Aluminum radiators and related topics
01-16-2018, 03:18 PM
#81
So Dewitts for trim and polish, but it comes at a premium. Champion if you're on a budget. Both seem to get the job done. Is the black ice on the Dewitt's worth it?
I'm still making a wish list so I'm hoping for more info. Besides the obvious on electric fans vs mechanical with HP loss, cooling effects, electricity draw, what are some preferred combos? dual fan vice one? After reading the thread about cooling the interior of the C3, anyone have try a dual fan? One for the rad, one to circulate air to stop the car from turning into an oven?
And what about tranny coolers? I'm planning on keeping the tranny auto as I have the body of an 80 year old with knees that are held together with hopes and dreams so stick is slowly getting less fun in traffic. Heat kills transmissions and I'm hoping that can be touched in this thread. If it's covered elsewhere, I just need direction.
There's lots of threads on this forum and I've been doing a ton of researching instead of working and for the most part I'm much more educated than when I started.
I'm still making a wish list so I'm hoping for more info. Besides the obvious on electric fans vs mechanical with HP loss, cooling effects, electricity draw, what are some preferred combos? dual fan vice one? After reading the thread about cooling the interior of the C3, anyone have try a dual fan? One for the rad, one to circulate air to stop the car from turning into an oven?
And what about tranny coolers? I'm planning on keeping the tranny auto as I have the body of an 80 year old with knees that are held together with hopes and dreams so stick is slowly getting less fun in traffic. Heat kills transmissions and I'm hoping that can be touched in this thread. If it's covered elsewhere, I just need direction.
There's lots of threads on this forum and I've been doing a ton of researching instead of working and for the most part I'm much more educated than when I started.
05-21-2018, 08:11 PM
#82
I got the Champion 2-row for my car. 75 ac coupe with a ZZ6 crate. I ordered it with their shroud and 16” SPAL hi perf fan which they offer as an upgrade. After some fiddling around with the brackets I ended up making custom phenolic block spacers for all 4 corners. It is solid as granite.
Also I tricked the relay controlling the fan into thinking the key is “on” all the time. If you shut the engine off when it’s toasty the fan will run until it’s cool.
Everything seems very well made and a fair deal. George at Ledfoot Racing has been very helpful with after sales support.
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aoerding (03-19-2024)
06-17-2018, 10:42 AM
#83
Heel & Toe
Member Since: Jun 2017
Location: Chatham Illinois
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Tyrus
08-30-2018, 09:42 PM
#85
Instructor
10-03-2018, 01:15 AM
#87
Racer
Have a 142 weiand supercharger thats overdriven so my vette runs HOT. I put a DeWitts in and it lowered average temp by 10 degrees. Old radiator was not original and in excellent shape. After the deWitts the next year I added SPALS. Dual pullers. 15-20 degrees less. Car has not overheated a single time no matter how hard I push it. Those were the only changes I made that would affect temp. Sold on the radiator/SPAL combo.
10-05-2018, 01:57 AM
#88
Race Director
I'm starting to do the research on a radiator for my 73 big block resto/mod.
I'll be running a 496cu in, a TKO-600, a/c and dual spal fans.
The three radiators I'm looking at are:
1. DeWitts
2. Be Cool
3. Griffin
Griffin is a good radiator used by many with hot rods. They have great reviews but I found they are epoxied together rather than welded at the tanks. I imagine this is not as preferred as welded. Am I correct in this thinking?
Be Cool has top quality craftsmanship, welded throughout, but they are only available with 1 inch tubes.
DeWitts has top quality craftsmanship, welded throughout and have the option of 1.25 inch tubes.
All three appear to have excellent shroud and fan set ups according to their web sites.
My questions at this time are:
1. How much advantage do 1.25 inch tubes give over 1 inch tubes? And why?
2. What is the advantage of dual fans over a single fan if both are pushing the same amount of air?
3. Is it better to have a shroud that fully covers the radiator fins or a shroud that does not totally cover the fins?
4. I've heard that the new aluminum radiators are manufactured in a way that really only requires them to be two core. Why is this and why wouldn't three cores be better than two?
I think that's it for now!
I'll be running a 496cu in, a TKO-600, a/c and dual spal fans.
The three radiators I'm looking at are:
1. DeWitts
2. Be Cool
3. Griffin
Griffin is a good radiator used by many with hot rods. They have great reviews but I found they are epoxied together rather than welded at the tanks. I imagine this is not as preferred as welded. Am I correct in this thinking?
Be Cool has top quality craftsmanship, welded throughout, but they are only available with 1 inch tubes.
DeWitts has top quality craftsmanship, welded throughout and have the option of 1.25 inch tubes.
All three appear to have excellent shroud and fan set ups according to their web sites.
My questions at this time are:
1. How much advantage do 1.25 inch tubes give over 1 inch tubes? And why?
2. What is the advantage of dual fans over a single fan if both are pushing the same amount of air?
3. Is it better to have a shroud that fully covers the radiator fins or a shroud that does not totally cover the fins?
4. I've heard that the new aluminum radiators are manufactured in a way that really only requires them to be two core. Why is this and why wouldn't three cores be better than two?
I think that's it for now!
Last edited by OldCarBum; 10-05-2018 at 02:13 AM.
10-05-2018, 09:42 AM
#89
Le Mans Master
Call Griffin and ask why they use epoxy,, generally a company like that has a reason they do it.it may not just be cheaper.
Years years ago when they came out with panel Bond I thought it was ridiculous but after I saw it and use I said holy cow that stuff is dynamite.
Years years ago when they came out with panel Bond I thought it was ridiculous but after I saw it and use I said holy cow that stuff is dynamite.
10-05-2018, 10:42 AM
#90
Former Vendor
My questions at this time are:
1. How much advantage do 1.25 inch tubes give over 1 inch tubes? And why?
2. What is the advantage of dual fans over a single fan if both are pushing the same amount of air?
3. Is it better to have a shroud that fully covers the radiator fins or a shroud that does not totally cover the fins?
4. I've heard that the new aluminum radiators are manufactured in a way that really only requires them to be two core. Why is this and why wouldn't three cores be better than two?
1. How much advantage do 1.25 inch tubes give over 1 inch tubes? And why?
2. What is the advantage of dual fans over a single fan if both are pushing the same amount of air?
3. Is it better to have a shroud that fully covers the radiator fins or a shroud that does not totally cover the fins?
4. I've heard that the new aluminum radiators are manufactured in a way that really only requires them to be two core. Why is this and why wouldn't three cores be better than two?
To comment on the Griffin Epoxy, they are not epoxied together. Griffin was one of the first aftermarket companies to offer aluminum radiators. Back then the only way to furnace braze aluminum cores together was a process called vacuum brazing. Ford Motor company did this as well. The problem with vacuum brazing was about 80% of the cores would braze leak free, the other 20% had tube-to-header leaks. That's where the tubes (not cores) go into a common end plate. To solve this issue all of the end plates or headers were filled with epoxy to seal up any holes. A better process called CAB (controlled atmosphere brazing) was invented which provides near 100% leak free cores and eliminated the need for epoxy. Every car company today uses CAB as their method of brazing and so does DeWitts. You may read other explanations and/or spin on this topic but this is the real story.
1. Wider tubes provide more tube to fin contact and therefore more heat rejections
2. The number is fans is typically determined by the shape of the radiator more than anything else. Square shapes use a single and rectangles shapes use dual fans. The goal is to have 70% coverage with a minimum of 2000 cfm flow.
3. Again, the goal is to have 70% coverage with a minimum of 2000 cfm flow. I often see people complain that a fan leaves some open space on one side or both. You should remember the coolant flows left to right and all of it goes under the fan.
4. I have a specific blog on this topic. Click HERE
I hope that helps you!
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benjiboy (11-27-2022)
10-05-2018, 11:17 AM
#91
Race Director
Tom, Thank you very much for the response and explaination in lay men's terms as I know nothing about radiators other than water/coolant go through them and they need to be checked occasionally.
I remember back in the 60's and 70's it was, buy a three core, throw it in and you won't have any problems.
Like everything today technology has changed how we think and build a project correctly.
There is much more research and questions to be asked in building something like a Corvette rather than building a 33 hot rod.
I will check out your blog.
By the way, DeWitts web page is much easier to navigate and much more informative than the others which helps old guys like me a lot.
I remember back in the 60's and 70's it was, buy a three core, throw it in and you won't have any problems.
Like everything today technology has changed how we think and build a project correctly.
There is much more research and questions to be asked in building something like a Corvette rather than building a 33 hot rod.
I will check out your blog.
By the way, DeWitts web page is much easier to navigate and much more informative than the others which helps old guys like me a lot.
10-09-2018, 02:20 PM
#92
Question for Bud or any member that have replaced their 1968-1972 with 350 engine, a radiator that did not have the indent/dimple on lower hose connection.
Did the front stabilizer bar interfere with the installation of the new radiator ?
Did the front stabilizer bar interfere with the installation of the new radiator ?
10-09-2018, 09:14 PM
#93
Former Vendor
10-09-2018, 10:12 PM
#94
Safety Car
Yes. The stabilizer bar rubs against the radiator lower hose and outlet on our ‘72 Coupe that has a Champion radiator installed by the previous owner. ( this is currently on the list of needed fixes) There is no dimple as needed.
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shark70 (10-09-2018)
10-09-2018, 11:06 PM
#95
Thank you.
Many years ago, I purchased a kit from Zip that contained everything to update/upgrade the suspension - front and rear. The front stabilizer bar that came in the kit is a 1 1/8" bar which is bigger than the standard one on a 350/300 with standard suspension.
My car has been sitting in my garage for 23 years and I am finally getting off my butt and getting it road worthy.
Took my radiator to a local shop and when he did the pressure test , I had bubbles. Some from the rows. Told me could not be sure that he could get to all of the leaks.
My radiator is a 26x17 4 row core.
I am the third owner and have owned the car since March 1979.
Many years ago, I purchased a kit from Zip that contained everything to update/upgrade the suspension - front and rear. The front stabilizer bar that came in the kit is a 1 1/8" bar which is bigger than the standard one on a 350/300 with standard suspension.
My car has been sitting in my garage for 23 years and I am finally getting off my butt and getting it road worthy.
Took my radiator to a local shop and when he did the pressure test , I had bubbles. Some from the rows. Told me could not be sure that he could get to all of the leaks.
My radiator is a 26x17 4 row core.
I am the third owner and have owned the car since March 1979.
Last edited by shark70; 10-09-2018 at 11:08 PM.
10-14-2018, 08:06 PM
#97
Former Vendor
Found this site while researching copper/brass vs aluminum radiators
Brazed copper/brass radiators anyone.
https://www.copper.org/applications/...novations.html
Brazed copper/brass radiators anyone.
https://www.copper.org/applications/...novations.html
CuproBraze
Last edited by Tom@Dewitt; 10-14-2018 at 08:07 PM.
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shark70 (10-14-2018)
10-14-2018, 08:16 PM
#98
I was trying to find a date on it but there was none on the page.
The history of radiators on the site did mention about these radiators would be used starting in 1995 models.
The history of radiators on the site did mention about these radiators would be used starting in 1995 models.
02-22-2019, 05:49 PM
#99
Ok, so here's my radiator story.
Short version: Bought a Champion on ebay, great radiator, good price, free shipping, cools great, really good decision.
My Vette had overheating "issues." You know how it goes. You're constantly have eyes on the temperature gauge instead of being unconcerned. You GET concerned every time traffic slows down to a crawl. It's no way to own a car, honestly.
So I put the pressure tester on, pump it up, and ...watch the pressure bleed off. Go around and tighten a few loose hose clamps, replace a couple of hoses. Go to replace the t-stat and the threads in the manifold strip. 2 weeks later I've got it helicoiled with a new 180 degree Stant.
(A missing t-stat or 160 degree t-stat is a guarantee a vehicle has been overheating, right alongside the electric fans PO badly installed & miswired.)
Test it again. Still won't hold pressure. This time my buddy spots a barely visible green spot in one corner of the radiator.
Pull the radiator. Take it to a radiator shop in Farmington NM who tells me it's leaking in all four corners, AND the tubes are "weak" "Blows up like a balloon when I put some pressure on it." Solders it up, doesn't charge me much, tells me "fine for a weekend driver, for everyday, go get yourself a new radiator"
This was an OEM brass radiator, Harrison, or look-alike.
Less than a month later cars running hot again and I can see drips in the driveway. I had purchased ANOTHER radiator, off Craigslist for $50 hoping it was in better condition, but....it's out in San Diego, and I'm in Phoenix. So it would need a pass through the radiator shop AND transport. And might not be any better!
I get on the web and see C3 radiators everywhere from $250 to $950. How the hell would anyone know WHICH one to buy?
Say "aw **** it" and order a Champion. Plenty of good comments about them. With shipping included I paid barely over $200 from an eBay vendor. Gotta like that.
Get around to installing it. The straps don't fit like they used to on top, but more than well enough to hold it in place. Overheat issues all gone. Best $200 I've ever spent. BTW the weld quality on mine was outstanding.
If anyone's doing a restoration, and wants my old one, for another pass through the radiator shop, drop me a PM. I might be able to ship it in the box the Champion came in. Or you can pickup in Phoenix.
If anyone wants an original radiator and is in SAN DIEGO, let me know and I'll pass the other one along to you for the $50 I paid for it. Condition unknown. Location: Del Mar. No delivery, no shipping. It's going to the recyclers if no one wants it.
FWIW I see brass, original STYLE radiators for around $450 PLUS shipping on the web. So it's probably worth a gamble and cost of repairs.
There's also getting a radiator re-cored. Basically they solder the end tanks onto a new core. You're looking a minimum of $500 for parts & labor for a re-core job. go on Youtube if you're curious about re-coring. A couple of great videos, despite idiot workers not wearing safety glasses while using torches...
Cheers!
p.s. Installation tip. If you loosen the metal shroud on a '68 top AND bottom you can pull it back and slide the radiator in easily. Up top there are FOUR bolts, look underneath and you can remove the bracket itself and give yourself another 2" of clearance, not scrape up your new fins!
Short version: Bought a Champion on ebay, great radiator, good price, free shipping, cools great, really good decision.
My Vette had overheating "issues." You know how it goes. You're constantly have eyes on the temperature gauge instead of being unconcerned. You GET concerned every time traffic slows down to a crawl. It's no way to own a car, honestly.
So I put the pressure tester on, pump it up, and ...watch the pressure bleed off. Go around and tighten a few loose hose clamps, replace a couple of hoses. Go to replace the t-stat and the threads in the manifold strip. 2 weeks later I've got it helicoiled with a new 180 degree Stant.
(A missing t-stat or 160 degree t-stat is a guarantee a vehicle has been overheating, right alongside the electric fans PO badly installed & miswired.)
Test it again. Still won't hold pressure. This time my buddy spots a barely visible green spot in one corner of the radiator.
Pull the radiator. Take it to a radiator shop in Farmington NM who tells me it's leaking in all four corners, AND the tubes are "weak" "Blows up like a balloon when I put some pressure on it." Solders it up, doesn't charge me much, tells me "fine for a weekend driver, for everyday, go get yourself a new radiator"
This was an OEM brass radiator, Harrison, or look-alike.
Less than a month later cars running hot again and I can see drips in the driveway. I had purchased ANOTHER radiator, off Craigslist for $50 hoping it was in better condition, but....it's out in San Diego, and I'm in Phoenix. So it would need a pass through the radiator shop AND transport. And might not be any better!
I get on the web and see C3 radiators everywhere from $250 to $950. How the hell would anyone know WHICH one to buy?
Say "aw **** it" and order a Champion. Plenty of good comments about them. With shipping included I paid barely over $200 from an eBay vendor. Gotta like that.
Get around to installing it. The straps don't fit like they used to on top, but more than well enough to hold it in place. Overheat issues all gone. Best $200 I've ever spent. BTW the weld quality on mine was outstanding.
If anyone's doing a restoration, and wants my old one, for another pass through the radiator shop, drop me a PM. I might be able to ship it in the box the Champion came in. Or you can pickup in Phoenix.
If anyone wants an original radiator and is in SAN DIEGO, let me know and I'll pass the other one along to you for the $50 I paid for it. Condition unknown. Location: Del Mar. No delivery, no shipping. It's going to the recyclers if no one wants it.
FWIW I see brass, original STYLE radiators for around $450 PLUS shipping on the web. So it's probably worth a gamble and cost of repairs.
There's also getting a radiator re-cored. Basically they solder the end tanks onto a new core. You're looking a minimum of $500 for parts & labor for a re-core job. go on Youtube if you're curious about re-coring. A couple of great videos, despite idiot workers not wearing safety glasses while using torches...
Cheers!
p.s. Installation tip. If you loosen the metal shroud on a '68 top AND bottom you can pull it back and slide the radiator in easily. Up top there are FOUR bolts, look underneath and you can remove the bracket itself and give yourself another 2" of clearance, not scrape up your new fins!
Last edited by wadenelson; 02-22-2019 at 06:01 PM.
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cooper9811 (04-02-2019)
02-22-2019, 06:06 PM
#100
First of all I'd use a laser thermometer and confirm that your gauge is accurate.
Next you need to pressure test your cooling system. It needs to hold pressure for 2-3 hours. No visible movement of the needle. One single drippy hose, heater core, ... and you lose pressure and coolant boils in the head and you're overheating.
I ASSUME you're using 50/50 coolant.
You also need the whole family of foam pieces that forces ram and fan-moved air THROUGH the radiator and not allow it to sneak out and around the edges.
With that even a cheap 2 row radiator should be to cool your machines and keep you under 190.
