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Tom I have the 16 in spal (cant remember the model had an L?) along with your radiator...think this one is 2000 cfm or 2200??
Is it any longer, my fan JUST clears my wp pulley
Does this fan draw any more amps?
Also is there a way to make the fan turn off earlier I run a 160 stat have the 185 on/165 off switch (without running a controller)
I have an 80/120 amp alt I cant get a bigger one in with my pulley setup
Plugs are as is will yours plug right in? Running relay, etc. Like the soft start option
I run no power accessories, just MSD older halogen lights and the fan will the alt keep up Ok? Driven occasionally
Not sure I can afford your dual fan setup or have to rewire maybe this is the way to go-
Price?
Sorry for all the questions just want to perfect the cooling system
Up untill now, all fans came with a CFM rating and that's how everyone evaluated the product. That CFM rating was based on zero static pressure or in other words, no restriction. The number was a baseline where all fans could be compared but no fan was ever used this way. When you mount the radiator in front of the fan you create a restriction. This restriction creates a vacuum or negative pressure that is typically measured in inches of mercury. The true measure of a fan is how it performs with a given restriction in front of it.
Below you find a link to a pdf page on our website. This page does not list a CFM rating but rather a curve. The curve is comparing a 16" brush type fan with a 17" brushless fan. Both fans would have been rated at about 2500 CFM in the old way of thinking but let's assume that your radiator, bugs, dirt, and a few wrapper creates a restriction of 0.8 H20 vacuum. The older brush fan would drop from 2500cfm to about 600cfm Nobody ever knew this, but that's what happens to all fans. Conversely the brushless fan only dropped to 1500 cfm, which is more than double the old technology.
Another reason the CFM ratings on the new brushless fan is not listed is because they are variable speed. They will only run at the speed they need to run to maintain the temperature of the sensor you selected.
Some have asked if they are quieter and the answer is, "they can be".
That is because the fans may be running at 1/2 speed instead of blasting away at full speed.
Keep in mind, this product is new and we need to develop packages and pricing for each application. This is not a thread "forsale" but rather a technical update. There are many additional benefits from the brushless technology. Shorter motors for more engine clearence, soft start with no inrush spikes, and variable speed.
I'm very interested in this, especially when the dual fan setup is available. My next fix/upgrade is going to be the radiator and fan. I've got to get a handle on the temps.
Put me on the list when they are available
I dont care how much noise they make (cars too loud anyway) just like a kick **** fan setup. Sounds like they are a little "smarter" than the current style
Ok, now I am getting a little excited. Looking at the standard Spal dual 11" package (which is still one of the best fans out there) the static rating is 2400 cfm and that drops to about 1300 with a 0.8 H20.
If we were able to package two of the new 12" Nuova fans into a custom shroud, which I feel we can, the cfm rating at the same 0.8 H20 would be 2800 cfm. That is 2X the air flow under load. Pretty damm impressive.
Last edited by Tom@Dewitt; 06-25-2014 at 10:21 PM.
How exactly does the new motor reduce the amount of CFM drop at a give static pressure? I'm assuming the blade design and housing is still the same, just the motor is different. So how does the motor retain a better flow? Is it because the motor RPM is controlled whereas the brushed motors can drop without being controlled?
In your post you said no PWM controller, however in the wiring schematic they seem to have a PWM sensor. Not sure I see the practical difference.
I believe there is a PWM controller, just not external. All brushless motors require a form of controller to energize the winding for the required speed and direction.
Also the sensor could be a PWM sensor instead an analog sensor. This is different then what used for the motor.
How exactly does the new motor reduce the amount of CFM drop at a give static pressure? I'm assuming the blade design and housing is still the same, just the motor is different. So how does the motor retain a better flow? Is it because the motor RPM is controlled whereas the brushed motors can drop without being controlled?
I am not the design engineer so I'm only assuming you are on the right track. It probably has to do with RPM drop and the paddle blade design. Brush type fans have a mechanical drag and that could also lead to the RPM drop under loading. On the controller question, I should have said "no separate controller" as this is built into the system
I think the only way to gain full speed is to have zero resistance. Why do you ask?
To do a fair comparison you need 2 things.... Max current draw under load, and CFM under that load... Only then can a real comparison be made...... I am sure spal would not come out with a new design unless it had some positive benefit.... And the built in pwm type system in a nice plus, as I went down the road with spal on there old pwm... I worked with sepals engendering group and fixed there old problem with it, but it was at the end of there production with it.
Like hp vs weight.... This would boil down to CFM vs max current draw
Probly going to have to be some type of a sealed unit, brushless in runner... Dirt/water could be detrimental overall... Efficiency ratings are waaay better with brushless... My Helis are running 50+ volts with 160 amp speed controllers... Lol. But that's on my bigger Helis... There are many options out there for speed controllers and motors... At all varying voltages and sizes... Quality matters
Brushless motor technology is incredible, especially in the Rc hobby world ... I'm sure a great system with many failsafes can be applied to electric car fans running at 12 volts...
Ok, now I am getting a little excited. Looking at the standard Spal dual 11" package (which is still one of the best fans out there) the static rating is 2400 cfm and that drops to about 1300 with a 0.8 H20.
If we were able to package two of the new 12" Nuova fans into a custom shroud, which I feel we can, the cfm rating at the same 0.8 H20 would be 2800 cfm. That is 2X the air flow under load. Pretty damm impressive.
I will be interested in this as well.. I currently run the Dewitts "cut down" radiator in my C5Z with the dual spals and they are not NEAR enough capacity when idling and slow speeds to support cooling with AC on in 90* ambient temps... So something that would move double the air and occupy the same real estate, I'd be all over it...
Keep us posted.. Hopefully these will bolt right up to the current spal shroud..
Interesting product. I too would be interesting to see the input power or input current vs flow.
Fan input power is basically the pressure x flow divided by efficiency.
With Tom's second example, the pressure is the same and the flow is 2.15 times as much. The efficiency of the new blade design and brushless motor combined would have to 2.15 times better to balance out and still have the same input power and current. I have no doubts that the efficiency of the new design will be better, but I find it hard to believe it would be that much better.
Given that these new fans are a little bigger diameter(about +1" compared to the brush sizes), it would make sense that the blades are also larger and the motors have more power so they can drive the larger blades.
06-24-2014, 12:57 AM
Spals New Brushless Fans
Nobody ever knew this, but that's what happens to all fans. Conversely the brushless fan only dropped to 1500 cfm, which is more than double the old technology. 
