bmans vette

There are certainly guys out there doing great work.
Problem is you don't see the pics showing the details of their work like Gary has shared with me.
If there are any others doing this level of work and sharing pics of it....I think you should share that here so that others may know who they are.

Until then....I'll let Gary's proof in the pics speak for themselves.

Carry on....Bman

super charged

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-10-bolt.html

bmans vette

Great thread....thanks for sharing. Like I posted in your thread, it will be great to follow your progress.
We both know there are several vendors out there not doing this quality of work and some of them are big name places.
Nice to see another perfectionist step up.

Bman

bmans vette

Gary sent me these today.
It shows the difference in the quality of parts out there.
Tom's Differentials was the source of all my build except for the original case and cover and the GM posi.

Gary sent my spiders out for heat treatment when he got them over the winter from Tom's.

Txs for following along.

From Gary

Hi Dennis

Here are the spiders to be used. A real super 10 uses the same spiders as a 12 bolt- 10-17 formed and heat treated 30 spline spiders. There is no webbing between the teeth as you will find on the new Eaton spiders and some of what I see on forums. These are the BEST and long gone now, although the current ones Tom has are not too bad. Use these over the webbed ones in the new loaded Eatons any day of the week.

bmans vette

Details, details, details......I hope you all appreciate this level of detailed work and require it of those working on yours.

From Gary
Here I ground a radius on the edge of every tooth. This is best practice to insure proper tuning, although pictures I see of so called tuned posi's don't have any radius work done- that tells me they don't know what they're doing or don't care

stingraymax

Gary Did my steering box and I also received a ton of information and photo's af the process, he also helped me with rebuilding my Diff.

He is very helpful and patient with you if you ask information, he is a super person to deal with.

And his work is immaculate.

bmans vette

Hey Dennis

I started the posi tuning tonight but won't finish it. You will see I used new solid steel clutches not fiber coated or the snowflakes.

The solid steels were used from '65- early 71 in Eaton posi's and then the change was made to the so called Snowflakes. The thought was the cut outs in the clutches would allow the posi additive and oil to better mix in between the clutched to eliminate the common problem of posi chatter. Did it work? No it made no difference because the spring pack was still causing issue depending on how tight the spider lash was when assembled. In fact many of these clutches broke in use as a result. The latest thought was to use carbon fiber over solid steel, which will smudge off and allow slippage eliminating chatter. The problem is they use huge springs, less clutches, and where does all the carbon fiber go when they are grinding against each other? in the oil. The huge spring load takes up the slack and in time will cause a problem. A lot of shops offer new loaded posi's when one is needed and this is the type they use. Jegs and Summit along with any Eaton dealer sell them for about $550.

We are not going to go that route with your build. You will have the best posi case, spiders, axles and clutches in a dialed- in, balanced posi. One you won't find at a parts house, vendor, or from most rebuilders.
I am running in your clutches now on my machine. I used to do them by hand but the machine applies even force better then manual seating can. This process takes some time of seating and balancing and comes down to grinding shims within 001" to achive the best results. I see where some guys try this and fail because they don't get the clutches balanced and that just won't work. Also a correctly tuned posi will NOT have any springs or plates in it. I once asked Tom about that and after he stopped laughing said he never built or saw a tuned posi with springs and plates. That is the reason to tune a posi so can only mean the posi wasn't tuned or wasn't setup correctly. All my builds from 300 hp st cars, to road race cars, to drag cars have fully polished and tuned posi's, with the highest HP in use rated at 950hp at the crank.

jb78L-82

Gary is the man!!!

I took my steering box out of my 78 and drove it to Ct from RI in 2010. Gary spent 2 hours with me explaining his shop, methods, and what he does and opened my steering box to inspect the gears and condition while I was with him. He did the same when I personally picked it up 1 week later

He is a true craftsman and terrific to work with. On top of those accolades he is just a great guy!!!

Diffs, steering boxes, trailing arms and 4 speeds are his specialty! I spoke to him recently about doing my trailing arms..just need to get them out so I can bring them to him.

Gary goes way beyond what most folks do with these components...not sure why anyone would go anywhere else for this type of work....?????????????

bmans vette

From Gary

This message came in on June 15th.

Hi Dennis,

Tonight I got the posi tuned very close to down, I just need to grind 2 new shims. So I broke it all down, washed the parts and packaged them to ship out for Cryo treating. I have 2 boxes going out you can see all the parts I send in for the batch treatment. I added in the steel cap too since I am going to finish grind it then it won't matter. Weight came close to 50 lbs shipping and I am heading out now to FedEx before they close so they should be there on Monday. I think it was take a week or so to get them back.

Important thing to remember here is that Gary does not have parts cryoed until they have been fitted.

bmans vette

Now that the inner workings are off to be cryo treated Gary went back to the housing itself. A LOT of work here....boring holes, tapping threads, chasing old threads, scrapping, cleaning, wire brushing....etc...etc...

31 pics in all.

I wonder if other people get this much detailed work or just a closed up differential housing. It would be nice to see some other insides of differentials done by other vendors.

From Gary




Hi Dennis

Hope your trip is going as well as it can. I know you may not see these until you get home but it will keep me up to date on your build.

I caught a break and got your parts to FedEx in time last night and they are now in hand at the heat treaters. He may get them into deep freeze next week.

With the posi and gears out, I went back to the housing. I tapped and fit a magnetic drain plug. I do this on every diff, other then NCRS builds, and for $8 it is really a time saver. Makes changing the diff gear oil a piece of cake. Now believe it or not one customer called me a few years ago because a well know FL rebuilder wanted $50 to tap a 1/4 npt hole and fit the plug. It took me less then 10 minutes and that was getting the drill bits and oil! $50 a hole I can't believe it but that is the truth and once I told him how to do it was very happy.

I see there is some hit damage from a previous ring gear bolt failure but nothing cracked or chipped so I don't see any reason not to use the housing. I cleaned it up inside by wire brushings, chasing the holes, deburring the race bores, bottom tapping and countersinking the pads holes, and radiusing the edges. This is something you can do at home and I think is worth the time, just wear a good mask. I do this to every diff I build and you can compare the pictures to those online and you'll clearly see the difference in the work.

I may tap the LH pad holes tomorrow but that's about all I can do until the parts come back in from cryo.

bmans vette

details of cleaning and clearing out passages

This came in on June 16th
Can only load 10 pics on a post so it will take a few for all of them.
They may seem out of order so bear with me....txs

bmans vette

These show prep of the case surface and install of the drain plug.
Removl of boring burrs.
Wire polishing pics to follow

Also included is a pic where a ring gear bolt head hit the inside of the case from a previous failure. Not enough to cause concern as it is a thick area.

Gary said that total work runs in the neighborhood of 40-50 man hours.

You can see why........

bmans vette

More pics of the inside polishing.

bmans vette

Obviously my Post #34 should have been the last one as it shows the case cleaned out after all the wire brushing and detailed grinding.

Bear with me....still not up to par these days.

Txs
Bman (Dennis)

More to come.

bmans vette

Now we get into the load bearing steel cap fitting which is much stronger than the stock cap.
Gary details in here why the cap on the drive (ring gear) side is the crucial one.

From Gary




Hi Dennis,

Since most of your parts are at the heat treaters being cryo treated the only thing I could do was tap the LH pad for the steel cap. When using a steel cap the pad holes are increased in size from 7/16-14 to 1/2-13 threads. This allows them to be torqued to 100 ft/lb safely and the larger bolt is stronger. Now there are several ways to do this. If I was in a rush I could hold the housing tight and use a hand drill to drill the tap size hole and tap it. This will work no question about it but I prefer to use the machines I have and make sure the holes are correct. So I set them up in Bridgeport. I drill press could be used too but the mill is 1000 times better then a press. I have read where some guys say the pads are always out and have to be flycut or milled but I have never found that in 100's of housings I used. If so I wouldn't get a level pad check with my indicator. Now the pad surface does vary a little, you have to check for any burrs around the holes, dings, etc. The iron is soft. I got your housing pad within 0005" from hole to hole, centered the holes, drilled the tap size hole, countersunk, and tapped on center. Yes it is a longer process but that is how we were taught 45 years ago in trade school, it still applies today.


So that's all I can do until the parts come back in. Then I will finish the posi tuning and fit the steel cap.



There is no need for a steel cap on your RH side. I have read where guys had them installed and really it's just throwing money at a procedure not required. It does not add any strength the housing and the reason for a steel cap on the LH pad is because the way the ring gear wants to move under load. If you were looking at the back of the diff, assembled, and picture the load driving the pinion, the posi and RG want to pull out or lift at the LH side. Under extreme loading as with a hard launch with power, there is potential for the stock cast caps to stretch causing the RG teeth to move enough to jam and break. The steel cap will not do that and the larger bolts will hold it tighter then the stock bolts. The RH side wants to dig into the housing, away from the cap, so that side is not loaded anywhere as much as the LH. Using Socket heads over hex head adds strength. Other applications then a vette can use HD covers with bolts that lock against the caps. Steel caps have been around a long time, nothing new about them but really only needed for hard use. A street car, say under 400hp with street tires and mild track use more likely does not need a steel cap.




Since most guys are on a budget today and even years ago I choose to only use what will be needed for the application. That is why I really don't see the need for REM polishing on most applications, unless the owner just wants it or they get poor advice on the process. It is a very good process don't get me wrong, just not needed for you. Polishing a posi as I do will achieve a smooth and radiused finish. The R&P would benefit from a much smoother surface which will cut down on heat build up but for other then extended road racing it's not needed and I don't think you plan on racing your car for 4 hours correct?


I'll be back in touch once I get the parts back and continue on with the build.

Hope your trip home was uneventful.



6 pics to follow

TCracingCA

What are you guys cryro-ing?

Curious the gears I assume have a heat treat, the forged spiders also. The Posi in the construction I would assume also, not sure!
The polish I thought was more to eliminate stressed edges and imperfections in the casting! I never thought heat as it will heat up to the temp of the oil in general!

Cool sharing! I am going to have to look up REM polishing is as I just assumed I know what this term process is, but have never done any of it or what it would do to benefit the durability.

TCracingCA

Ok REM Polishing not technically a polishing but a coating process or surfacing process. I was way off.

I love the pictures, now that I am on a computer where they will load. Was driving me crazy on the iPhone, but it was well worth the wait. I have to go back up and thank all of the post. Cool stuff being shared here! Maybe I missed getting the answers to with all of the loading the phone was trying to do, to my small questions!

bmans vette

Thanks Derek for your posts.
I'll ask Gary to answer your questions. Cryo is deep freeze treatment that hardens the steel but REM polishing is like you said a coating process that is supposed to add super slickness to the metal.
I can certainly justify the Cryo treatment cost for this project but see no need for REM polishing.
Thanks for your interest in my thread.

Dennis (Bman)

bmans vette

What I really like about dealing with Gary Ramadei.....his communication.

Here is Gary's follow up comments about the different hardening processes done in my build.

From Gary..

Toms axles are soft faced, to use them on a drag car only with limited mileage won't be an issue. For a street car you have to harden and temper them otherwise they will wear rapidly. So your axle faces were hardened in Dec. The splines are hardened by Tom's already so it's just the faces that have to be corrected.

Cryo treating can be viewed as hardening as well but it's more about the molecules of the metal becoming denser I believe after a very slow bath down to -300*F and soaking for 48 hrs and a slow thaw. There are more in depth explanations of the whole process online, bottom line is it does help. Same for REM polishing it works but it all comes down to budget for the build and now to throw money at something that really isn't needed for the application- like a RH steel cap- makes no difference having one yet some feel it's stronger with one - it is not.

Cryo parts are back and Gary will continue shortly with my build.
I don't need mine right away so we are bumping mine so he can do 3 steering boxes that others need asap.

Stay tuned.......

Happy 4th to you all.

Bman

bmans vette

Seems like Gary always has time to work on my project even when he is "off"......lol
These pics show the details of polishing after receiving back from cryo treatment.
He also applies POR15 with cast blast spray as final coat on the axles.

From Gary...

Hi Dennis,

Once I got the parts back in from Cryo I final polished the case and etched, POR15 and top coated the axles. Once the paint was hard I polished the axles in the lathe. You can see the case looks grayer in the unpolished areas and now I can final tune it. I final tune after cryo treating since there is a usually a slight difference afterwards with the previous fit. This one is the same, if I didn't account for this and left it as it was the tune would be off.