used, and send it into a motor oil Lab for component quantity testing every few thousand miles, after you've reached a normal change interval mileage. That way you could make sure you don't ever run completely out of critical additive package components. But, of course that is simply way too much trouble for most people to ever bother with.

And if all that isn't bad enough, remember that motor oil deteriorates any time it reaches its onset of thermal breakdown point. And that thermal breakdown point varies widely from oil to oil, with many oils reaching that point as low as 250*F. Oil temps are not the same everywhere inside a running engine. Typical main bearing oil temps can be 55*-90*F higher than sump temps. So, oil temp gauges installed in an oil pan can give a false sense of what max oil temps actually are inside an engine. And with extended oil change intervals, you need to consider that most oils have also been deteriorating from exposure to temps that exceed its thermal breakdown point. Therefore, every technical aspect is negative, regarding extended oil change intervals. Meaning that there is absolutely NO technical benefit what so ever, to using extended oil change intervals.

BOTTOM LINE: By the time a normal daily driven street vehicle reaches 5,000 miles on its oil, that oil is dark dirty contaminated, becoming more and more diluted as time goes on, and has been suffering some thermal breakdown deterioration, so it is in definite need of changing. People who go much longer than a 5,000 mile oil change interval, just don't understand the technical reasons why that is NOT a good idea, even if they use very expensive premium synthetic oils marketed as extended change interval oil. But, now they know, so they can make a more informed decision about the oil change interval that is best for their engine.

CONCLUSION / RECOMMENDATION:

• I use 5,000 mile oil change intervals for conventional or synthetic oils, in my own normal daily driven street vehicles, for all the reasons discussed above. And it works out that it is also convenient to see when an oil change is due, by simply looking for 5,000 mile increments on the odometer.

• I would NOT use shorter change intervals for normal daily driven street vehicles. But, I would and do, use shorter change intervals for vehicles that are subjected to severe/extreme usage.

• I would NOT use longer change intervals, not even with premium synthetic oils labeled for extended change intervals, for all the reasons discussed above.

• I recommend using the oil change interval I follow, for those who want to provide their engines with the best protection.

For the truth about motor oil wear protection, that is not just opinion or theory, see my "TECH FACTS, NOT MYTHS" Blog, which now has over 150,000 views worldwide. You can see the Blog and my entire 170+ motor oil “Wear Protection Ranking List”, which is "proven" by the Physics and Chemistry involved, and EXACTLY matches real world severe over-heating experience, real world Track experience, real world flat tappet break-in experience, and real world High Performance Street experience (test data validation doesn’t get any better than this), along with additional motor oil tech FACTS, by going to the Blog link below. Credentials, methodology, proof, facts, data, Industry endorsements, real world validation, etc, are all included in the Blog. See for yourself, the engine you save may be your own.

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

540 RAT

63mako

Again

cnwwyo

Did you happen to test this oil in you're wear testing? Thx

lionelhutz

More snake oil about oil life this time....

The oil change interval isn't just arbitrarily increased by the bean counters. The manufacturers spend millions of dollars testing this stuff. The better electronic engine controls, tighter engine tolerances and better sealing keeps the oil cleaner for a longer period of time.



These kinds of comments are completely laughable. The oil life monitor is based on the engine using the oil specified in the manual. It has been extensively tested by the manufacturer to ensure the accuracy of the oil life monitor. If you use oil which meets the specifications then it will last for the length of the oil change it is allowing. If you chose to use "cheapo discount conventional motor oil" which doesn't meet the specification then that's your own stupidity.

NewbVetteGuy

Has anyone cross-referenced the high performing oils in this list from the high zinc content list? -At least people here could agree that if an oil is on both lists, it's a good choice, right?


-Taking it a step further; has anyone done a cost analysis of the oils that rank high on either / both lists to come up with a value leader list?


Adam

1974CorvetteJimCr

Adam, excellent questions! However bringing logical ideas can not be tolerated. Only Bashing of ones ideas is allowed. You'll learn.

Just kidding, you do bring an excellent point. I hope someone does what you recommend.

Sgt.Gator

Mobil 1 has changed the specs on their 0W-40 Euro Spec (my previous favorite oil). It is now called Mobil 1 0W-40 FS. However when you look at the bottles they are almost identical, the new version has a small FS on it.

It still has a good amount of Zinc (1100) and Phosphorous (1000). The entire Mobil 1 product spec chart has been updated and is here: https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...guide-2016.pdf

Last week it was on sale at Walmart for $22/Five Quarts, but now it's back to $25. Plus there is a $12 Rebate from Mobil 1 thru the end of October. So for $13 you can get 5 quarts! https://mobiloil.com/en/promotion/mo...nd-mobil-super

lurch59

I've only read part of this blog, and have some questions. What are the educational qualifications of 540 RAT? I prefer to get my information from oil tribologists/engineers. I'm not challenging 540 RAT, just wondering.....

I will add that I have several vehicles that I run extended drain intervals, three with almost 200k miles. Some have gone 33k miles between changes; I've had no troubles but I do test/analyze my engine oil every year and run 1 micron bypass filtration, and a good quality synthetic. As you can tell, it's saved me a lot of money and not been detrimental so far. I don't know how you can ignore the type of real data that I have provided, but go ahead and continue to change oil needlessly if you wish.

540 RAT

Before we get into the actual test information, a word of caution. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No problem there. But, there are some outspoken critics on this Forum who have made it their life's work, to try to discredit my motor oil test data. They even get emotional about it, in part because they think they should be the only ones who are motor oil experts, and that no one else can encroach on their territory.

They have convinced themselves and others that they are motor oil experts simply because they have read a bunch of Internet articles about motor oil. But, they don't even know that most motor oil articles on the Internet have their foundation in the same basic source material, which sometimes are only from elemental lab tests. So, they don't even understand that, that information can end up being only a theory, that is either misleading or outright incorrect, and therefore is not validated when put to the test in actual completely formulated motor oils that are on the shelf in Auto Parts Stores. But, I test real motor oil that we actually buy and use in our engines.

One of the most common and ridiculous claims made by the critics, is the old MYTH that you need high levels of zinc to provide high levels of wear protection. But, Engineering tests have proven over and over again that, that idea is completely FALSE. And in fact, excessive zinc can even CAUSE engine damage (details are in my Blog).

Using zinc as the primary anti-wear component in motor oils, is outdated technology. For decades zinc has been plentiful and cheap, which why it has been used so much. But, modern extreme pressure anti-wear components, exceed the capabilities of old time zinc, and are typically formulated in with zinc to make newer motor oils even better. And that is why many modern low zinc oils totally outperform a lot of traditional high zinc oils. In fact the absolute worst motor oils on the market regarding wear protection, are super high zinc traditional Break-In oils (details are in my Blog).

More zinc in a motor oil simply takes longer to be used up, just like more gas in your tank, takes longer to be used up. More zinc cannot possibly provide more wear protection, because the fact is, zinc does NOT work that way. It's much the same way that more gas in your tank, cannot possibly make more HP, because the fact is, gas does NOT work that way.

These unqualified critics probably mean well, but they cannot back-up anything they say with hard facts. And they will even quote reputable big name cam makers recommendations about using only certain oils, to support their claims. But, the people staffed by those Companies have also been brainwashed by the same bad Internet information about motor oil. And their products continue to often fail when using the very oils they recommend.

And when presented with one of those wiped lobe examples on this Forum, those critics will make an excuse by saying something like, "Sometimes things just happen". That is what passes for a Technical evaluation to them, rather than also looking at their beloved oil that was used, to consider everything involved in the failure. In Engineering, nothing "just happens", because everything "happens for a reason". In those wiped lobe failures that I've seen posted, where it was posted what specific oils had been used, I found that those oils had performed very poorly in my Engineering Wear Protection tests, which indicated ahead of time, that wipe lobe failures were extremely likely. And that of course is exactly what happened.

So at most, those critics can only provide their own opinion, but nothing more, even though they would like you to think what they say is Gospel. But, Engineering is NOT based on Internet chatter, nor on theory, nor on opinion, nor on emotion. Engineering is based on the hard FACTS that come from the Chemistry and Physics involved.

On the other hand, you will see my qualifications at the bottom of this thread. And I back-up everything I post about motor oil with hard Engineering test data FACTS. For my Engineering tests, opinion, theory and emotion never come into play. And I don't sell anything either, so I have no reason to steer people wrong. I simply share motor oil FACTS, as a courtesy to benefit other Gear Heads, because there is so much bad information out there about motor oil. Also, in my Engineering Test Data Blog (the link is below), are a number of real world examples that completely validate and back-up my test data, with headings such as:

• OIL TEST DATA AND SEVERE OVER-HEATING EXPERIENCE ARE IDENTICAL

• OIL TEST DATA AND RACE TRACK EXPERIENCE ARE IDENTICAL

• OIL TEST DATA AND WIPED LOBE AT BREAK-IN EXPERIENCE ARE IDENTICAL

• OIL TEST DATA AND HIGH PERFORMANCE STREET EXPERIENCE ARE IDENTICAL

So, I suggest that the readers of this thread should not let the critics here, tell them what to believe. Instead, the readers should look at my information here and in my Blog, and then decide for themselves what is correct motor oil information.

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Finally, on with the subject of this thread. Traditionally, heavy duty Diesel oils have been formulated specifically for Diesel engines, and have been intended for large trucks and heavy equipment. They have typically been 15W40 oils with a few 5W40's available as well. But, all of those are 40 weight oils at normal operating temperature. When I have tested those heavy duty Diesel oils for their wear protection capability, their psi values were almost always rather low, indicating poor wear protection performance. So, their poor wear protection performance, and the fact that they typically reach the onset of thermal breakdown BEFORE most gasoline engine oils do, made it very clear that in general, heavy duty Diesel oils are a poor choice when it comes to providing the desired wear protection for High Performance and Racing gasoline engines. That also shows that anyone who uses heavy duty Diesel oil in High Performance and Racing gasoline engines, simply has no idea what they are doing.

However, those traditional Diesel oils, when used in the engines they are intended for, do not need to provide the excellent wear protection that we like to see in gasoline engine oils. Because, what most people aren't aware of, is that Diesel engines are designed much more rugged and durable than gas engines. Diesel engines are designed with larger components than gasoline engines. And those larger components spread the load they see, out over larger areas, resulting in lower loading per square inch (psi). Therefore, even though these large truck and heavy equipment Diesel engines are hard working, they do not require oils that provide the high psi protection that we desire in our high performance gas engines. That's why, what we often consider poor performing Diesel oils, work just fine in heavy equipment.

Diesel and gas engines are on a different scale when it comes to evaluation of their oils regarding wear protection capabilities. You cannot compare them straight across, because they are apples and oranges. Traditional heavy duty Diesel oils should be compared to other traditional heavy duty Diesel oils, unless they are used in gasoline engines. Then they need to meet gasoline engine standards, to provide the wear protection we desire in gasoline engines.

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But, now it is becoming more and more common for motor oils to be formulated for BOTH Diesel and gas engines, which results in those oils providing much better wear protection, due to their far better psi values. These oils are generally intended for Diesel cars and light trucks, and they typically come in thinner, lighter viscosities which are desirable in those cars and light trucks.

The following five lightweight 5W30 diesel oils, four of which were formulated for both Diesel and gas engines, with the last one formulated only for Diesel engines, were tested late 2016 for their Wear Protection Capability at the normal test temperature of 230*F, which is representative of normal operating conditions. They were also tested for their onset of Thermal Breakdown points, rounded to the nearest 5* increment. They are ranked here just among themselves, based on their film strength/load carrying capability/shear resistance psi values.

The Wear Protection reference categories are:

• Over 105,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection

• 90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection

• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection

• 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection

• Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear protection

The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the Wear Protection.

1. 5W30 Pentosin Pento Super Performance III, for gas and diesel engines, API S"M", ACEA C3, synthetic, made in Germany = 122,711 psi
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Its onset of Thermal Breakdown = 275*F
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However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. But, this oil only had a very small 3.5% drop in capability. And even at that elevated temperature, it produced an extremely impressive 118,477 psi, which still kept this much hotter and thinner oil in the INCREDIBLE Wear Protection Category.
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2. 5W30 Mobil 1 ESP Formula (Emission System Protection), for diesel and gas engines, ACEA C2, C3, API SN, synthetic = 113,836 psi
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Its onset of Thermal Breakdown = 300*F
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However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. This oil had a significant 22.4% drop in capability. At that elevated temperature, it produced 88,381psi.
.
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3. 5W30 Pennzoil Euro "AV" European Formula, for diesel and gas engines, ACEA C3, API SN, synthetic = 112,664 psi
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Its onset of Thermal Breakdown = 265*F
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However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. This oil had a large 29.2% drop in capability. At that elevated temperature, it produced 79,792 psi.
.
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4. 5W30 Castrol Edge Professional "LL03", Diesel oil, ACEA C3, gold bottle, synthetic = 107,067 psi.
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Its onset of Thermal Breakdown = 275*F
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However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. This oil had a significant 18.2% drop in capability. At that elevated temperature, it produced 87,593 psi.
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5. 5W30 Pennzoil Platinum Euro "L", made from natural gas, for diesel and gas engines, ACEA C3, GM dexos "2" approved, API SN, synthetic = 97,051 psi
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Its onset of Thermal Breakdown = 275*F
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However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. This oil only had an extremely small 0.55% drop in capability. At that elevated temperature, it produced 96,519 psi.
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As you can see, the wear protection capability of this group of Diesel oils was quite good. The top four oils were all in the INCREDIBLE wear protection category, and even the last place oil was still in the OUTSTANDING wear protection category. This group of lightweight 5W30 Diesel oils are among the very best Diesel oils I have ever tested.

Three other Diesel oils I tested previously, that also performed very well are:
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5W30 Mag 1, FMX, European Formula, API S"M", ACEA C3-08, synthetic, for gas and diesel cars and light trucks = 111,622 psi
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Its onset of Thermal Breakdown = 280*F.
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However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. And this oil did experience a 17.1% drop in capability. At that elevated temperature, it produced 92,508 psi.
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5W40 Mag 1, FMX, European Formula, API SN, ACEA A3/B4, synthetic, for gas and diesel cars and light trucks = 109,147 psi
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5W30 Amsoil Series 3000 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil synthetic, API CI-4 PLUS, CF, SL, ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7 = 102,642 psi
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For people who feel compelled to run Diesel oil in gasoline engines, the 8 oils shown above are the best oils to consider for that. And if these particular oils were used for that purpose, the users WOULD actually know what they are doing.
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540 RAT

Mechanical Engineer, Mechanical Design Engineering is what I do for a living

U.S. Patent Holder (Mechanical device designed for Military Jet Aircraft)

Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)

Member ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers)

Lifelong Gear Head, Mechanic, Hotrodder, Drag Racer, and Engine Builder

For the truth about motor oil wear protection, that is not just opinion or theory, see my "TECH FACTS, NOT MYTHS" Blog, which now has over 250,000 views worldwide. You can see the Blog and my entire 195 motor oil “Wear Protection Ranking List”, which is "proven" by the Physics and Chemistry involved, and EXACTLY matches real world severe over-heating experience, real world Track experience, real world flat tappet break-in experience, and real world High Performance Street experience (test data validation doesn’t get any better than this), along with additional motor oil tech FACTS, by going to the Blog link below. Methodology, proof, facts, data, Industry endorsements, real world validation, etc, are all included in the Blog. See for yourself, the engine you save may be your own.

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

gkull

Darn I thought that you were going to help me decide what to run in my extremely hot rodded gale banks Cummins turbo diesel. Ram 3500 dualy

Diesel worry about ash....... not just ware protection


Presently Delo 400 le 15w 40

lionelhutz

Anyone who has read actual decent technical papers would know that it typically contains a theory backed by theoretical data such as simulations or a lab testing method followed by real world testing to prove the theory. The testing or simulation data as well as the field testing is full explained. That way, the reader can understand what was done. The typical purpose is to give the reader a way to evaluate something.

Just in the last week I just read a few papers on torsional vibration that covered the mathematical theory along with field testing which proved the real world matched the theory. The goal of the papers was to show the math required to determine an issue before the equipment is installed and running. Funny thing, but this is not related to oil at all but still a typical mechanical engineering field. Still, I'm not a mechanical engineer yet I could probably struggle through the theoretical analysis of a system after reading these papers.

In your case, the theory would be why a certain lab test will determine how well an oil would protect an engine from wear. The field testing would take examples and test the ranking from the lab correlates to engine wear in controlled wear testing on running engines.

You blog contains NONE of this.

Hell, you claim your qualifications are listed but you can't even manage to list one qualification related to the subject you present. Listing work history at an oil company in the lab that created oil formulations or at a car company in the lab that comes up with the oil specification required for use in a new engine are qualification. Being a mechanical engineer or member of an engineering society is not, because they don't mean you know anything at all about oil testing or issues related to real-world engine wear.

Your blog reminds me of a fuel savings device website I recently saw. It had a statement along the lines of "there are no known laboratory testing methods available to prove this device works". The true statement would have been that running various cars on dyno's would prove we're liars and cut into our scamming profits.

63mako

Peer review and proper testing methodology is key to successful and correct interpretation of results. Testing new oil to the point the film strength is broken in no way determines overall wear protection. Once the film strength is broken the ZDDP is activated. There are various ZDDP formulations that are activated under different conditions, temperatures and loading. This is the additive that determines overall wear under extreme conditions. The OP's testing in no way accounts for any benefits from ZDDP because his test ends when film strength is broken before ZDDP is activated. No peer review, improper methodology for conclusion drawn. This is a film strength test on new oil and only conclusions directly related to that should be drawn from this testing.

itsonlyairandfuel

Looking forward to in depth test on oil to disprove 540. which one of you are going to do the testing to disprove him? New information is always good.

lionelhutz

This is the typical backwards argument. After someone makes some unsubstantiated claim they say "you have to prove me wrong". Well, it doesn't work that way. It's up to the person making the claim to prove their data is actually meaningful. And he has provided ZERO actual real engineering proof that his data means anything useful when applied to oil in a running engine driven on the street. There is absolutely no engineering explanation of the test method and no explanation showing how the test method applies or correlates to wear in a running engine driven on the street in his blog.

AirBusPilot

Well, 540's top oils are really top oils. You can't go wrong by picking one.