What are the Differences between a 1970, LT1 & L46
#41
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Re: What are the Differences between a 1970, LT1 & L46 (Solidlifters)
"Must have been only the 69 Camaro LT-1 "
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"Of course no camaro was every badged LT-1 but they had the LT-1 in them."
Not in 69 they didn't. 69 Z 28's were 302's still.
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"Of course no camaro was every badged LT-1 but they had the LT-1 in them."
Not in 69 they didn't. 69 Z 28's were 302's still.
Since you have all the answer, did the 69 z-28 302 have pressed or bushed pins and are you 100% no LT-1 where produced with bushed pins?
Maybe you should write a book. :rolleyes:
#42
Re: What are the Differences between a 1970, LT1 & L46 (Fevre)
Hmmmmm, a little sarcasm here? Well, that's okay I guess. Maybe I should write a book. After all I am a legend in my own mind.
Anyhow: "Since you have all the answer, did the 69 z-28 302 have pressed or bushed pins and are you 100% no LT-1 where produced with bushed pins?"
Actually, I've only owned 2 Z28's, a 69 original paint, original motor, and a 70 turbo 400 which was less an original car. I never went in the 69 motor except to pull the valve covers and look at the casting numbers & dates the day I bought it. The 70 probably wasn't worth examining from a historical standpoint, having had a warranty block assembly early in life when a backseat passenger was rumored to have reached and pulled the shifter back to low at 100MPH on the interstate. Unfortuantely I sold them both when my storage crisis was about what it's back to now, so the access is gone.
Back to the question of the pins, I have no idea, but I wonder if you mean "pressed pins or floated pins" instead of "bushed". I've never seen "bushed" pins factory installed in an engine, but again, "I've never seen" is far from a statement that it never happened.
I actually have no idea whether LT1's were ever factory equiped with floating pins, but I've have GUESSED not if somebody asked me to guess.
Anyhow: "Since you have all the answer, did the 69 z-28 302 have pressed or bushed pins and are you 100% no LT-1 where produced with bushed pins?"
Actually, I've only owned 2 Z28's, a 69 original paint, original motor, and a 70 turbo 400 which was less an original car. I never went in the 69 motor except to pull the valve covers and look at the casting numbers & dates the day I bought it. The 70 probably wasn't worth examining from a historical standpoint, having had a warranty block assembly early in life when a backseat passenger was rumored to have reached and pulled the shifter back to low at 100MPH on the interstate. Unfortuantely I sold them both when my storage crisis was about what it's back to now, so the access is gone.
Back to the question of the pins, I have no idea, but I wonder if you mean "pressed pins or floated pins" instead of "bushed". I've never seen "bushed" pins factory installed in an engine, but again, "I've never seen" is far from a statement that it never happened.
I actually have no idea whether LT1's were ever factory equiped with floating pins, but I've have GUESSED not if somebody asked me to guess.
#43
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Re: What are the Differences between a 1970, LT1 & L46 (Raydon 3000)
Regarding "pressed vs full floating pins", here are the part numbers for the rods.
I am assuming that if you have a "non pressed" pin, then the rod should be different.
I am assuming that if you have a "non pressed" pin, then the rod should be different.
#44
Emerging Vendor
Re: What are the Differences between a 1970, LT1 & L46 (Barry's70LT1)
I had a DZ 69 Z28 302 engine many years ago(in another car) and I recall that it had floating pins.
#45
Melting Slicks
Re: What are the Differences between a 1970, LT1 & L46
The production 1970-72 LT-1 and and 1969-70 L-46 engines all used pressed piston pins. This makes complete sense in that while both were high performance street engines, neither was designed specifically as a race engine. Pressed pins are pretty foolproof compared to floating pins (and their associated locks)... Where floating pins are really appreciated is in race engines where the engine is disassembled for inspection/rebuild on a regular basis. There is no difference in power output between the two styles of piston pins.
There was supposed to be an LT-1 option available for the Corvette in 1969 which is probably where most of the confusion occurs. The 1969 LT-1 would have had floating pins and that is why there are two seperate connecting rod listings for the special high performance engine. I'm in agreement with Greg; if I recall correctly, the 302 engine used in the 1969 Z-28 floating pins... I'll see if I can't come up with a more definitive answer in the next day or so. I'd bet if you cross-referenced the part numbers, the 1969 spec LT-1 and the 1969 Z-28 would use the same connecting rod (although the pistons would be different).
I discussed the piston/pin issue with Joe Lucia a few months back... The text of this email follows for those of you that are interested.
Regards,
There was supposed to be an LT-1 option available for the Corvette in 1969 which is probably where most of the confusion occurs. The 1969 LT-1 would have had floating pins and that is why there are two seperate connecting rod listings for the special high performance engine. I'm in agreement with Greg; if I recall correctly, the 302 engine used in the 1969 Z-28 floating pins... I'll see if I can't come up with a more definitive answer in the next day or so. I'd bet if you cross-referenced the part numbers, the 1969 spec LT-1 and the 1969 Z-28 would use the same connecting rod (although the pistons would be different).
I discussed the piston/pin issue with Joe Lucia a few months back... The text of this email follows for those of you that are interested.
Stan-----
I believe that these numbers are casting/forging numbers (part number
for the forging/casting) and not actual part numbers for a finished
part. However, I think that we can identify them anyway. The forging
number 3942545 appears to me to be part of the series of part numbers
used for pistons for 1969-70 L-46 engines. For these engines the std
piston was 3942541, the +.001 was GM #3942542, and the +.030 was GM
#3942543. No other sizes were available.
The 3959456 appears to be part of a series of numbers used for pistons
for the 1969 special high performance 350 (LT-1). Of course, these
pistons were never used for a PRODUCTION engine, but they were sold for
quite a few years in SERVICE and as part of SERVICE engine assemblies.
They differ from the 70 LT-1 pistons inasmuch as the 69 were set up for
full floating pins; the 70 were set up for pressed pins. Anyway, for the
69 SHP, the std piston was GM #3959448, the +.001" piston was GM
#3959450, the +.020" was GM #3959452, and the +.030" was GM #3959454. It is also possible that the same forgings, including forging numbers, were used for the 1970 LT-1 pistons. These pistons were GM #3989048, 3989049, 3989050, and 3989051. If they're set up for pressed pins, then they're the 70 pistons; if they're set up for floating pins then they're the 69 pistons. I'd be curious here to know which ones they turn out to be.
There was likely more than 1 casting/forging number for each series of
pistons since, for instance, the standard piston would have to have a
different forging than the +.030". But, I do not have a reference as to
what the forging number was for each finished part number. So, I can't
tell you which bore size that these pistons were for. However, with a
micrometer, this should be easily settled.
I'm quite certain, though, that the casting/forging number that you
provided settles the issue of what application that the pistons are for
and those applications are as I have described above.
Best Regards,
Joe
I believe that these numbers are casting/forging numbers (part number
for the forging/casting) and not actual part numbers for a finished
part. However, I think that we can identify them anyway. The forging
number 3942545 appears to me to be part of the series of part numbers
used for pistons for 1969-70 L-46 engines. For these engines the std
piston was 3942541, the +.001 was GM #3942542, and the +.030 was GM
#3942543. No other sizes were available.
The 3959456 appears to be part of a series of numbers used for pistons
for the 1969 special high performance 350 (LT-1). Of course, these
pistons were never used for a PRODUCTION engine, but they were sold for
quite a few years in SERVICE and as part of SERVICE engine assemblies.
They differ from the 70 LT-1 pistons inasmuch as the 69 were set up for
full floating pins; the 70 were set up for pressed pins. Anyway, for the
69 SHP, the std piston was GM #3959448, the +.001" piston was GM
#3959450, the +.020" was GM #3959452, and the +.030" was GM #3959454. It is also possible that the same forgings, including forging numbers, were used for the 1970 LT-1 pistons. These pistons were GM #3989048, 3989049, 3989050, and 3989051. If they're set up for pressed pins, then they're the 70 pistons; if they're set up for floating pins then they're the 69 pistons. I'd be curious here to know which ones they turn out to be.
There was likely more than 1 casting/forging number for each series of
pistons since, for instance, the standard piston would have to have a
different forging than the +.030". But, I do not have a reference as to
what the forging number was for each finished part number. So, I can't
tell you which bore size that these pistons were for. However, with a
micrometer, this should be easily settled.
I'm quite certain, though, that the casting/forging number that you
provided settles the issue of what application that the pistons are for
and those applications are as I have described above.
Best Regards,
Joe
#46
Melting Slicks
Re: What are the Differences between a 1970, LT1 & L46
Could it have been the 70 Camaro with the LT-1? And for that matter, what was different in the camaro that had the engine rated with 10 less hp at 360?
1970 LT-1 applications for the Camaro (Z-28) and Nova (COPO 9010) used a dual snorkle, closed element air filter, dual exhaust with standard exhaust manifolds and a single cross flow muffler, and a standard single point ignition system. While the single point distributor probably had little effect on overall performance, the exhaust and air filter arrangement almost certainly did. I would think that ONLY a 10 horsepower loss is generous. Broadcast codes for LT-1 Camaro/Nova applications were CTB and CTC... One for four speed manual transmissions, the other for automatics. While there was an oil pan/power steering compatibility issue with early LT-1 Corvettes, no such problem existed with the Camaros/Novas which used a small pan than the Corvettes.
I've always wondered if the unused CTR code for Corvettes was intended for an LT-1 automatic application, but I've never found any documentation to support this theory.
Regards,
#47
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Re: What are the Differences between a 1970, LT1 & L46 (Solidlifters)
Hmmmmm, a little sarcasm here? Well, that's okay I guess. Maybe I should write a book. After all I am a legend in my own mind.
Anyhow: "Since you have all the answer, did the 69 z-28 302 have pressed or bushed pins and are you 100% no LT-1 where produced with bushed pins?"
Actually, I've only owned 2 Z28's, a 69 original paint, original motor, and a 70 turbo 400 which was less an original car. I never went in the 69 motor except to pull the valve covers and look at the casting numbers & dates the day I bought it. The 70 probably wasn't worth examining from a historical standpoint, having had a warranty block assembly early in life when a backseat passenger was rumored to have reached and pulled the shifter back to low at 100MPH on the interstate. Unfortuantely I sold them both when my storage crisis was about what it's back to now, so the access is gone.
Back to the question of the pins, I have no idea, but I wonder if you mean "pressed pins or floated pins" instead of "bushed". I've never seen "bushed" pins factory installed in an engine, but again, "I've never seen" is far from a statement that it never happened.
I actually have no idea whether LT1's were ever factory equiped with floating pins, but I've have GUESSED not if somebody asked me to guess.
Anyhow: "Since you have all the answer, did the 69 z-28 302 have pressed or bushed pins and are you 100% no LT-1 where produced with bushed pins?"
Actually, I've only owned 2 Z28's, a 69 original paint, original motor, and a 70 turbo 400 which was less an original car. I never went in the 69 motor except to pull the valve covers and look at the casting numbers & dates the day I bought it. The 70 probably wasn't worth examining from a historical standpoint, having had a warranty block assembly early in life when a backseat passenger was rumored to have reached and pulled the shifter back to low at 100MPH on the interstate. Unfortuantely I sold them both when my storage crisis was about what it's back to now, so the access is gone.
Back to the question of the pins, I have no idea, but I wonder if you mean "pressed pins or floated pins" instead of "bushed". I've never seen "bushed" pins factory installed in an engine, but again, "I've never seen" is far from a statement that it never happened.
I actually have no idea whether LT1's were ever factory equiped with floating pins, but I've have GUESSED not if somebody asked me to guess.
:cheers:
[Modified by Fevre, 1:03 PM 9/9/2002]
#48
I have owned both a 71- LT-1 (330) AND 2001 C5 VERT( 350). (still have the c-5)
the low end power and sound of the Lt-1 gave me chills, BUT high end acceleration , comfort and handling the C-5 wins.
Still I miss the sound of that "lopey" idle
#49
Le Mans Master
The only LT-1 that was really special in my opinion was the 70 LT-1 (370 Gross HP, probably around 285-290 NET HP) with 11:1 compression. The 71 LT-1 (330 Gross HP, 9:1 compression) was really no different than the early L-82's with 255/250 NET HP (9:1 compression). In fact, when the switch was made from Gross HP to Net HP in 1972, we know the 71 LT-1 rated @330 Gross HP was only 255 NET HP in 1972-esentially the same motor..A 350 NET HP C5 would smoke any of the LT-1's 0-60 sec and 1/4 mile (70 LT-1 only 0-60sec/1.4 mile-mid 5's/mid 13's versus high 4's/low 13's with a stick)…Really no comparison…especially with the weight and traction advantage of the C5, especially C5Z06..
Last edited by jb78L-82; 03-01-2015 at 07:56 AM.
#50
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Hi,
Boy!!! Quite a thread from long ago!
Some very interesting information and conversations in this thread.
Some people REALLY know stuff!
I think the LT-1 does deserve that (!).
Regards,
Alan
Boy!!! Quite a thread from long ago!
Some very interesting information and conversations in this thread.
Some people REALLY know stuff!
I think the LT-1 does deserve that (!).
Regards,
Alan
Last edited by Alan 71; 03-01-2015 at 08:00 AM.