I just don't get it. AFR 180 VS 195
12-26-2014, 09:36 PM
#41
Drifting
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Yeah, they do use a 210 cc head. It's called a FAST BURN and has a small cross section area for very fast velocity. Most of that 210 cc is in the bowl of the port not the runner. DON'T BE DECEIVED! The 180 head is the best choice for what the OP wants to do. I also read about the larger heads producing more torque and horsepower across the board. Fine and dandy. But how quick does all that torque and hp come on when you push the giddyup pedal. Is there a lag, a sogginess? Very likely. The smallest cross section area port to match your rpm goals properly matched with cam, stall, and gears is the answer.
Everybody and their uncle touts the AFR heads so why the hell won't people listen to the people who design and build the AFR heads as to what size is best. By the way, OP, you can buy 180 Profilers that will flow equal to the AFR heads but cost $500 less. That's the way I'm going. Good luck.
Everybody and their uncle touts the AFR heads so why the hell won't people listen to the people who design and build the AFR heads as to what size is best. By the way, OP, you can buy 180 Profilers that will flow equal to the AFR heads but cost $500 less. That's the way I'm going. Good luck.
12-27-2014, 08:30 AM
#42
Le Mans Master
i am by no means a head expert but the builder of my 355 bottom end is and we tallked quite a bit about the difference of AFR's versus other heads. He told me everyone looks just at flow numbers for heads to make decisions and that one aspect is NOT the whole story as to how the heads will perform on a given engine. There are various other differences between heads during the combustion cycle besides max fllow at different valve lifts. Looking at max flow for a head is like comparing a flat tappet cam versus a roller cam of the same lift and saying they will both perform equaling on the same engine-not true...There are differences getting to that max lift on the 2 cams-same for heads of similar flow. As has been stated many times before, you generally get what you pay for with parts for our cars and there is no free ride-most of the time....If two heads have similar specs-not the same-but close flow numbers to the AFR's but one head is $500 dollars less than the AFR's, you can probably bet that the cheaper heads do not offer the same performance. How much that $500 cost difference is worth in performace differential is up to the buyer but just don't assume you beat AFR for $500...depends what you are most interested in for that particular engine.....
Another analogy would be for shocks-$30 KYB versus a $75 Bilstein-they both will do the job but NOT the same way.
Another analogy would be for shocks-$30 KYB versus a $75 Bilstein-they both will do the job but NOT the same way.
Last edited by jb78L-82; 12-27-2014 at 08:39 AM.
12-27-2014, 08:46 AM
#43
Drifting
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i am by no means a head expert but the builder of my 355 bottom end is and we tallked quite a bit about the difference of AFR's versus other heads. He told me everyone looks just at flow numbers for heads to make decisions and that one aspect is NOT the whole story as to how the heads will perform on a given engine. There are various other differences between heads during the combustion cycle besides max fllow at different valve lifts. Looking at max flow for a head is like comparing a flat tappet cam versus a roller cam of the same lift and saying they will both perform equaling on the same engine-not true...There are differences getting to that max lift on the 2 cams-same for heads of similar flow. As has been stated many times before, you generally get what you pay for with parts for our cars and there is no free ride-most of the time....If two heads have similar specs-not the same-but close flow numbers to the AFR's but one head is $500 dollars less than the AFR's, you can probably bet that the cheaper heads do not offer the same performance. How much that $500 cost difference is worth in performace differential is up to the buyer but just don't assume you beat AFR for $500...depends what you are most interested in for that particular engine.....
Another analogy would be for shocks-$30 KYB versus a $75 Bilstein-they both will do the job but NOT the same way.
Another analogy would be for shocks-$30 KYB versus a $75 Bilstein-they both will do the job but NOT the same way.
12-27-2014, 11:34 AM
#44
Safety Car
i am by no means a head expert but the builder of my 355 bottom end is and we tallked quite a bit about the difference of AFR's versus other heads. He told me everyone looks just at flow numbers for heads to make decisions and that one aspect is NOT the whole story as to how the heads will perform on a given engine. There are various other differences between heads during the combustion cycle besides max fllow at different valve lifts. Looking at max flow for a head is like comparing a flat tappet cam versus a roller cam of the same lift and saying they will both perform equaling on the same engine-not true...There are differences getting to that max lift on the 2 cams-same for heads of similar flow. As has been stated many times before, you generally get what you pay for with parts for our cars and there is no free ride-most of the time....If two heads have similar specs-not the same-but close flow numbers to the AFR's but one head is $500 dollars less than the AFR's, you can probably bet that the cheaper heads do not offer the same performance. How much that $500 cost difference is worth in performace differential is up to the buyer but just don't assume you beat AFR for $500...depends what you are most interested in for that particular engine.....
Another analogy would be for shocks-$30 KYB versus a $75 Bilstein-they both will do the job but NOT the same way.
Another analogy would be for shocks-$30 KYB versus a $75 Bilstein-they both will do the job but NOT the same way.
DO MA NEU!
12-27-2014, 04:44 PM
#45
Safety Car
Yeah, they do use a 210 cc head. It's called a FAST BURN and has a small cross section area for very fast velocity. Most of that 210 cc is in the bowl of the port not the runner. DON'T BE DECEIVED! The 180 head is the best choice for what the OP wants to do. I also read about the larger heads producing more torque and horsepower across the board. Fine and dandy. But how quick does all that torque and hp come on when you push the giddyup pedal. Is there a lag, a sogginess? Very likely. The smallest cross section area port to match your rpm goals properly matched with cam, stall, and gears is the answer.
Everybody and their uncle touts the AFR heads so why the hell won't people listen to the people who design and build the AFR heads as to what size is best. By the way, OP, you can buy 180 Profilers that will flow equal to the AFR heads but cost $500 less. That's the way I'm going. Good luck.
Everybody and their uncle touts the AFR heads so why the hell won't people listen to the people who design and build the AFR heads as to what size is best. By the way, OP, you can buy 180 Profilers that will flow equal to the AFR heads but cost $500 less. That's the way I'm going. Good luck.
Ya it starts out at 180 or something and ends at 210 in the bowl
, god people just say things that may sound good but are baseless in facts..210 runner my friend .. Raised port ,, 64cc combustion chamber 2.00 intake with a sodium filled 1.55 exhaust valve .. Port speed is maintained by valve size and combustion chambers design..
The op can go spend like we all decide on our own to spend, but based on his ideas of power and torque i would run as fast as I can to a GM set of vortecs .. And NOT wast all that extra cash on the smallest AFR I could buy ..
12-27-2014, 07:04 PM
#46
i am by no means a head expert but the builder of my 355 bottom end is and we tallked quite a bit about the difference of AFR's versus other heads. He told me everyone looks just at flow numbers for heads to make decisions and that one aspect is NOT the whole story as to how the heads will perform on a given engine. There are various other differences between heads during the combustion cycle besides max fllow at different valve lifts. Looking at max flow for a head is like comparing a flat tappet cam versus a roller cam of the same lift and saying they will both perform equaling on the same engine-not true...There are differences getting to that max lift on the 2 cams-same for heads of similar flow. As has been stated many times before, you generally get what you pay for with parts for our cars and there is no free ride-most of the time....If two heads have similar specs-not the same-but close flow numbers to the AFR's but one head is $500 dollars less than the AFR's, you can probably bet that the cheaper heads do not offer the same performance. How much that $500 cost difference is worth in performace differential is up to the buyer but just don't assume you beat AFR for $500...depends what you are most interested in for that particular engine.....
Another analogy would be for shocks-$30 KYB versus a $75 Bilstein-they both will do the job but NOT the same way.
Another analogy would be for shocks-$30 KYB versus a $75 Bilstein-they both will do the job but NOT the same way.
Check out what the head porters and engine builders say about Profiler heads. Check out the Profiler heads and what they flow with a csa the same size as the vaunted forged from the hand of God AFR head. BTW, those flow numbers are from an as-cast head vs the cnc ported AFR. An educated rodder is a fast rodder. The guy that buys the heads that are advertised more is the one that comes in second place.
12-27-2014, 07:22 PM
#47
Ya it starts out at 180 or something and ends at 210 in the bowl , god people just say things that may sound good but are baseless in facts..
210 runner my friend .. Raised port ,, 64cc combustion chamber 2.00 intake with a sodium filled 1.55 exhaust valve .. Port speed is maintained by valve size and combustion chambers design..
The op can go spend like we all decide on our own to spend, but based on his ideas of power and torque i would run as fast as I can to a GM set of vortecs .. And NOT wast all that extra cash on the smallest AFR I could buy ..
, god people just say things that may sound good but are baseless in facts..210 runner my friend .. Raised port ,, 64cc combustion chamber 2.00 intake with a sodium filled 1.55 exhaust valve .. Port speed is maintained by valve size and combustion chambers design..
The op can go spend like we all decide on our own to spend, but based on his ideas of power and torque i would run as fast as I can to a GM set of vortecs .. And NOT wast all that extra cash on the smallest AFR I could buy ..
Do you even know what the csa of the Fast Burn's are? I guarantee you that is close to the 195 cc heads out there, that's how they get the flow velocity. But I have gotten way deeper in a cylinder head pis#%@*& match than I ever care to. OP, call Chad Speier or Eric Weingartner and get the scoop on what makes a good head. Educate yourself from the pros and you can't go wrong. Good luck.
12-27-2014, 09:21 PM
#48
Drifting
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Naw, why would he want to buy a head that will stomp all over a vortec when he can buy the vortecs and the matching manifold, and the self aligning rockers and the valve covers and the machine work to make them handle a cam with more than .470 lift and and and and. I guess if you want to spend the same amount of cash as a better head just to push 400 horses that's the way to go.
Do you even know what the csa of the Fast Burn's are? I guarantee you that is close to the 195 cc heads out there, that's how they get the flow velocity. But I have gotten way deeper in a cylinder head pis#%@*& match than I ever care to. OP, call Chad Speier or Eric Weingartner and get the scoop on what makes a good head. Educate yourself from the pros and you can't go wrong. Good luck.
Do you even know what the csa of the Fast Burn's are? I guarantee you that is close to the 195 cc heads out there, that's how they get the flow velocity. But I have gotten way deeper in a cylinder head pis#%@*& match than I ever care to. OP, call Chad Speier or Eric Weingartner and get the scoop on what makes a good head. Educate yourself from the pros and you can't go wrong. Good luck.
12-27-2014, 10:01 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
Chad Speier is a head porter out of Kansas.His heads have produced Nhra world records,Eric Weingartner is a head porter/engine builder who has competed in the engine master challenge several times.The sbc pro-filer head was designed by Darin Morgan,considered by many to be the best head porter in the world.Chad has website with all the information you could ever want with flow data and dyno sheets to back it up.I have personally talked to Chad and he will tell it like it is.One advantage of going with Chad is he will upgrade your heads if you want more power,I do not believe Afr will do this.IMO both heads will easily meet your goals and are quality american made products.Many here have had great results with Afr products and I believe that is why they promote them.Good luck with your choice,been there and done that!
If you are considering side pipes you'll need straight plug heads.
If you are considering side pipes you'll need straight plug heads.
12-28-2014, 08:38 AM
#50
Le Mans Master
Pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever read...."If a head comes close to the AFR in flow but is $500 less, it won't offer the same performance."
Check out what the head porters and engine builders say about Profiler heads. Check out the Profiler heads and what they flow with a csa the same size as the vaunted forged from the hand of God AFR head. BTW, those flow numbers are from an as-cast head vs the cnc ported AFR. An educated rodder is a fast rodder. The guy that buys the heads that are advertised more is the one that comes in second place.
Check out what the head porters and engine builders say about Profiler heads. Check out the Profiler heads and what they flow with a csa the same size as the vaunted forged from the hand of God AFR head. BTW, those flow numbers are from an as-cast head vs the cnc ported AFR. An educated rodder is a fast rodder. The guy that buys the heads that are advertised more is the one that comes in second place.
12-28-2014, 01:33 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
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Just a few notes.
Your carb was fubar and should return from lars optimized injecting new power into your unoptimized engine combo. Treat lars well for his efforts and support.
Do u have your cowl induction operating? Get it going as its only going to help by getting fresh cooler air to the engine.
Your 9.5 c.r. doesnt support a larger cam unless u use tighter head chambers. Before u bought it I thought that 274 dur cam on a 110 was to large for your gearing and c.r. dropping your d.c.r..
U want value then buy and install some "ported" L98 with tight 58cc chambers - Lingenfelter and TPIS sell some good "ported" L98 heads with larger valves. These heads allow use of original intake manifolding too. U can have them flat milled (not much though) for more c.r. increase but u would need to mill the intake also for a match.
If u really want a torque monster u need a shorter cam on a shorter LSA. Try a Isky 270* Mega cam (even the 264* Mega would shred tires and still be be fast in the 1/4 - ask BK Broiler) on a 108 LSA or even special order on a 107 or 106 LSA. Yes this is old school but u are driving an old school GEN 0 sbc yes?
If u want good exh extraction with a short cam u want 1 5/8" long tube headers with long collectors - i like Doug Thorely headers myself but Hedman has something also.
Or u could just find a craigslist C3 rear pumpkin and give it some 4:11 or 4:56 gear (3:90 not what your looking for) before u slip it in - that will make some tires spin.
Enough from me. I tried to stay out of this but after reading your carb post i could only think u are getting way ahead of yourself and probably have plenty of tuning to correct - get the car to a local dyno and optimize your timing now - with a good carb. Had to get this out as although AFR makes some bad azz heads u would want bigger cam and much more compression than your block would support as is.
Your carb was fubar and should return from lars optimized injecting new power into your unoptimized engine combo. Treat lars well for his efforts and support.
Do u have your cowl induction operating? Get it going as its only going to help by getting fresh cooler air to the engine.
Your 9.5 c.r. doesnt support a larger cam unless u use tighter head chambers. Before u bought it I thought that 274 dur cam on a 110 was to large for your gearing and c.r. dropping your d.c.r..
U want value then buy and install some "ported" L98 with tight 58cc chambers - Lingenfelter and TPIS sell some good "ported" L98 heads with larger valves. These heads allow use of original intake manifolding too. U can have them flat milled (not much though) for more c.r. increase but u would need to mill the intake also for a match.
If u really want a torque monster u need a shorter cam on a shorter LSA. Try a Isky 270* Mega cam (even the 264* Mega would shred tires and still be be fast in the 1/4 - ask BK Broiler) on a 108 LSA or even special order on a 107 or 106 LSA. Yes this is old school but u are driving an old school GEN 0 sbc yes?
If u want good exh extraction with a short cam u want 1 5/8" long tube headers with long collectors - i like Doug Thorely headers myself but Hedman has something also.
Or u could just find a craigslist C3 rear pumpkin and give it some 4:11 or 4:56 gear (3:90 not what your looking for) before u slip it in - that will make some tires spin.
Enough from me. I tried to stay out of this but after reading your carb post i could only think u are getting way ahead of yourself and probably have plenty of tuning to correct - get the car to a local dyno and optimize your timing now - with a good carb. Had to get this out as although AFR makes some bad azz heads u would want bigger cam and much more compression than your block would support as is.
Last edited by cardo0; 12-28-2014 at 01:36 PM. Reason: highlight
12-28-2014, 02:00 PM
#52
Drifting
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Just a few notes.
Your carb was fubar and should return from lars optimized injecting new power into your unoptimized engine combo. Treat lars well for his efforts and support.
Do u have your cowl induction operating? Get it going as its only going to help by getting fresh cooler air to the engine.
Your 9.5 c.r. doesnt support a larger cam unless u use tighter head chambers. Before u bought it I thought that 274 dur cam on a 110 was to large for your gearing and c.r. dropping your d.c.r..
U want value then buy and install some "ported" L98 with tight 58cc chambers - Lingenfelter and TPIS sell some good "ported" L98 heads with larger valves. These heads allow use of original intake manifolding too. U can have them flat milled (not much though) for more c.r. increase but u would need to mill the intake also for a match.
If u really want a torque monster u need a shorter cam on a shorter LSA. Try a Isky 270* Mega cam (even the 264* Mega would shred tires and still be be fast in the 1/4 - ask BK Broiler) on a 108 LSA or even special order on a 107 or 106 LSA. Yes this is old school but u are driving an old school GEN 0 sbc yes?
If u want good exh extraction with a short cam u want 1 5/8" long tube headers with long collectors - i like Doug Thorely headers myself but Hedman has something also.
Or u could just find a craigslist C3 rear pumpkin and give it some 4:11 or 4:56 gear (3:90 not what your looking for) before u slip it in - that will make some tires spin.
Enough from me. I tried to stay out of this but after reading your carb post i could only think u are getting way ahead of yourself and probably have plenty of tuning to correct - get the car to a local dyno and optimize your timing now - with a good carb. Had to get this out as although AFR makes some bad azz heads u would want bigger cam and much more compression than your block would support as is.
Your carb was fubar and should return from lars optimized injecting new power into your unoptimized engine combo. Treat lars well for his efforts and support.
Do u have your cowl induction operating? Get it going as its only going to help by getting fresh cooler air to the engine.
Your 9.5 c.r. doesnt support a larger cam unless u use tighter head chambers. Before u bought it I thought that 274 dur cam on a 110 was to large for your gearing and c.r. dropping your d.c.r..
U want value then buy and install some "ported" L98 with tight 58cc chambers - Lingenfelter and TPIS sell some good "ported" L98 heads with larger valves. These heads allow use of original intake manifolding too. U can have them flat milled (not much though) for more c.r. increase but u would need to mill the intake also for a match.
If u really want a torque monster u need a shorter cam on a shorter LSA. Try a Isky 270* Mega cam (even the 264* Mega would shred tires and still be be fast in the 1/4 - ask BK Broiler) on a 108 LSA or even special order on a 107 or 106 LSA. Yes this is old school but u are driving an old school GEN 0 sbc yes?
If u want good exh extraction with a short cam u want 1 5/8" long tube headers with long collectors - i like Doug Thorely headers myself but Hedman has something also.
Or u could just find a craigslist C3 rear pumpkin and give it some 4:11 or 4:56 gear (3:90 not what your looking for) before u slip it in - that will make some tires spin.
Enough from me. I tried to stay out of this but after reading your carb post i could only think u are getting way ahead of yourself and probably have plenty of tuning to correct - get the car to a local dyno and optimize your timing now - with a good carb. Had to get this out as although AFR makes some bad azz heads u would want bigger cam and much more compression than your block would support as is.
Not going to change the short block. Not going to pull the engine. Pistons are 20 dish and a half thousand in the hole which gave me 9.5 CR with the camel heads.
Not going to change the headers. They are Stans 1-3/4 tri-ys, 109Y.
I will use Lars Q-jet.
Might go to your recommended Isky.
Already thought about the 4.11's. Maybe. probably a good idea.
Probably Edelbrock Performer RPM intake.
Want the AFR 180's but how do I then get CR up and keep quench without changing pistons? Maybe realistically I can't.
Last edited by AWilson; 12-28-2014 at 02:20 PM.
12-28-2014, 02:08 PM
#53
Drifting
I always treat Lars with respect.
Not going to change the short block. Not going to pull the engine. Pistons are 20 dish and a half thousand in the hole which gave me 9.5 CR with the camel heads.
Not going to change the headers. They are Stans 1-3/4 tri-ys, 109Y.
I will use Lars Q-jet.
Might go to your recommended Isky.
Already thought about the 4.11's. Maybe. probably a good idea.
Want the AFR 180's but how do I then get CR up and keep quench without changing pistons?
Not going to change the short block. Not going to pull the engine. Pistons are 20 dish and a half thousand in the hole which gave me 9.5 CR with the camel heads.
Not going to change the headers. They are Stans 1-3/4 tri-ys, 109Y.
I will use Lars Q-jet.
Might go to your recommended Isky.
Already thought about the 4.11's. Maybe. probably a good idea.
Want the AFR 180's but how do I then get CR up and keep quench without changing pistons?
Welcome to the world of compromise!
12-28-2014, 09:28 PM
#55
Race Director
I would flat mill the AFR 65 .024 to 62 CC. I would go roller, something like this.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet
This gets you 9.65 to 1 and 7.87 to 1 DCR with an operating range of 1700-5500. The 108 LSA will increase cylinder pressures, midrange and throttle response. The duration @ .050 determines where power is at. The 225 will come on harder at the bottom than your 230 now. The extra lift and major duration difference @ .200, .300 and up will fill the cylinders better and maximize the capability of the heads. The valve events will make the engine think and respond like it has more compression. I could see a 40 ft lbs average torque increase across the powerband over your existing cam with the AFR heads. Would be real noticeable off idle and midrange.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet
This gets you 9.65 to 1 and 7.87 to 1 DCR with an operating range of 1700-5500. The 108 LSA will increase cylinder pressures, midrange and throttle response. The duration @ .050 determines where power is at. The 225 will come on harder at the bottom than your 230 now. The extra lift and major duration difference @ .200, .300 and up will fill the cylinders better and maximize the capability of the heads. The valve events will make the engine think and respond like it has more compression. I could see a 40 ft lbs average torque increase across the powerband over your existing cam with the AFR heads. Would be real noticeable off idle and midrange.
12-29-2014, 01:47 AM
#56
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2002
Location: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
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Sorry to crash your party again AW. But i thought your 20cc dish pistons were kinda - a huge dish - even for a 3.75 stroke. So i couldnt resist crunching the numbers. Well i get 9.02 static c.r. rather than 9.5. I could be wrong having crunched the numbers only once but im sure, more than sure someone here will correct me if wrong here. And even with 58cc heads static compression will be only 9.54:1 static.
Sorry bud but checked again. Im using 20cc dish, 5cc crevice vol, 0.040"x4.125"dia gasket and nothing for piston to deck vol (any piston to deck vol would only lower comp more). With 1cc = 0.061024in-cubed.
Your c.r. is dead low - for what u want to use. Again sorry for the bad news. For some reason it has to be me - again.
Sorry bud but checked again. Im using 20cc dish, 5cc crevice vol, 0.040"x4.125"dia gasket and nothing for piston to deck vol (any piston to deck vol would only lower comp more). With 1cc = 0.061024in-cubed.
Your c.r. is dead low - for what u want to use. Again sorry for the bad news. For some reason it has to be me - again.
12-29-2014, 07:49 AM
#57
Safety Car
[QUOTE=Cool Rocking Daddy;1588579201]Naw, why would he want to buy a head that will stomp all over a vortec when he can buy the vortecs and the matching manifold, and the self aligning rockers and the valve covers and the machine work to make them handle a cam with more than .470 lift and and and and. I guess if you want to spend the same amount of cash as a better head just to push 400 horses that's the way to go.
Do you always post on a product ( Fast Burn heads) you have no knowledge about ? You seam to go to great lengths to portray a depth of knowledge others should accept as factual ..Yet my goodness you are just so wrong it is shocking..
Fast burn head uses a GM Hot cam 525/525 .. The latest release can accept 600 or 650 lift with the new beehive springs they switched to. Untouched can handle 500 plus hp easily ..
Intakes are as cheap as any other
Uses center or standard valve covers .
Requires NO machine work at all
Can use push rod guides .. or self aligning rockers ...
Cost 525.00 each at summit .. I got a new set from Racing junk delivered for 800.00 a pair complete ..
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...FU4V7AodlggAJg
I really will not post again in this topic but please before you trash something and try to show how brilliant you are, make sure you have facts because with out them your just showing how ignorant your information is.
AFR 180 or a fast burn .. I would go with the GM head .. Every time ..
Do you always post on a product ( Fast Burn heads) you have no knowledge about ? You seam to go to great lengths to portray a depth of knowledge others should accept as factual ..Yet my goodness you are just so wrong it is shocking..
Fast burn head uses a GM Hot cam 525/525 .. The latest release can accept 600 or 650 lift with the new beehive springs they switched to. Untouched can handle 500 plus hp easily ..
Intakes are as cheap as any other
Uses center or standard valve covers .
Requires NO machine work at all
Can use push rod guides .. or self aligning rockers ...
Cost 525.00 each at summit .. I got a new set from Racing junk delivered for 800.00 a pair complete ..
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...FU4V7AodlggAJg
I really will not post again in this topic but please before you trash something and try to show how brilliant you are, make sure you have facts because with out them your just showing how ignorant your information is.
AFR 180 or a fast burn .. I would go with the GM head .. Every time ..
12-29-2014, 09:43 AM
#58
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
he will upgrade your heads if you want more power,I do not believe Afr will do this.
Seriously for what youre doing you dont need a pro porter just get a good aftermarket head out of the box mill if you have to and put them on.
12-29-2014, 11:30 AM
#59
Race Director
Sorry to crash your party again AW. But i thought your 20cc dish pistons were kinda - a huge dish - even for a 3.75 stroke. So i couldnt resist crunching the numbers. Well i get 9.02 static c.r. rather than 9.5. I could be wrong having crunched the numbers only once but im sure, more than sure someone here will correct me if wrong here. And even with 58cc heads static compression will be only 9.54:1 static.
Sorry bud but checked again. Im using 20cc dish, 5cc crevice vol, 0.040"x4.125"dia gasket and nothing for piston to deck vol (any piston to deck vol would only lower comp more). With 1cc = 0.061024in-cubed.
Your c.r. is dead low - for what u want to use. Again sorry for the bad news. For some reason it has to be me - again.
Sorry bud but checked again. Im using 20cc dish, 5cc crevice vol, 0.040"x4.125"dia gasket and nothing for piston to deck vol (any piston to deck vol would only lower comp more). With 1cc = 0.061024in-cubed.
Your c.r. is dead low - for what u want to use. Again sorry for the bad news. For some reason it has to be me - again.
5CC, Crevice volume???? What calculator are you using because your numbers are way off. If by "crevice volume" you are referring to the piston to bore clearance above the top ring that would be less than .5 and is not even part of the equation in most calculators. OP says he averages .00038 in the hole, figure 0 deck. The biggest gasket I would use is a .040 x 4.100 but Felpro makes a Steel core laminate gasket for Small chamber aluminum heads that is .039 x 4.080. Using this gasket and this calculator
http://www.jeepstrokers.com/calculator/
It figures 9.65 to 1 using these numbers
Cylinders 8
Bore 4.030
Stroke 3.75
Chamber 62 (flat milled .018)
Deck clearance .00038 (OP number)
Gasket thickness .039
Gasket bore 4.080
Dish 20 CC
piston ring height .250
Piston to bore clearance .006 (Figured max for forged pistons, racing setup) Likely less.
5.7 rod length
If I plug in your gasket I'm still @ 9.61 to 1
64CC with the big gasket is still 9.43 to 1
I would flat mill them. a .024 head cut will generally work fine with an undecked block, .040 gasket and stock thickness intake gasket and would get the chamber size to 61 (.006 per CC).
Last edited by 63mako; 12-29-2014 at 11:37 AM.
12-29-2014, 12:03 PM
#60
Race Director
Pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever read...."If a head comes close to the AFR in flow but is $500 less, it won't offer the same performance."
Check out what the head porters and engine builders say about Profiler heads. Check out the Profiler heads and what they flow with a csa the same size as the vaunted forged from the hand of God AFR head. BTW, those flow numbers are from an as-cast head vs the cnc ported AFR. An educated rodder is a fast rodder. The guy that buys the heads that are advertised more is the one that comes in second place.
Check out what the head porters and engine builders say about Profiler heads. Check out the Profiler heads and what they flow with a csa the same size as the vaunted forged from the hand of God AFR head. BTW, those flow numbers are from an as-cast head vs the cnc ported AFR. An educated rodder is a fast rodder. The guy that buys the heads that are advertised more is the one that comes in second place.
When comparing as cast to CNC the big difference is every port is identical, every combustion chamber is identical, flow numbers are identical. Flow and compression is exactly balanced throughout the engine.
Spring availability is important. Profiler lists 3 available springs. Flat tappet springs, hydraulic roller springs, solid roller springs W steel retainers or Titanium retainers. Proper spring seat pressure, open pressure, rate, and distance to coil bind availability is important. One size fits all is not valid and changing springs out can eat up most of that $400 you saved.
An educated rodder is a fast rodder.
Edit:The GM Fastburn 210 is "as cast" and $588 each BARE, No springs, no valves, no guide plates, no valve seals, no hardware. Seats are not ground. You will be way over the price of AFR by the time your done.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...FU4V7AodlggAJg
If you want the Fastburns assembled you have 1 spring option, as cast and will spend an extra $100 over AFR. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...0955/overview/
Last edited by 63mako; 12-29-2014 at 12:18 PM.
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