Has there been any giant scientific gains in removing broken header bolts?
#21
Le Mans Master
The bolt is NOT rusted in and IS most likely bottomed out. I dont think there will be enough sticking above the head to weld a nut on. I was hoping that some kind of reverse drill bit and a centering tool existed. Im sure that once a drill bit grabs it, it will twist right out...but getting in there is going to suck.
If the bolt is broken off flush with the head or even below, welding the washer on gets good heat to the bolt and easy to get penetration, the nut is welded on to the washer to add more heat and a place to put the tool. If a little weld gets on the head around the bolt, it wont stick, head is cast iron. But if you can't weld then you're stuck with less effective methods.
I'm a heavy equipment mechanic by trade and have removed hundreds of broken bolts from places you wouldn't believe. I made a lot of mistakes before I got good at it, there was no internet or youtube back then.
#22
Melting Slicks
Your safest way to remove the broken bolt is to have a nut welded to the end, and then remove with a socket or wrench. I would be leary of using a right angle drill, as it would be easy to get it off center and damage the head. Also if you are drilling in preparation for using an easy out, and it breaks off, you have more problems.
If you don't have a mig welder, I would contact a tire/muffler shop as they deal with broken bolts on a regular basis. I have used a store in Ithaca called Trombley Tire to remove some broken bolts with good success, and they use the mig welding nut method. They also have a store in Cortland if you can't find a shop closer.
Another alternative would be to have a welder come to your garage. In my area I see ads in the local shopper and in the automotive service section on Craig's list for welders that offer mobile service.
If you don't have a mig welder, I would contact a tire/muffler shop as they deal with broken bolts on a regular basis. I have used a store in Ithaca called Trombley Tire to remove some broken bolts with good success, and they use the mig welding nut method. They also have a store in Cortland if you can't find a shop closer.
Another alternative would be to have a welder come to your garage. In my area I see ads in the local shopper and in the automotive service section on Craig's list for welders that offer mobile service.
#24
Race Director
I got one. Unfortunately...I can only use it with the part off the car. I wish it could be more mobile or hand held...but that is just not going to happen.
Hopefully your method works. I HAVE BEEN there...so I do know. i have to weigh the options...and sometimes...I have no choice but to remove a part. Because IF I can find way that will allow me to get the broken bolt out faster and still do it right...I will go that route. BUT...I also know when to 'throw in the towel'...and begin taking parts off.
DUB
Removing the head will be my LAST resort, absolute last ditch, I cant get anything to work option. Hell, I may pull the engine out of the car to get at the bolt before I rip the head off.
I can clearly understand why you are thinking this. I often times have to 'think' like that also because I am doing this on customers Corvettes. And depending on the year model Corvette I am working on. I can pull an engine faster than doing a head gasket....and then having to tell a customer all of the 'unknowns' that I just found by pulling the head. It can quickly 'snowball' out of control.
Im still looking at the sheared bolt and I think the remnant is going to be flush with the head or just below. Im praying I can knock it loose with a hammer and chisel. After that I will explore drilling it, but Illl need to invest in a right angle drill and some way to make sure I stay perpendicular to the screw. Its all going to come down to how much room I have in the engine bay. I may even unbolt the drivers side motor mount to get it up an extra inch or two.
I can clearly understand why you are thinking this. I often times have to 'think' like that also because I am doing this on customers Corvettes. And depending on the year model Corvette I am working on. I can pull an engine faster than doing a head gasket....and then having to tell a customer all of the 'unknowns' that I just found by pulling the head. It can quickly 'snowball' out of control.
Im still looking at the sheared bolt and I think the remnant is going to be flush with the head or just below. Im praying I can knock it loose with a hammer and chisel. After that I will explore drilling it, but Illl need to invest in a right angle drill and some way to make sure I stay perpendicular to the screw. Its all going to come down to how much room I have in the engine bay. I may even unbolt the drivers side motor mount to get it up an extra inch or two.
DUB
#25
Drifting
You might try this product from Loctit it freezes the bolt and releases the rust
http://www.na.henkel-adhesives.com/a...=8797940809729
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/det...rItem=74233156
http://www.na.henkel-adhesives.com/a...=8797940809729
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/det...rItem=74233156
#26
Race Director
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 19,446
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13, '15- '16-'17-'18-'19, '21
Did not see any mention of what material the heads are made of.....iron or aluminum.
No mention that I recall of how long the bolt was in the head either.
Quick reminder...if steel bolt and aluminum head make sure to use anti-seize on the threads.
I'd also go with ARP studs if they will fit.
IMHO
Bman (Dennis)
No mention that I recall of how long the bolt was in the head either.
Quick reminder...if steel bolt and aluminum head make sure to use anti-seize on the threads.
I'd also go with ARP studs if they will fit.
IMHO
Bman (Dennis)
#28
Drifting
Thread Starter
The bolt is snapped about 1/16th below the head. I have a cheap HF gasless MIG welder that Im somewhat proficient with, but I don't understand how I can attempt to weld to this bolt without the weld flowing onto and into the bolt threads?
Im planning on making a centering jig and drilling it in successfully larger sizes until it spins out.
Im planning on making a centering jig and drilling it in successfully larger sizes until it spins out.
#29
Race Director
NOT that what I going to write will help you...but it has worked for me.
I have been in this situation..and took my Dremel tool and cleaned the broken end of the bolt so it is clean to weld on....because normally it has been broken for a long time and rusted or crap has gotten on the end of it.
I then take my oxy/acetylene torch and pre-heat JUST the bolt....so I get a good pin point on my torch and get the bolt hot...so I know when I go and use my MIG welder...the weld will usually take and penetrate a bit better than if I try to weld it with the bolt being cold. I usually do a 1/2 second or 3/4 second blast with my welder...which as you know depends on your wire speed and heat range you have set it at. But I get the first weld to stick good..and then when it goes off of being cherry red...I weld on that first weld spot again...and I keep doing that until I actually build out a small shaft that I can either clamp a set of Vise-grips on or weld something onto that.
THEN...it is hoping that my FIRST WELD took good...and I begin the process of slowly rocking my pliers back and forth and hope I can get the bolt to begin to move. Because if I can get it to move a 'frog hair' ..I know I WON and I can get it out.
I will also often times try to use some wax so it can wick into the threaded area...depending on the angle I am working on.
DUB
I have been in this situation..and took my Dremel tool and cleaned the broken end of the bolt so it is clean to weld on....because normally it has been broken for a long time and rusted or crap has gotten on the end of it.
I then take my oxy/acetylene torch and pre-heat JUST the bolt....so I get a good pin point on my torch and get the bolt hot...so I know when I go and use my MIG welder...the weld will usually take and penetrate a bit better than if I try to weld it with the bolt being cold. I usually do a 1/2 second or 3/4 second blast with my welder...which as you know depends on your wire speed and heat range you have set it at. But I get the first weld to stick good..and then when it goes off of being cherry red...I weld on that first weld spot again...and I keep doing that until I actually build out a small shaft that I can either clamp a set of Vise-grips on or weld something onto that.
THEN...it is hoping that my FIRST WELD took good...and I begin the process of slowly rocking my pliers back and forth and hope I can get the bolt to begin to move. Because if I can get it to move a 'frog hair' ..I know I WON and I can get it out.
I will also often times try to use some wax so it can wick into the threaded area...depending on the angle I am working on.
DUB
#30
I faced a very similar dilemma just this week, albeit it during an attempt to install headers on a 1979 that had not been touched since new. All but one original manifold bolt came out without a hitch. Unfortunately one broke off flush. I thought about pulling the head., but decided to drill with it on. Big mistake! Not much room in there and I could have swore I center punched the stud dead in the center on the second attempt, but alas I had not! Some mistakes you can't back up from! I'm now buying new heads, which was planned down the road, just not now. Live and learn. Sometimes shortcuts work out, mostly they don't. Long and short of this diatribe...take the head off. chances of success increase dramatically in my now humble opinion! I wish you success. If anyone has head recommendations, I'm all ears.
#31
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Rescue Rogers (10-09-2016)
#33
Safety Car
The reverse drill bit only works if the bolt is not tight by rust or being bottomed out. In that case it works the same as a regular bit, just drills out metal. If the bolt is bottomed out, then trying to use an easy out will likely not end well either. If I were doing it, I would remove the header and weld a washer to the bolt, then weld a nut to the washer, put a box end wrench on it and gently try to loosen it. If the washer and nut breaks off, weld on another set, it will eventually come out.
Left hand bit set, a 90 degree drill and center punch. Punch, go slow in left hand direction. If the gods choose to smile on you today...
Example. http://www.irwin.com/tools/drill-bit...drill-bit-sets
Example. http://www.irwin.com/tools/drill-bit...drill-bit-sets
Im a little embarrassed to admit this....as explained earlier, I had to make a spacer to fit the alternator bracket to the head. I didn't have the proper length bolt around so I filed one down. It must have bottomed against the hole and I just kept twisting. To make matters worse, there was no 'grading' marks on the bolt head, so it was probably sub standard to begin with.
My biggest worry is actually getting in there to work. Not much room at all, and I doubt I can even get a center punch in there.
My biggest worry is actually getting in there to work. Not much room at all, and I doubt I can even get a center punch in there.
I've always had this work for me even with rusted in bolts. The thing to use is a pneumatic drill as they are a lot smaller, center punch the shank if you can, and start drilling slowly and be ready for it to grab. If you go slow and easy you won't break the bit, if it don't work, you needed a hole drilled in it any how. Good luck.
Last edited by bluedawg; 10-12-2016 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Shitty spelling, bad coffee and I suck at typing on my phone while driving...