Richmond 6 speed transmission???
09-02-2002, 01:17 PM
#21
Drifting
Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (SIGNGUY)
Just installed a Richmond 6spd in my son's '69 over the weekend. We started on Saturday morning and finished Sunday evening.
The thing that took the longest was the crossmember. We cut out the center section and then made it removeable. We trimmed about 1/4" from the rear of the tunnel opening for linkage clearance. The same was done to the boot that goes screws to the opening. The front U-joint was replaced with one that works with the T400 yoke. The driveshaft did not have to be shortened.
The shifter comes out right in the middle of the console where it should and everything works great. We also installed a new McLeod 12" 3-finger pressure plate, disc, and aluminum flywheel. The scattershield had been previously dialed in.
This install is in stark contrast to the enormous amout of work I had to do to put the same trans in my '67. That job took about 3-4 weeks and ultimately entailed fabricating a new bracket to mount the shifter box and re-bending all the shift rods.
Steve
The thing that took the longest was the crossmember. We cut out the center section and then made it removeable. We trimmed about 1/4" from the rear of the tunnel opening for linkage clearance. The same was done to the boot that goes screws to the opening. The front U-joint was replaced with one that works with the T400 yoke. The driveshaft did not have to be shortened.
The shifter comes out right in the middle of the console where it should and everything works great. We also installed a new McLeod 12" 3-finger pressure plate, disc, and aluminum flywheel. The scattershield had been previously dialed in.
This install is in stark contrast to the enormous amout of work I had to do to put the same trans in my '67. That job took about 3-4 weeks and ultimately entailed fabricating a new bracket to mount the shifter box and re-bending all the shift rods.
Steve
09-02-2002, 01:50 PM
#22
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Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (542C2)
Thanks for the info.
I just sent a message to Tremec Tech support asking about fit of their trannies in my 79. I got an out of office auto-reply that the guy won't be in till the 9th, so I'll just have to wait till then.
Has anyone used the Tremec? What, if anything, did you have to modify?
I just sent a message to Tremec Tech support asking about fit of their trannies in my 79. I got an out of office auto-reply that the guy won't be in till the 9th, so I'll just have to wait till then.
Has anyone used the Tremec? What, if anything, did you have to modify?
09-02-2002, 02:15 PM
#23
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Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (SIGNGUY)
Here is the info on installing the Richmond 5 speed .
INSTALLING THE RICHMOND
STREET & ROAD RACE 5-SPEED
1963 TO 1982 CORVETTE WITH T-10 OR MUNCIE
To install the 5-speed, the transmission mount must be moved to the rear 2.25”. This has been accomplished by several methods. Some cross-members have a removable center extension that can be removed and re-fabricated. Some extensions are welded in and have to be cut out and re-fabricated. Another method commonly used is to cut the center section out of the cross-member and weld end plates with bolt holes on each end, then fabricate a removable center section. This way the motor does not have to be pulled to install or remove the transmission. Some have also cut out the complete cross-member and made a frame to frame bolt-in crossmember. On some of the Corvettes, a pulley for the emergency brake cable needs to be relocated. When relocating the trans-mission mount, check the driveline angle in the car. If the mount is too high, the transmission will hit the car floor pan, and it will change the drive shaft angle, which could cause a vibration.
Some Muncie and T-10 transmissions have a 10 spline input and 27 spline output. Some have a 26 spline input and 32 spline output. The 5-speed has a 32 spline output, so the drive shaft yoke may need to be changed. For a Corvette, the yoke has to be open end. A Chevrolet number for this yoke is 3930827.
The 5-speed uses the same bell-housing, flywheel, pilot bearing, throw-out bearing and pressure plate as the T-10 or Muncie.
The 5-speed can be supplied with a 10 or 26 spline input. If using a high torque motor or going to change the clutch anyway, use the 26 spline clutch, because the 26 fine splines are not cut as deep into the shaft as the 10 splines, which makes the 26 spline input 40 percent stronger.
T-10 or Muncie rubber transmission mount and speedometer parts may be reused or new parts are available from Chevrolet.
Two shifters are available: Hurst 407-0009 or Long HN1001. The shifter will fit the console with no modification to the console.
STREET & ROAD RACE 5-SPEED
1963 TO 1982 CORVETTE WITH T-10 OR MUNCIE
To install the 5-speed, the transmission mount must be moved to the rear 2.25”. This has been accomplished by several methods. Some cross-members have a removable center extension that can be removed and re-fabricated. Some extensions are welded in and have to be cut out and re-fabricated. Another method commonly used is to cut the center section out of the cross-member and weld end plates with bolt holes on each end, then fabricate a removable center section. This way the motor does not have to be pulled to install or remove the transmission. Some have also cut out the complete cross-member and made a frame to frame bolt-in crossmember. On some of the Corvettes, a pulley for the emergency brake cable needs to be relocated. When relocating the trans-mission mount, check the driveline angle in the car. If the mount is too high, the transmission will hit the car floor pan, and it will change the drive shaft angle, which could cause a vibration.
Some Muncie and T-10 transmissions have a 10 spline input and 27 spline output. Some have a 26 spline input and 32 spline output. The 5-speed has a 32 spline output, so the drive shaft yoke may need to be changed. For a Corvette, the yoke has to be open end. A Chevrolet number for this yoke is 3930827.
The 5-speed uses the same bell-housing, flywheel, pilot bearing, throw-out bearing and pressure plate as the T-10 or Muncie.
The 5-speed can be supplied with a 10 or 26 spline input. If using a high torque motor or going to change the clutch anyway, use the 26 spline clutch, because the 26 fine splines are not cut as deep into the shaft as the 10 splines, which makes the 26 spline input 40 percent stronger.
T-10 or Muncie rubber transmission mount and speedometer parts may be reused or new parts are available from Chevrolet.
Two shifters are available: Hurst 407-0009 or Long HN1001. The shifter will fit the console with no modification to the console.
09-02-2002, 03:06 PM
#24
Safety Car
Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (SIGNGUY)
That part about crossmember fabrication sounds scary. If ya don't get the tranny height right, the pinion angle will be wrong and your driveshaft is screwed. Sure would be nice if someone made a kit to install this into C3s. I would throw down the cash if I could have all the parts to install a 6 speed in a weekend. MIght be an opportunity here for someone..........
09-02-2002, 04:21 PM
#25
Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (542C2)
Just installed a Richmond 6spd in my son's '69 over the weekend. We started on Saturday morning and finished Sunday evening.
The thing that took the longest was the crossmember. We cut out the center section and then made it removeable. We trimmed about 1/4" from the rear of the tunnel opening for linkage clearance. The same was done to the boot that goes screws to the opening. The front U-joint was replaced with one that works with the T400 yoke. The driveshaft did not have to be shortened.
The shifter comes out right in the middle of the console where it should and everything works great. We also installed a new McLeod 12" 3-finger pressure plate, disc, and aluminum flywheel. The scattershield had been previously dialed in.
This install is in stark contrast to the enormous amout of work I had to do to put the same trans in my '67. That job took about 3-4 weeks and ultimately entailed fabricating a new bracket to mount the shifter box and re-bending all the shift rods.
Steve
The thing that took the longest was the crossmember. We cut out the center section and then made it removeable. We trimmed about 1/4" from the rear of the tunnel opening for linkage clearance. The same was done to the boot that goes screws to the opening. The front U-joint was replaced with one that works with the T400 yoke. The driveshaft did not have to be shortened.
The shifter comes out right in the middle of the console where it should and everything works great. We also installed a new McLeod 12" 3-finger pressure plate, disc, and aluminum flywheel. The scattershield had been previously dialed in.
This install is in stark contrast to the enormous amout of work I had to do to put the same trans in my '67. That job took about 3-4 weeks and ultimately entailed fabricating a new bracket to mount the shifter box and re-bending all the shift rods.
Steve
On the 1967, we also relocated the trans. mount to the front of the crossmember- same as the '79. But because it was a 4 speed car to begin with, the crossmember was welded in. I didn't want to cut the frame, so the trans. was installed as a unit along with the new BB motor. The emergency brake bracket had to be slightly moved, and the trans is slightly offset to the right. This enables the shifter to come up through the same hole, and the shifter fit without cutting the tunnel. The shifter mechanism sits 1 1/2" higher than the Muncie, but I reversed the rubber boot, and it fits just fine. The TH400 front yoke was mated to the stock driveshaft with an asymmetrical U-joint. I had to slightly grind a boss on the trans case that was interfering with the second gear throw. The linkage works perfectly, and I used a Muncie-style rabbit-ear chrome handle that's available for Hurst shifters. Again, that fit fine. The interior looks stock, and the only difference is the 1 1/2" higher shifter height. Most gearheads at cruise-ins don't even notice anything different.
:yesnod: :chevy :chevy :yesnod:
BTW, Steve, your car is UN-FRICKEN-BELIEVABLY AWESOME. What a beautiful, beautiful job you did! Congratulations!
:chevy :chevy :chevy :chevy
09-02-2002, 05:02 PM
#26
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Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (MassVette)
In my 1979, we relocated the trans. mount to the front of the removeable crossmember. ... On the 1967, we also relocated the trans. mount to the front of the crossmember- same as the '79. But because it was a 4 speed car to begin with, the crossmember was welded in.
09-02-2002, 06:45 PM
#27
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (GrandSportC3)
The Tremec TKO is the cheapest and strongest alternative if you want an overdrive gear (.68). This transmission bolts right on the existing bellhousing (the GM version).
Here are the main modifications to install the TKO:
1) shortening the driveshaft
2) cutting a hole into the tunnel where the shifter comes up and cover the hole where the old shifter came up
3) modify the console or weld a bracket on the shifter to space it to the correct location (shifter comes up in the middle)
4) Get a special bracket ($80) from Bowtie Overdrives to mount the tranny to the existing crossmember or get a custom $200 crossmember
5) You need a special Yoke $225 and a special U-joint (I can provide you with part numbers if needed)
Here are the main modifications to install the TKO:
1) shortening the driveshaft
2) cutting a hole into the tunnel where the shifter comes up and cover the hole where the old shifter came up
3) modify the console or weld a bracket on the shifter to space it to the correct location (shifter comes up in the middle)
4) Get a special bracket ($80) from Bowtie Overdrives to mount the tranny to the existing crossmember or get a custom $200 crossmember
5) You need a special Yoke $225 and a special U-joint (I can provide you with part numbers if needed)
i think im moving away from the richmond and going in this direction...
lower cost...seemingly easier install...
and it seems that it would give me what im after...an OD...
i dont think i really need six speeds...i just want one higher one...
are all of the other 4 speeds the same ratios as my 4 speed?
will it work well with my 3.55 rear end?
i would rather deal with the shifter coming up thru the middle than all of that crossmember stuff...if there is a kit for it as stated...
what kind of luck have you had with the Tremec TKO 5-speed??
wheres the best place to get a deal on one?
what about the speedo hookup and accuracy??
how do these numbers match up to my current 4 speed??
1st, 3.37
2nd, 1.99
3rd, 1.33
4th, 1.00
[Modified by SIGNGUY, 6:17 PM 9/2/2002]
09-02-2002, 07:12 PM
#28
Mount
I put a 6 speed ROD in my 68. I cut the crossmember, welded on some brackets, made a tranny mount out of an "L" shaped piece of metal and bolted it on.
I can take some pictures if someone really wants to see this.
I can take some pictures if someone really wants to see this.
09-02-2002, 09:20 PM
#29
Team Owner
Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (SIGNGUY)
well...so far this sounds more like something id be willing to do...
i think im moving away from the richmond and going in this direction...
lower cost...seemingly easier install...
and it seems that it would give me what im after...an OD...
i dont think i really need six speeds...i just want one higher one...
are all of the other 4 speeds the same ratios as my 4 speed?
will it work well with my 3.55 rear end?
i would rather deal with the shifter coming up thru the middle than all of that crossmember stuff...if there is a kit for it as stated...
what kind of luck have you had with the Tremec TKO 5-speed??
wheres the best place to get a deal on one?
what about the speedo hookup and accuracy??
how do these numbers match up to my current 4 speed??
1st, 3.37
2nd, 1.99
3rd, 1.33
4th, 1.00
i think im moving away from the richmond and going in this direction...
lower cost...seemingly easier install...
and it seems that it would give me what im after...an OD...
i dont think i really need six speeds...i just want one higher one...
are all of the other 4 speeds the same ratios as my 4 speed?
will it work well with my 3.55 rear end?
i would rather deal with the shifter coming up thru the middle than all of that crossmember stuff...if there is a kit for it as stated...
what kind of luck have you had with the Tremec TKO 5-speed??
wheres the best place to get a deal on one?
what about the speedo hookup and accuracy??
how do these numbers match up to my current 4 speed??
1st, 3.37
2nd, 1.99
3rd, 1.33
4th, 1.00
1st 3.27
2nd 1.98
3rd 1.34
4th 1.00
5th .68
Reverse 3.00
The transmission works well with my 3.55 gears - however - you need sticky tires to get traction with this kind of gear ratio...
Bowtie Overdrive (http://www.700r4.com) sells a bracket for $80 which is used to bolt the transmission to the existing cross member. However - they stopped producing those brackets and they only had a few left when I got mine.. Maybe they have some more...
I bought my TKO at:
http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com
for $1795 (-$50 discount because they didn't have a matching Yoke)
The transmission is also available at:
http://www.fortesparts.com
for $1975
Forte is more expensive but AFAIK - has the transmissions in stock.
If you order from Hanlon - you might have to wait 1 - 2 monts...
The transmission comes with a GM conversion speedo cable hookup. They will also send you speedo gears according to your gear ratio and tire size. (approx. $15 extra)
The special yoke costs $215 at Mark Williams Enterprises.
The TKO is a sweet shifting transmission!! The internal shifter is so much more precise!!
:cheers:
Olivier
09-02-2002, 09:34 PM
#30
Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (SIGNGUY)
i have a 3.55 rear end...how will that be or would i need to change that too?
09-02-2002, 10:07 PM
#31
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (GrandSportC3)
Here are the gear ratios of the TKO:
1st 3.27
2nd 1.98
3rd 1.34
4th 1.00
5th .68
Reverse 3.00
The transmission works well with my 3.55 gears - however - you need sticky tires to get traction with this kind of gear ratio...
Bowtie Overdrive (http://www.700r4.com) sells a bracket for $80 which is used to bolt the transmission to the existing cross member. However - they stopped producing those brackets and they only had a few left when I got mine.. Maybe they have some more...
1st 3.27
2nd 1.98
3rd 1.34
4th 1.00
5th .68
Reverse 3.00
The transmission works well with my 3.55 gears - however - you need sticky tires to get traction with this kind of gear ratio...
Bowtie Overdrive (http://www.700r4.com) sells a bracket for $80 which is used to bolt the transmission to the existing cross member. However - they stopped producing those brackets and they only had a few left when I got mine.. Maybe they have some more...
09-02-2002, 10:12 PM
#32
Team Owner
Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (SIGNGUY)
If you have a M21:
1st 2.20
2nd 1.64
3rd 1.28
4th 1.00
Reverse 2.27
M20 has identical ratios exept that the first gear is 2.56
1st 2.20
2nd 1.64
3rd 1.28
4th 1.00
Reverse 2.27
M20 has identical ratios exept that the first gear is 2.56
09-02-2002, 11:43 PM
#33
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Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (GrandSportC3)
If you have a M21:
1st 2.20
2nd 1.64
3rd 1.28
4th 1.00
Reverse 2.27
M20 has identical ratios exept that the first gear is 2.56
1st 2.20
2nd 1.64
3rd 1.28
4th 1.00
Reverse 2.27
M20 has identical ratios exept that the first gear is 2.56
09-03-2002, 07:11 AM
#34
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (Captain Morgan)
thanx again...
so, by the looks i will have a lot more aggressive 1st gear and 2nd thru 4th look good too...
so my question is...with my 3.55 rear end, in 5th gear (.68) what kind of RPMs will i be turning at say, 70 MPH?
i am going to start a new thread on the Tremec TKO 5-speed and scrap the richmond idea...too expensive and too difficult to install...
also because the TKO seems to be exactly what i am looking for...a more aggressive 1st and an overdrive gear :)
is the T45 the one that im looking for?
[Modified by SIGNGUY, 6:43 AM 9/3/2002]
so, by the looks i will have a lot more aggressive 1st gear and 2nd thru 4th look good too...
so my question is...with my 3.55 rear end, in 5th gear (.68) what kind of RPMs will i be turning at say, 70 MPH?
i am going to start a new thread on the Tremec TKO 5-speed and scrap the richmond idea...too expensive and too difficult to install...
also because the TKO seems to be exactly what i am looking for...a more aggressive 1st and an overdrive gear :)
is the T45 the one that im looking for?
[Modified by SIGNGUY, 6:43 AM 9/3/2002]
09-03-2002, 08:31 AM
#35
Team Owner
Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (SIGNGUY)
thanx again...
so, by the looks i will have a lot more aggressive 1st gear and 2nd thru 4th look good too...
so my question is...with my 3.55 rear end, in 5th gear (.68) what kind of RPMs will i be turning at say, 70 MPH?
i am going to start a new thread on the Tremec TKO 5-speed and scrap the richmond idea...too expensive and too difficult to install...
also because the TKO seems to be exactly what i am looking for...a more aggressive 1st and an overdrive gear :)
is the T45 the one that im looking for?
so, by the looks i will have a lot more aggressive 1st gear and 2nd thru 4th look good too...
so my question is...with my 3.55 rear end, in 5th gear (.68) what kind of RPMs will i be turning at say, 70 MPH?
i am going to start a new thread on the Tremec TKO 5-speed and scrap the richmond idea...too expensive and too difficult to install...
also because the TKO seems to be exactly what i am looking for...a more aggressive 1st and an overdrive gear :)
is the T45 the one that im looking for?
I don't think that anybody is selling the T45 for GM.. The only Tremec 5-speeds that are available for GM are: 3550 (at Fortes), TKO (at Fortes and Hanlon) and T56 (at Fortes)....
09-03-2002, 01:26 PM
#36
Drifting
Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (MassVette)
Thanks, MassVette! As you are well aware of a project like this takes a lot of time and hard work. By the sounds and looks of it you have done your share of work also. It looks like your '79 is the one you like to modify and the '67 is the one you don't want to alter too much. Both of those cars are gorgeous! Definitely something to be proud of. What color is your '79? It really looks good in that picture.
Now that my son's '69 is done I am back to working on the '67.
I bought a G-Force clutch assisted racing 5-speed that I am installing right now. What a piece of cake! The only thing I am having to modify is the trans mount. It just needs to be extended back about an inch or so. This trans is designed to withstand 1200hp or more so even when I install nitrous I will be ok.
I can't wait to take it for a drive with this tranny. Unfortunately I will be out of town for a few days this week which will postpone the completion. I have taken some side by side pictures of the G-Force 5spd and the Richmond 6spd that I will be posting over in the C2 area within the next few days.
Steve
Now that my son's '69 is done I am back to working on the '67.
I bought a G-Force clutch assisted racing 5-speed that I am installing right now. What a piece of cake! The only thing I am having to modify is the trans mount. It just needs to be extended back about an inch or so. This trans is designed to withstand 1200hp or more so even when I install nitrous I will be ok.
I can't wait to take it for a drive with this tranny. Unfortunately I will be out of town for a few days this week which will postpone the completion. I have taken some side by side pictures of the G-Force 5spd and the Richmond 6spd that I will be posting over in the C2 area within the next few days.
Steve
09-03-2002, 02:44 PM
#37
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Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (GrandSportC3)
If you have a M21:
1st 2.20
2nd 1.64
3rd 1.28
4th 1.00
Reverse 2.27
M20 has identical ratios exept that the first gear is 2.56
1st 2.20
2nd 1.64
3rd 1.28
4th 1.00
Reverse 2.27
M20 has identical ratios exept that the first gear is 2.56
1st: 2.52
2nd: 1.88
3rd: 1.47
4th: 1
09-03-2002, 03:05 PM
#38
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Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (Chris A)
What most people don't notice is that the close ratio and the wide ratio gear boxes shown above have about the same percentage change between the first three gears. The close ratio box keeps this tight from 3-4th, while the wide ratio has a much bigger jump from 3-4th. The beauty of the wide ratio is that you can run lower numerical gears for good mileage, but have the same off line gear multiplication as the high performance close ratio boxes with significantly higher numerical gears. i.e. 3.08 = 3.55 with wide vs. close ratio trannies.
The only problem with the wide ratio is that it puts too much leverage on the transmission case in first gear. Like using a cheater bar on a 3/8's drive socket wrench. Small block ok, mild BB ok, BB and dumping clutch :nono:
Chuck
[Modified by Chuck Harmon, 11:27 AM 9/3/2002]
09-03-2002, 05:18 PM
#39
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Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (74VETTE)
74Vette...
I wonder if you couldnt install a gated shifter like on the ferrari's... steel plate cut with the slots in the right patern for the shifter?
I've wanted to make the conversion from auto to manual for a while now... and a rod would be nice :yesnod:
I wonder if you couldnt install a gated shifter like on the ferrari's... steel plate cut with the slots in the right patern for the shifter?
I've wanted to make the conversion from auto to manual for a while now... and a rod would be nice :yesnod:
09-03-2002, 11:50 PM
#40
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Re: Richmond 6 speed transmission??? (Captain Morgan)
Reposting this for MassVette to see and respond to. I'm seriously contemplating a 5 or 6 speed tranny also but would like as much info as possible.
Okay, my 79 has a 4 speed with the welded in crossmember. Not really an issue because I would install the new tranny when I pull the engine. However, what exactly is involved in relocating the trans. mount? Is it just a few simple bolts? Or is fabrication involved?
In my 1979, we relocated the trans. mount to the front of the removeable crossmember. ... On the 1967, we also relocated the trans. mount to the front of the crossmember- same as the '79. But because it was a 4 speed car to begin with, the crossmember was welded in.