resdoggie

You keep posting quotes that agree with what I'm saying from what has been proven time and time again. If a driver is skilled enough as you are saying can stop a car in less distance or control a vehicle in turns better without abs or traction control, then why do F1 cars have these systems for their drivers? Obviously, from what you are posting, they would't need it. So why do F1 teams spend untold $$$$$$ to develop these sophisticated traction control systems when the drivers can do without? Answer: Because these drivers, the best on the planet, need them to reduce lap times. Hence. win races.

Jason Staley

F1 cars do not have ABS or traction control. They lock up their tires all the time trying to out break one another. No traction control at start either. They bog their cars and light up the tires routinely.

At one point in history they did have these electronics, but it was taken away years ago. It hasn't hurt lap times at all.

To the OP's original question ....

I haven't seen many attempts at getting this right due the complexity of the systems. However, there is a mechanical version that helps prevent rear brake lock up under panic stops. It is made by DPI.



http://www.dpiracingproducts.com/loc...ke-system-lbs/

jb78L-82

Formula 1 drivers do NOT have ABS systems on their cars, nor do they have traction control systems....

resdoggie

Then I stand corrected because I recall and was referring to that point in history when the F1 cars had this. So I wasn't wrong, just out of date. But the fact is, cars stop quicker in 60-0 distance with abs. I really can't understand why some argue this. As for cornering and directional stability, I don't care about that aspect in the context of this discussion. The OP asked about abs for a reason. I assumed he was concerned about stopping distance only. Maybe not. I would like one of our pilot forum members to chime in also about why abs is installed on aircraft. I have never seen a chicane on a runway so not sure why they need directional stability. Don't flaps and **** do this?

OldCarBum

Getting back to the OP's original post: The OEM brake systems in our C3 corvettes were one of the best at the time they were engineered and they are still one of the best systems in vehicles today. Check all the components in the system to ensure everything is working properly, flush the system, replace the fluid with new and upgrade the pads. There are several aftermarket kits manufactured to upgrade to larger diameter rotors, six or eight piston calipers, improved master cylinders and many other upgrades if you feel you want better than the OEM system. Do your research and if you truly want ABS, then design the system, and post a thread on the forum so others might benefit from your experience if they want to go that way. Tires do make a great improvement in stopping distance and avoiding a hazard, however, the two things that everyone forgets and which make the greatest difference in stopping and control of the vehicle is the driver's experience and their reaction time. If you feel you want better control in emergency conditions, take a professional driving course. Good luck and if you go ABS keep us informed.

I can't wait until someone asks about installing driver and passenger side air bags in a C3. LOL

BLUE1972

Tires and brake pad material can make a huge difference.

I would suggest quality brake pads and slotted rotors. Be aware that some pads require heat to start working effectively.

There are numerous brake sites, the EBC site does list pads by how aggressive they are. Some "parts" store pads are junk,

I switched my 1980 truck to EBC pads and rotors - the difference was amazing. It also resulted in a more predictable lock up.

It is possible to convert to a C4 suspension, the cost is not cheep.

TheSkunkWorks

Well, yes and no. For the common denominator for which such systems are designed, likely almost 100% of the time, yes. However, many an astute driver who is on their game can indeed hold their own against an ABS system. Case in point: I've seen this proven on multiple occasions during Skip Barber's advance driving schools, where one of the exercises was for each driver to establish a minimum braking distance from a given speed with ABS on, then to repeat the process with the system turned off. A good number of drivers routinely matched and/or out-performed the ABS. And these were BMW 5-series cars at the time.

A different issue with ABS, and one which I believe is responsible for so many enthusiasts smacking the Armco at the 'ring all of the time, IMHO there are times when it is actually more desirable to lock up and commit one's self to skidding in a specific direction than to dart all over creation until collision(s) finally bring things to a halt. My $.02, YMMV.


TSW

terrys6t8roadster

Real world experiences. 24 hours at Daytona 2017 the Lemans class car cannot have ABS. It also rained a lot during the race.
During a HPDE event at Road America, I took me 7 laps to catch and pass a 2008 C6. He was faster in the straights, but I caught him in braking and cornering. And I got it all on my GOPRO.
But them again, at the Milw Mile at an SCCA event I was up against a C4 that just outclassed me. I was faster down the straight but during the brake zone and cornering he blew me away. His laps were just under 2 seconds faster than me on a 1.8 mi track. He had ABS. T

Revi

To begin with, brakes aren't the primary stopping device on large aircraft. Thrust reversers are used to slow the plane down from touchdown speed to approx. 50kts or so. Then braking is used to slow to taxi speed. (In theory you could use the T/R's until stopped and never touch the brakes, but that will cause engine overheat/other issues.)
It's very rare that you will just jump on the brakes in a panic situation, a RTO (Rejected TakeOff) would be one, but you would still deploy the thrust reversers as well.

When you're sitting in the front end of a 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, etc. and apply the brakes aggressively, you can't tell when one of the 4, 8, 12 or 16 wheels with brakes is locking up. You're too far detached from the landing gear to use "feel". ABS helps prevent brake overheat and tire flat spotting.
Remember the landing gear is 10', 20', 30' apart from one another, one side of the plane may have good traction with the runway while the other side may be on ice, water, etc.. ABS helps with keeping the wheels go round and applying the proper amount of brake per tire, per side, per condition, that each tire is experiencing.

Realistically, stopping an aircraft from 60mph to 0mph isn't a thing like it is with cars.

AirBusPilot

Actually, the wheel braking system IS the primary stopping system on aircraft. Thrust reverse helps, but is in no way as powerful as the actual wheel brakes.

As a note, we use both (thrust reverse and wheel braking) on every landing. On the Airbus, we have three automatic braking levels, plus you can chose to not use those and apply manual braking (typically very long runways and no need to stop quickly).

Low level is nearly worthless, medium is great for short runways, and max is for emergency use only. Max is also set on every take off, in case a reject take off is necessary.

ABS is as you described. On smaller general aviation aircraft, most don't have ABS and if you're not careful you can lock the brakes and ruin your tires, including blowing them out. You simply cannot feel what the tires are doing until it's too late. ABS, on aircraft at least, is far superior.

Richard454

There is not a 'kit' out there- maybe liability reasons...

But if you wanted to do it- here's the 'least' complicated way- the C4 system as it has a standalone computer-through I'm thinking mid-90s before OBDII.

Adding the sensor to each wheel - would take some work...unless you went with the c4 suspension- but then the original brakes are a step back.

So- to answer your question- It can be done.....



pump/computer



[

SwampeastMike

A stand-alone ABS system is DEFINITELY what you need but I have great doubts that the hub/bearing capsules (especially the rear) will be compatible with a C3. The #1 requirement for an ABS system is highly accurate and reliable wheel speed sensors.

540 vette

A C3 Corvette is what it is. Before trying to adapt an ABS system to your car and spend thousands why no try to just upgrade your braking system for that money. Or go buy a newer Vette.

7T1vette

So a C4 ABS system might do the trick...IF the wheel bearings / sensors could be adapted. I doubt anyone would go to the trouble of doing that. It might be simpler to put a C3 body on a C4 chassis.

Taijutsu

I figured that out after the first few posts. I was hoping the aftermarket had an ABS upgrade for the brakes on an older vehicle.
I can see that is not happening just yet.
Thanks for the info.

R