74 LS4-454

Ok, not to sound like an a**, but I do not have the $$$ to do all of the mods with the trans gears, rear etc. I have already had my 3.08's rebuilt to handle quite a bit of HP if necessary, so a rear change will not happen.
Although I asked a basic question, I know that there is not a basic answer. And again, the knowledge from these replies is nothing short of impressive to say the least. And I appreciate the time and thought that went into all of your responses from everyone.
That being said.....
If I were to use the #215 heads, which camshaft would you use in both hydraulic and roller (and I know they are expensive) and why. Remember my main goal is to have a set-up that will spin 5500-6000 r's with no problem.
Lets's also say I change the TC to the next stall speed level, (mild, nothing radicall).
The 74 will be used around town and be a cruiser, not a "dd".
Thanks again...................Tom

63mako

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lu...make/chevrolet
Get your quench as close to .040 as possible to maximize compression and detonation resistance. 2400 Stall convertor to help compensate for your gear (stock TH400 is 2000). A roller will get you better torque throughout the entire operating range, better vacuum, and no break in worries. Make sure your springs are compatible, very important with a BBC. This cams operating range is 1800-6200 and will match your build specs. All builds are a series of compromises. wanting a higher operating range (6000 RPM) with iron heads, 3.08 gears and automatic requires THE right cam and a convertor upgrade to pull it off.

c6silver

That cam needs more rear gear and compression than he has, and stronger valve springs too. I agree it eliminates break in worries and would be an awesome cam with more rear gear, but he's staying 3.08...so, I'd say get the same ISKY Mega cam on the 108 CL and make it easy. 222/231 isn't exactly crap duration. The stock LS4 cam is the same as a dump truck engine, I think the @ .050 numbers are like 190/191 and the lift is like .398 or something, so a 30 degree change on the intake and a 40 degree change on the exhaust WILL move the power band up, but the LC needs to stay tight for the 3.08 gears, I do agree with the 2400 stall converter, but I still say the switch pitch would be better for a cruiser/daily driver. Even the stock 12" SP converter has 2600-2800 on high stall, then you can switch it to 1800 low stall (while you're driving). Best of both worlds. I paid 200 bucks for a whole Caddy SP TH400 trans a year ago off CL, with the converter. Buick and Olds used them too. They're out there...

74 LS4-454

Spoke to Lunati Cams this AM, they advised against the cam recommended by 63mako said not for my application.
here is the cam they said would work for me...
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=4516

so this can be an option........
although the range is from 1500-5000 it would be just fine....

74 LS4-454

The ISKY 270/280 MEGA CAM kit minus the springs is now for sale, as I have made my decision on which way to go. Never installed. Will list in the For Sale section.....
Going with the roller mentioned in the above post, that way I can keep my TH400 with the stock converter and if it doesn't work out I can look for the other items (SP) if needed unless I find one on CL as c6silver has mentioned.
Hopefully I can sell the cam kit to offset the cost of the roller. But now I won't have to worry about break-in and removing and reinstalling the springs, etc. So it should work out, I now I am giving up some r's from where I would like it to be, but I shouldn't loose anything in the bottom end and mid-range should be just what I'm looking for.....

Again, a very big thanks for all of the posts generated from this thread. It has helped me to understand just a little bit more than before and that is a good thing.
Thank you all again.....................:cheer s: Tom

tt 383

Personally I wouldnt get that, maybe their 272/280 voodoo line. Its rated 15 to 5800. Its got more duration .050, less advertised and more lift. Cant see how that wouldn't outperform the old lobes of the street/strip everywhere and it cost the same.

doorgunner

I'm glad I stayed out of this one! (I did learn a lot, though)


Keep us posted.

c6silver

I want to make you aware of a couple of things here, because it doesn't seem like you have much of a handle on this stuff, and I'm NOT trying to insult you IN ANY WAY, so here goes... 1- you CANNOT use the springs from the hydraulic flat tappet cam with a hydraulic roller cam, there isn't enough spring pressure to keep the heavier roller lifter in contact with the more aggressive lobe on the cam...you MUST upgrade the springs. 2- you'll need to buy shorter pushrods, because the Hydraulic roller lifter is taller than the flat tappet and a flat tappet pushrod will be WAY too long. 3- MAKE SURE that Lunati presses a cast iron gear onto their steel billet cam cores or you'll have to run a bronze distributor gear, and change it every few months (with resulting bronze shavings going into the engine oil). Comp and Crane do this on all their cores, so you can run a normal distributor gear and not have headaches. Running a roller is great, but there's a lot to know about it, and the Voodoo cam that was suggested would probably be a better choice.

Also, the cutting down the center divider in the intake (between the secondary bores of the carb) will help with high RPM breathing, which is why I suggested it. Cutting out the front to back dividers and generally cleaning up the plenum and doing some porting will also help with breathing. The 800+ CFM Q JET carb goes along with all of your goals also, just find a junkyard near you...you may have to bend up a new fuel line because non-Chevy Q jets have a front fuel inlet instead of a side fuel inlet like a Chevy does, but this is a worthwhile modification to make. You cannot over carb an engine with a Qjet, the engine will only use as much air as it needs. Have it rebuilt by Lars here on the forum, or Cliff Ruggles, JET Performance, or Sean Murphy Induction (SMI).

You'll need the stall converter...trust me.

I think a better cam is Crane's 214/222 @ .050 276/284 ADV .553/.576 lift hyd roller on a 110 LC. You can increase the valve lift to .585/.609 with 1.8 roller rockers (oh, don't run a roller cam without roller rockers too, kind of defeats the purpose). Or Comp's XR270HR or XR276HR.

If you don't have a big budget, stay away from any kind of roller cams, as the costs for the cam, lifters, springs, pushrods, and roller rockers is a good chunk of change.

A good flat tappet cam would be Crane's 216/228 @ .050 272/284 ADV on a 112 with .515/.510 lift or their 222/234 @ .050 278/290 ADV on a 114 with .529/.525 lift. Add .030 to any of those lift numbers for 1.8 rockers.

63mako

I guess I was assuming this was your main goal. Now your choosing a cam with more advertised duration that will drop your cylinder pressures and an operating range fall on its face over 5000 RPM with less lift. With stock heads you need duration @ .050 and lift to fill the cylinders. A 454 with a 2400 stall will have plenty of bottom end with a 278 cam with an operating range of 1800-6200 and still achieve your "main goal". I believe Gkull was pointing you toward a similar cam spec also.

74 LS4-454

will have to check with them again, before they start to make my cam.


I should have stayed out of this one also....
All kidding aside, it's always good to try and learn something new whenever the opportunity presents itself. Will keep everyone posted


Your not insulting me in anyway. I am the first to admit that I don't have a handle on everything being discussed.
1- the spring pressure on the 215 heads is 135lbs (springs from the ISKY kit) Lunati said I would be ok with them, I will call them again and double check.
2- already have the pushrods covered with:
LUN-80160-16
Pushrods, Steel, Heat-Treated, 3/8 in. Diameter, 7.725/8.684 in. Length, Chevy, Big Block, Set of 16
(Mfr. #: 80160-16)
3- will also inquire about that as well.

Will also inquire about the cam selection once again, as they have to make it, (not in stock), so there is time for a change.

Already have sent my stock Q-Jet out to Lars for a rebuild. Don't know if I will make any said mods to the intake at this time, but will make notes for the future.

Lunati suggested trying the stock converter and then upgrade if necessary to about 2400 stall.
And they mentioned that 1.8 rockers would not be needed for my application.
I have these ordered:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1411-16 CCA-1411-16
Rocker Arms, Stud Mount, Roller Tip, Steel, 1.72 Ratio, Fits 7/16 in. Stud, Chevy, Big Block, Set of 16
(Mfr. #: 1411-16)
LUN-93114
Timing Chain and Gear Set, Double Roller, Steel Sprockets, Chevy, Big Block, Set
(Mfr. #: 93114)

I am nowhere experienced as you or other members in combining the right parts for the desired purpose. But I'll get there someday.... and that is from learning here and I'll have to read more about cam selections.....


I also appreciate your imput and was just relaying what they mentioned. I didn't realize that trying to achieve a higher RPM limit was as involved as it appears to be, and decided to make a change. Still time to re-evaluate, but will still do a roller, as their prices are less expensive then other roller kits out there.........and I won't have to worry about break-in, which is worth the extra $$$ to me.......

74 LS4-454

Out of the 4 choices below, based on the 215 heads, which one would you use for my application and upgrading to a 2400 stall converter.
And what brand converter would you recommend?

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2550

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=4516

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=4538

Howard Cam....suggested by 63mako
120245-10 CL120245-10 278 284 225 231 .567 .578 110 106 Hyd. Hyd. 1,2
1800-5400 Noticeable idle, Street Performance. Should have 2000+ stall, 9.5:1+ CR.

I still have time to change my order.....
thanks............Tom

63mako

If the 5800 RPM peak is ok the last one is actually a better option with your gear than the other one I recommended. I was going with your statement that you wanted an easy 5500-6000 RPM. That said get your quench as close to .040 as possible because your getting close to the max DCR to run pump gas. Like this one a little better. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet.

tt 383

Honestly, would put more faith in Mako63 than a tech line recommendation. You could probably call that tech line every day of the week and get a different answer. Minor variations between the cams will hardly be noticeable compared to choking it with a bad intake. Big blocks like big cams even with a modest head, nothing really wrong with what was first suggested.. and no cam will make up for having a **** stall and **** gears.

63mako

A lot of the phone tech guys are not experienced or too savvy. They plug info into a computer and get a readout. Crap in, crap out. The thing is you gave the 5500 to 6000 RPM easy as a desire and they came back with a cam that is done @ 5000. Did they listen to you? The ramps on the cam they gave you are as gentle as a factory flat tappet profile which is why they told you the springs would probably be fine. Why get a roller if your not getting the advantages they offer? The Howards cam above with a 2400 stall convertor is about perfect for all your needs. The more CI you have the more duration @ .50 you need to maintain the same vacuum and manners. A fairly aggressive cam in a 327 could seem docile in a 383. A cam that seems perfectly sized in a 350 will cost a lot of power potential in a 454. Stock heads need more duration @ .050 than high flow heads. If the convertor flashes at 2-400 above the lower operating range of the cam it will launch great. It is street not strip right? Take it for what it is worth.

63mako

If you want to see what Crower does they have RPM ratings listed for their cams
by CI. As you see the operating range for a given cam drops 300 RPM when you go 454 vs 396. http://www.crower.com/camshafts/chev...ate-model.html

Les

I'd put a hold on any parts purchases and take time to study the options. Do it right and you'll be much happier with the end result.

74 LS4-454

That is exactly what I have done....put a hold on the cam order. I will stay with a roller and the other parts ordered will be needed anyway. I just have to make a selection.

Besides the Howard cam that 63mako has suggested what is the #1 choice from the above Lunati listing?
If I chose the Howard cam I can save $100.

c6silver

You will NOT be ok with Isky flat tappet springs on a roller ! NO WAY, I DON'T CARE WHAT THE TECH LINE GUY SAYS ! They will probably coil bind because a roller has WAY more lift than a flat tappet, and they just WILL NOT control the valve. Did you ask about the cast iron distributor gear ???

74 LS4-454

I hear you, I canceled the order from Lunati. I am not using the Isky springs as per your posts and will order the correct springs for the heads.
Some of the Comp cams you mentioned would not be available until July.
So either the other roller from Lunati or the Howard roller. They are both available to be delivered this week.
Again, all info is appreciated.............thanks....Tom

c6silver

Crane ?

Did you ask Lunati or Howards about the cast iron gear ? You DON'T want to run a bronze gear, trust me...

Do you NEED 1.8 rockers ? No, of course not. Any cam will work fine with 1.7 (they're designed to, after all), but .030 more lift can "crutch" a smaller cam somewhat and the quicker opening/closing of the valve and slight duration change will impact power (for the better). You have a real balancing act going on here, we don't know what your quench clearance or head cc is, so we can't figure true compression, you say you must keep 3.08 gears, and you have an auto trans...if it were me, I'd toss a Richmond/Doug Nash 5 speed at it with the 3.08s and cam it like it had 4.11s in it (because it will, effectively)...or do the Killgore deep gear set and switch pitch to crutch the weak gears. The other option is a 2004R and a switch to mid 3 series gearing (3.36 or 3.55). YMMV