Is it worth it just to do 90/10 shocks?
04-18-2017, 10:07 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Is it worth it just to do 90/10 shocks?
I have been researching a lot of old posts on here regarding front drag springs and the stuff you guys have gone though. It seems like going the Moroso front drag springs and having to cut them to get desired ride height is common. I haven't seen any posts where there was a straight spring replacement that works.
I just fabed up the rear harness bar for my shoulder harness this past weekend and will get it welded up this coming weekend. After that I just need to get a base setting on the 4-link then hit the track.
I am wondering is it worth just changing the font shocks to set of 90/10's or should I also do springs at the same time? I currently have stock BB springs up front with standard Bilstien shocks. I may go coil overs in the front and tubular control arms for weight savings at some point but not for the next year at least. I don't know how much weight is on the nose of the car but its not much. No air or any comfy goodies, aluminum headed small block with a 4speed. The car was 2950 before the aluminum pulleys, flywheel and calipers so shes lost a few pounds. Also before the axle swap. I don't know if the Moser rear is heavier or lighter than the stock IRS???
so is it worth just the shocks or should I do the springs at the same time?
I just fabed up the rear harness bar for my shoulder harness this past weekend and will get it welded up this coming weekend. After that I just need to get a base setting on the 4-link then hit the track.
I am wondering is it worth just changing the font shocks to set of 90/10's or should I also do springs at the same time? I currently have stock BB springs up front with standard Bilstien shocks. I may go coil overs in the front and tubular control arms for weight savings at some point but not for the next year at least. I don't know how much weight is on the nose of the car but its not much. No air or any comfy goodies, aluminum headed small block with a 4speed. The car was 2950 before the aluminum pulleys, flywheel and calipers so shes lost a few pounds. Also before the axle swap. I don't know if the Moser rear is heavier or lighter than the stock IRS???
so is it worth just the shocks or should I do the springs at the same time?
04-18-2017, 11:11 AM
#2
Team Owner
90/10's are made to hold the front end up after launching at a drag strip. They have to be used in conjunction with longer stock type springs to get the front end up for weight transfer to the rear wheels.
But in my opinion only desirable if you are having traction problems. You need to sort everything out before going to 90/10's
You need to do some after the water box burn outs on a sticky track and stop and have somebody inspect how much of each tire is being used and get your rear air pressure low enough to use the total width of the tread. Because of body TQ roll you need up to a 1/2 pound more air in right slick. I don't know about drag radials, it would be a couple of pounds or something difference because of the TQ roll.
You want a small amount of wheel spin. That saves drive lines, ujoints, axles......... If you still have excessive wheel spin lower the launch rpm and then look at 90/10 shocks for more weight x-fer!
But in my opinion only desirable if you are having traction problems. You need to sort everything out before going to 90/10's
You need to do some after the water box burn outs on a sticky track and stop and have somebody inspect how much of each tire is being used and get your rear air pressure low enough to use the total width of the tread. Because of body TQ roll you need up to a 1/2 pound more air in right slick. I don't know about drag radials, it would be a couple of pounds or something difference because of the TQ roll.
You want a small amount of wheel spin. That saves drive lines, ujoints, axles......... If you still have excessive wheel spin lower the launch rpm and then look at 90/10 shocks for more weight x-fer!
04-18-2017, 01:36 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
90/10's are made to hold the front end up after launching at a drag strip. They have to be used in conjunction with longer stock type springs to get the front end up for weight transfer to the rear wheels.
But in my opinion only desirable if you are having traction problems. You need to sort everything out before going to 90/10's
You need to do some after the water box burn outs on a sticky track and stop and have somebody inspect how much of each tire is being used and get your rear air pressure low enough to use the total width of the tread. Because of body TQ roll you need up to a 1/2 pound more air in right slick. I don't know about drag radials, it would be a couple of pounds or something difference because of the TQ roll.
You want a small amount of wheel spin. That saves drive lines, ujoints, axles......... If you still have excessive wheel spin lower the launch rpm and then look at 90/10 shocks for more weight x-fer!
But in my opinion only desirable if you are having traction problems. You need to sort everything out before going to 90/10's
You need to do some after the water box burn outs on a sticky track and stop and have somebody inspect how much of each tire is being used and get your rear air pressure low enough to use the total width of the tread. Because of body TQ roll you need up to a 1/2 pound more air in right slick. I don't know about drag radials, it would be a couple of pounds or something difference because of the TQ roll.
You want a small amount of wheel spin. That saves drive lines, ujoints, axles......... If you still have excessive wheel spin lower the launch rpm and then look at 90/10 shocks for more weight x-fer!
So in your opinion you don't feel the shocks would do anything because the springs are too stiff? This could be a problem now as its so stiff I am not getting much weight transfer to begin with. I am still playing with the spring rates in the coil overs in the rear. At the moment she is too stiff and I have zero traction. I have not done a ton of playing with the link setup yest but intend to do so this weekend. I plan to try and get the car as close to 100% Antisquat as possible, make some hits then adjust from there.
The point I am at now I am just wondering about the front since it does not transfer much at all. I wonder if I am wasting my time trying to make it hook by just adjusting the rear. The tricky part is I can only make real adjustments at the track and some tracks are so busy you dont get many passes. It could take some time getting it setup.
04-18-2017, 02:19 PM
#4
Team Owner
The front limit factor is generally the shocks extended length and or steering links bottoming out. From the static position measure how high you nose is. Then jack the middle front cross member of the car until your tires almost leave the ground. That height is your max weight x-fer.
I've driven my dragster and over 1000 hp Camaros down the 1/4 mile and getting the tires to hook up was not a problem. I've always used slicks even on my Vettes for drag racing. I personally never used 90/10's because you see cars that can get the front tires in the air and when they come down the front bounces a few times. I would rather have more control over the car going down the track.
Slicks need a big water box burn out to get heat in the tires. My vette i did a second gear burn out. On the hit in the water with my line lock set the speedo would go up to 90 mph and I would hold it to a count of 4 and then release the line lock and as the car starts to move forward let off the gas and then drive up to the staging light.
I usually let the other person burn out first and goof around before I started my burn out to have the max heat still in the tires when we are both stagged
I've driven my dragster and over 1000 hp Camaros down the 1/4 mile and getting the tires to hook up was not a problem. I've always used slicks even on my Vettes for drag racing. I personally never used 90/10's because you see cars that can get the front tires in the air and when they come down the front bounces a few times. I would rather have more control over the car going down the track.
Slicks need a big water box burn out to get heat in the tires. My vette i did a second gear burn out. On the hit in the water with my line lock set the speedo would go up to 90 mph and I would hold it to a count of 4 and then release the line lock and as the car starts to move forward let off the gas and then drive up to the staging light.
I usually let the other person burn out first and goof around before I started my burn out to have the max heat still in the tires when we are both stagged
Last edited by gkull; 04-18-2017 at 02:39 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Amelio (04-18-2017)
04-18-2017, 03:26 PM
#5
Race Director
Member Since: Jan 2000
Location: Corsicana, Tx
Posts: 12,603
Received 1,874 Likes
on
912 Posts
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
C2 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
2017 C2 of Year Finalist
Having a four link is a lot different tha IRS. You can dial in what you need without a lot of lift. I was just talking to a fellow with a 4 link under his Vette. Runs 1.20s in 60s. He uses a 400 lb spring in the front. Your stock big block springs aren't going to transfer a lot. Some small block springs are going to be borderline with all the weight you've pulled. Some good double adjustable will allow you to launch and control compression afterwards.
90/10s alone will make a big difference. I ran some short 550 lb springs at one time and with 90/10s they lifted pretty good. My Morosos are around 210 lb I think but very long. So lots of compressed energy. My Viking coilovers use 350 lb springs and actually were more consistent in 60's. Not a real fair comparison because clutch was slipping a lot more then too so it came out smoother.
As George said. You're going to have to do some testing and see what it likes.
Jim.
90/10s alone will make a big difference. I ran some short 550 lb springs at one time and with 90/10s they lifted pretty good. My Morosos are around 210 lb I think but very long. So lots of compressed energy. My Viking coilovers use 350 lb springs and actually were more consistent in 60's. Not a real fair comparison because clutch was slipping a lot more then too so it came out smoother.
As George said. You're going to have to do some testing and see what it likes.
Jim.
Last edited by 427Hotrod; 04-18-2017 at 03:27 PM.
04-18-2017, 03:27 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
The front limit factor is generally the shocks extended length and or steering links bottoming out. From the static position measure how high you nose is. Then jack the middle front cross member of the car until your tires almost leave the ground. That height is your max weight x-fer.
I've driven my dragster and over 1000 hp Camaros down the 1/4 mile and getting the tires to hook up was not a problem. I've always used slicks even on my Vettes for drag racing. I personally never used 90/10's because you see cars that can get the front tires in the air and when they come down the front bounces a few times. I would rather have more control over the car going down the track.
Slicks need a big water box burn out to get heat in the tires. My vette i did a second gear burn out. On the hit in the water with my line lock set the speedo would go up to 90 mph and I would hold it to a count of 4 and then release the line lock and as the car starts to move forward let off the gas and then drive up to the staging light.
I usually let the other person burn out first and goof around before I started my burn out to have the max heat still in the tires when we are both stagged
I've driven my dragster and over 1000 hp Camaros down the 1/4 mile and getting the tires to hook up was not a problem. I've always used slicks even on my Vettes for drag racing. I personally never used 90/10's because you see cars that can get the front tires in the air and when they come down the front bounces a few times. I would rather have more control over the car going down the track.
Slicks need a big water box burn out to get heat in the tires. My vette i did a second gear burn out. On the hit in the water with my line lock set the speedo would go up to 90 mph and I would hold it to a count of 4 and then release the line lock and as the car starts to move forward let off the gas and then drive up to the staging light.
I usually let the other person burn out first and goof around before I started my burn out to have the max heat still in the tires when we are both stagged
ok I will make some passes the way it is and see what happens. I agree heat in slicks is needed, second gear burn out will help for sure. Like I said it may be tricky getting it to work initially. I have never setup a 4-link before. I understand the principles but have no hands on experience.
I will post up some results in a few weeks when I hit the track. I plan to hit a local 1/8 mile to work on the 60'. My car runs pretty good out the back door so im not worried about that.
Thanks for the input!
04-18-2017, 03:52 PM
#7
Race Director
Member Since: Jan 2000
Location: Corsicana, Tx
Posts: 12,603
Received 1,874 Likes
on
912 Posts
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
C2 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
2017 C2 of Year Finalist
Some 4 corner scales could help too.
Jim.
Jim.
04-18-2017, 04:35 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks Jim!
I can get my hands on a 4 corner scale setup. I am just trying to figure out in what order to go in setting everything up. I don't wanna fall into the trap of starting to setup the 4-link then change something in the front and have to start over. If I can get the car to work somewhat with the suspension I have and then start making improvements by changing springs and shocks up front that would be the ticket.
At the moment I think I have the springs too tight in the rear as she is pretty stiff. I need to check the instant center and see if I can get the car near or on the antisquat line. From there I can see how it comes out on a soft 3k launch and start adjusting from there.
I have never had a good launch in this car, the hand full of times it has hooked I left parts at the starting line....hence the solid axle swap!
I have no idea how the car will act or even what to expect, I am guessing on how hard to hit it out of the hole....either way it should be fun experimenting!
I can get my hands on a 4 corner scale setup. I am just trying to figure out in what order to go in setting everything up. I don't wanna fall into the trap of starting to setup the 4-link then change something in the front and have to start over. If I can get the car to work somewhat with the suspension I have and then start making improvements by changing springs and shocks up front that would be the ticket.
At the moment I think I have the springs too tight in the rear as she is pretty stiff. I need to check the instant center and see if I can get the car near or on the antisquat line. From there I can see how it comes out on a soft 3k launch and start adjusting from there.
I have never had a good launch in this car, the hand full of times it has hooked I left parts at the starting line....hence the solid axle swap!
I have no idea how the car will act or even what to expect, I am guessing on how hard to hit it out of the hole....either way it should be fun experimenting!
