VIN missing on '78 pace car engine block
02-19-2017, 03:21 PM
#21
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Westminster Maryland
Posts: 30,173
Likes: 0
Received 2,878 Likes
on
2,515 Posts
Hi Bc,
"What happened if the engine blew after installation before delivery. Would it be replaced at factory and what would be stamped on the pad?"
If the engine failed at St.Louis I believe the car was taken to "heavy repair". The engine was repaired or replaced.
When the car left St.Louis the engine very likely DIDN'T have a blank pad.
The blank pad you show makes it impossible to know when this engine was assembled and in what configuration, and also what vehicle it was first installed in.
If the engine failed at the dealer before delivery it would have been repaired or replaced…. again it would typically have some information on the pad. In earlier years the engines that were replaced under warranty were known as CE engines. CE standing for 'Chevrolet Engineering'. A CE engine typically had a CE stamped in the pad along with some other idenyfing stamped digits.
As has been said, engines with blank pads that are in cars often have been rebuilt and 'decked' which typically removes enough of the surface of the block to also remove the stamped information.
Regards,
Alan
I'd be interested in seeing a couple of photos of the overall engine compartment from both sides and some interior photos especially of the driver's side of the interior… seat, door panel, carpet, pedal pads.
"What happened if the engine blew after installation before delivery. Would it be replaced at factory and what would be stamped on the pad?"
If the engine failed at St.Louis I believe the car was taken to "heavy repair". The engine was repaired or replaced.
When the car left St.Louis the engine very likely DIDN'T have a blank pad.
The blank pad you show makes it impossible to know when this engine was assembled and in what configuration, and also what vehicle it was first installed in.
If the engine failed at the dealer before delivery it would have been repaired or replaced…. again it would typically have some information on the pad. In earlier years the engines that were replaced under warranty were known as CE engines. CE standing for 'Chevrolet Engineering'. A CE engine typically had a CE stamped in the pad along with some other idenyfing stamped digits.
As has been said, engines with blank pads that are in cars often have been rebuilt and 'decked' which typically removes enough of the surface of the block to also remove the stamped information.
Regards,
Alan
I'd be interested in seeing a couple of photos of the overall engine compartment from both sides and some interior photos especially of the driver's side of the interior… seat, door panel, carpet, pedal pads.
Last edited by Alan 71; 02-19-2017 at 03:35 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Bigchucker (02-19-2017)
02-19-2017, 04:17 PM
#22
Safety Car
Hi Bc,
If the engine failed at St.Louis I believe the car was taken to "heavy repair". The engine was repaired or replaced.
When the car left St.Louis the engine very likely DIDN'T have a blank pad.
The blank pad you show makes it impossible to know when this engine was assembled and in what configuration, and also what vehicle it was first installed in.
If the engine failed at the dealer before delivery it would have been repaired or replaced…. again it would typically have some information on the pad. In earlier years the engines that were replaced under warranty were known as CE engines. CE standing for 'Chevrolet Engineering'. A CE engine typically had a CE stamped in the pad along with some other idenyfing stamped digits.
As has been said, engines with blank pads that are in cars often have been rebuilt and 'decked' which typically removes enough of the surface of the block to also remove the stamped information.
Regards,
Alan
I'd be interested in seeing a couple of photos of the overall engine compartment from both sides and some interior photos especially of the driver's side of the interior… seat, door panel, carpet, pedal pads.
"What happened if the engine blew after installation before delivery. Would it be replaced at factory and what would be stamped on the pad?"
When the car left St.Louis the engine very likely DIDN'T have a blank pad.
The blank pad you show makes it impossible to know when this engine was assembled and in what configuration, and also what vehicle it was first installed in.
If the engine failed at the dealer before delivery it would have been repaired or replaced…. again it would typically have some information on the pad. In earlier years the engines that were replaced under warranty were known as CE engines. CE standing for 'Chevrolet Engineering'. A CE engine typically had a CE stamped in the pad along with some other idenyfing stamped digits.
As has been said, engines with blank pads that are in cars often have been rebuilt and 'decked' which typically removes enough of the surface of the block to also remove the stamped information.
Regards,
Alan
I'd be interested in seeing a couple of photos of the overall engine compartment from both sides and some interior photos especially of the driver's side of the interior… seat, door panel, carpet, pedal pads.
Last edited by hunt4cleanair; 02-19-2017 at 04:18 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Bigchucker (02-20-2017)
02-19-2017, 04:59 PM
#23
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Westminster Maryland
Posts: 30,173
Likes: 0
Received 2,878 Likes
on
2,515 Posts
Hi h4ca,
I agree.
My post was an attempt to help Bc understand how engines got into cars and that they didn't leave StLouis with blank pads.
I'm afraid it comes down to two possibilities…. it's the original engine and it was decked or it's a replacement engine.
Some photos may well indicate if this is a 15,000 mile car.
Regards,
Alan
I agree.
My post was an attempt to help Bc understand how engines got into cars and that they didn't leave StLouis with blank pads.
I'm afraid it comes down to two possibilities…. it's the original engine and it was decked or it's a replacement engine.
Some photos may well indicate if this is a 15,000 mile car.
Regards,
Alan
The following users liked this post:
Bigchucker (02-20-2017)
02-19-2017, 06:05 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
When I google the casting number it came up
77-79 Pass-Chevelle,Camaro, Nova,Monte Carlo, Lt truck.
The 79 NCRS Judging manual however does state that this casting was used in late 79 Corvettes. Not in 78 so I don't think GMH is correct.
Curious if you looked on the driver's side rear of the block to see if the casting date is there?
Think you will need to get to the pad and clean more and take another look. Good luck.
77-79 Pass-Chevelle,Camaro, Nova,Monte Carlo, Lt truck.
The 79 NCRS Judging manual however does state that this casting was used in late 79 Corvettes. Not in 78 so I don't think GMH is correct.
Curious if you looked on the driver's side rear of the block to see if the casting date is there?
Think you will need to get to the pad and clean more and take another look. Good luck.
02-20-2017, 07:41 AM
#25
Team Owner
Member Since: Jun 2000
Location: Southbound
Posts: 38,928
Likes: 0
Received 1,468 Likes
on
1,247 Posts
Cruise-In II Veteran
FWIW: the odds of a 78 Corvette engine not having an engine factory stamp from Flint AND managing to leave St. Louis without a VIN derivative stamp would be extremely high.
IMHO the block is not original and has been replaced.
IMHO the block is not original and has been replaced.
The following users liked this post:
Bigchucker (02-20-2017)
02-20-2017, 01:15 PM
#26
Melting Slicks
Hi Bc,
"What happened if the engine blew after installation before delivery. Would it be replaced at factory and what would be stamped on the pad?"
If the engine failed at St.Louis I believe the car was taken to "heavy repair". The engine was repaired or replaced.
When the car left St.Louis the engine very likely DIDN'T have a blank pad.
The blank pad you show makes it impossible to know when this engine was assembled and in what configuration, and also what vehicle it was first installed in.
If the engine failed at the dealer before delivery it would have been repaired or replaced…. again it would typically have some information on the pad. In earlier years the engines that were replaced under warranty were known as CE engines. CE standing for 'Chevrolet Engineering'. A CE engine typically had a CE stamped in the pad along with some other idenyfing stamped digits.
As has been said, engines with blank pads that are in cars often have been rebuilt and 'decked' which typically removes enough of the surface of the block to also remove the stamped information.
Regards,
Alan
I'd be interested in seeing a couple of photos of the overall engine compartment from both sides and some interior photos especially of the driver's side of the interior… seat, door panel, carpet, pedal pads.
"What happened if the engine blew after installation before delivery. Would it be replaced at factory and what would be stamped on the pad?"
If the engine failed at St.Louis I believe the car was taken to "heavy repair". The engine was repaired or replaced.
When the car left St.Louis the engine very likely DIDN'T have a blank pad.
The blank pad you show makes it impossible to know when this engine was assembled and in what configuration, and also what vehicle it was first installed in.
If the engine failed at the dealer before delivery it would have been repaired or replaced…. again it would typically have some information on the pad. In earlier years the engines that were replaced under warranty were known as CE engines. CE standing for 'Chevrolet Engineering'. A CE engine typically had a CE stamped in the pad along with some other idenyfing stamped digits.
As has been said, engines with blank pads that are in cars often have been rebuilt and 'decked' which typically removes enough of the surface of the block to also remove the stamped information.
Regards,
Alan
I'd be interested in seeing a couple of photos of the overall engine compartment from both sides and some interior photos especially of the driver's side of the interior… seat, door panel, carpet, pedal pads.
If the engine failed under warranty and was replaced sometime n 1979, the timeline and the casting number on the block would make sense.
Last edited by drwet; 02-20-2017 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Kant spel
The following users liked this post:
Bigchucker (02-20-2017)
02-20-2017, 07:47 PM
#29
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
Member Since: Feb 2017
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Posts: 17
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks like I may not ever know exactly what happened. But, looking at the picture I took of the casting date code can anyone tell me: why is it not the correct 4 digit code? Am I looking at the wrong spot...picture is just behind and to passenger side.
02-21-2017, 07:58 AM
#30
Melting Slicks
You didn't respond to whether you checked the driver's side. Perhaps just a 71 could be a production run number.
http://www.mortec.com/location.htm
http://www.mortec.com/location.htm
02-21-2017, 08:45 AM
#31
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Westminster Maryland
Posts: 30,173
Likes: 0
Received 2,878 Likes
on
2,515 Posts
Hi Bc,
I think a couple of photos of the engine compartment would help determine whats going on with this car.
Often, (but not always), a car with only 15,000 on it has a certain 'look' about it. It would be helpful to know if in fact it appears to be a 15,000 mile car.
???
Regards,
Alan
Remember: for the pad to be blank 2 separate things had to happen…. first, the engine needed to leave the Flint Engine Plant without the Identification stamp, and then, ALSO leave the St.Louis plant without the vin derivative stamp. Really Not Likely!
I think a couple of photos of the engine compartment would help determine whats going on with this car.
Often, (but not always), a car with only 15,000 on it has a certain 'look' about it. It would be helpful to know if in fact it appears to be a 15,000 mile car.
???
Regards,
Alan
Remember: for the pad to be blank 2 separate things had to happen…. first, the engine needed to leave the Flint Engine Plant without the Identification stamp, and then, ALSO leave the St.Louis plant without the vin derivative stamp. Really Not Likely!
02-21-2017, 07:03 PM
#32
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
Member Since: Feb 2017
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Posts: 17
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like I said, the engine is very clean and other than the chromed air cleaner lid and brake master cylinder lid everything appears correct and literally untouched. No sign of rust anywhere. Carb, a/c, and alternator are all correct #'s. Rest of car is the same, I believe it is a 15000 mile car.
This is why I asked the question about the blank VIN #???
This is why I asked the question about the blank VIN #???
02-21-2017, 08:31 PM
#33
Le Mans Master
I would say that the engine is not original if there are no block stamps....Highly unlikely OEM. The engine looks correct but too clean for a 40 year old car..Someone cleaned under the hood meticulously... Everything looks brand new...On a 40 year old car. When I rebuilt my l-82 in 2014, the block date code, matched the code on the 4 speed tranny, which matched the VIN #... Everything matched.
02-21-2017, 09:56 PM
#34
Le Mans Master
Something else to check...When was the car built?..On door sticker. My 78 was built in Oct 77...Date stamp on engine is v1005cmr..Oct 10. Check tranny codes against VIN.
Lastly, I bought my 78 L-82 4 speed in may 1983 with 25,000 on the car but signs were that they were hard miles. There was orange rtv on the front of the intake indicating it had been off the car prior to may 83. Upon rebuilding the engine in spring 2014, I found stamped connecting rods indicating the motor had been apart prior to may 83, pistons with missing top rings, some pistons with broken rings...Clearly the motor had been apart prior to 1983. These motors did not hold up well in the late 70's to any type of abuse....
Lastly, I bought my 78 L-82 4 speed in may 1983 with 25,000 on the car but signs were that they were hard miles. There was orange rtv on the front of the intake indicating it had been off the car prior to may 83. Upon rebuilding the engine in spring 2014, I found stamped connecting rods indicating the motor had been apart prior to may 83, pistons with missing top rings, some pistons with broken rings...Clearly the motor had been apart prior to 1983. These motors did not hold up well in the late 70's to any type of abuse....
Last edited by jb78L-82; 02-21-2017 at 10:03 PM.
02-22-2017, 04:27 AM
#35
Safety Car
- Engine compartment too clean and tidy!
- Master cylinder has been replaced
- Hoses toward left rear are too shiny
- The plastic check valve coming out of the EFE actuator hose...is an add-on item
- EGR vacuum hose routed through air cleaner is not correct...goes to EGR TVS switch!
- Likewise, air cleaner hoses from both snorkels route to carb port located at the lower rear of the carb
- Looks like the PVC 775 valve replaced
- The alloy items (A.I.R. pump, alternator) look painted/blasted but awful nice!
How does the engine run? Looks like your vacuum hose routing are not correct. Wilcox has a nice schematic that shows the correct routing of those hoses! Gives the impression that robust work had taken place from intake manifold and up.
Take the air cleaner off and take a photo of the driver's side of the carb with GM number and date code. Should reconcile with broadcast code for an L82 M38 power team configuration.
Last edited by hunt4cleanair; 02-22-2017 at 04:49 AM.
02-22-2017, 09:06 AM
#36
Team Owner
Member Since: Jun 2000
Location: Southbound
Posts: 38,928
Likes: 0
Received 1,468 Likes
on
1,247 Posts
Cruise-In II Veteran
Something else to check...When was the car built?..On door sticker. My 78 was built in Oct 77...Date stamp on engine is v1005cmr..Oct 10. Check tranny codes against VIN.
Lastly, I bought my 78 L-82 4 speed in may 1983 with 25,000 on the car but signs were that they were hard miles. There was orange rtv on the front of the intake indicating it had been off the car prior to may 83. Upon rebuilding the engine in spring 2014, I found stamped connecting rods indicating the motor had been apart prior to may 83, pistons with missing top rings, some pistons with broken rings...Clearly the motor had been apart prior to 1983. These motors did not hold up well in the late 70's to any type of abuse....
Lastly, I bought my 78 L-82 4 speed in may 1983 with 25,000 on the car but signs were that they were hard miles. There was orange rtv on the front of the intake indicating it had been off the car prior to may 83. Upon rebuilding the engine in spring 2014, I found stamped connecting rods indicating the motor had been apart prior to may 83, pistons with missing top rings, some pistons with broken rings...Clearly the motor had been apart prior to 1983. These motors did not hold up well in the late 70's to any type of abuse....
02-22-2017, 12:53 PM
#38
Safety Car
No numbers = a red flag the block has been decked,
removing any authentication if engine is original or not.
bottom line, ... as a informed buyer this would be viewed as non-matching numbers car.
removing any authentication if engine is original or not.
bottom line, ... as a informed buyer this would be viewed as non-matching numbers car.
02-22-2017, 01:28 PM
#39
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Westminster Maryland
Posts: 30,173
Likes: 0
Received 2,878 Likes
on
2,515 Posts
Hi Bc,
Thanks for posting the photos.
I agree that the engine compartment has a 'restored' look to it, not really an 'untouched' look.
I think someone with some Bowtie judging experience could likely take a look at things like the engine mounts, bell housing/transmission fasteners, and ancillary brackets and their fasteners, and get a pretty good sense of whether this engine has been out of this car or not.
Still an interesting puzzle though.
Regards,
Alan
Thanks for posting the photos.
I agree that the engine compartment has a 'restored' look to it, not really an 'untouched' look.
I think someone with some Bowtie judging experience could likely take a look at things like the engine mounts, bell housing/transmission fasteners, and ancillary brackets and their fasteners, and get a pretty good sense of whether this engine has been out of this car or not.
Still an interesting puzzle though.
Regards,
Alan
02-23-2017, 02:46 PM
#40
Team Owner
When I first met my wife, in late December of 1977, she had just placed an order for a new '78. Since the order went through a "smaller" Chevy dealer, with a limited allotment of Corvettes, her order was pushed back, and the car didn't arrive at the dealer until July of 1978.
She was upset, saying that in a couple of months, the car will be "a year old". She didn't take the car but the dealer understood her point, and got her one of the first '79s.
