Maymyvetteliveforevr

1975 Vette small block.

Problem:

Engine will turn over every time when cold.

Engine will turn over when hot.

Engine will not turn over after cooling for 10 minutes, I only get one click sound from the starter solenoid.

When the engine cools down it turns over again.

Diagnostic

When the engine won't turn over but the starter solenoid will click, I can get the engine to turn over by crossing the wires on the starter solenoid, ever time. In other words, I turn the ignition switch to the start position, the engine won't turn over but the starter solenoid will click. I then leave the ignition switch to the on position and manually cross the wires on the starter solenoid and the engine will turn over and start.

Background.

Starter has approximately 1000 miles on it but is 28 years old as the car was stored in my garage for 26 years. I did a body off resto recently so it's back on the road.

I removed the starter, replaced the starter solenoid, cleaned the wires, and the same problem exists.

I have headers and no starter blanket.

I used a test light and got my wife to turn the ignition switch to the start position and I have bright light on the test light to the starter solenoid.

I used 12V from the alternator and used alligator clips for direct power to the starter, (I wanted to bypass the ignition switch) and got one click sound to the solenoid.

Any suggestions.

Big2Bird

Sounds like the starter to me.

Maymyvetteliveforevr

Thanks for the reply Big2Bird.

That would have been my first guess but why does the engine turn over every time I cross the terminals on the starter solenoid?

Big2Bird

Perhaps the ignition switch cant handle the higher amperage when the starter is warm.

Not much else to that system.

You may get 12 volts off the switch with no load, but the voltage dips under load.

Rescue Rogers

It sounds like the solenoid is bad. When you cross the wires you are bypassing the solenoid which is like a giant relay. You can replace it individually or the entire starter. Next time tap the solenoid with the handle of a screwdriver and see if that frees up the internals.

Maymyvetteliveforevr

Big2Bird

I supplied power directly from the alternator bypassing the ignition switch and the problem remained.

Rescue Rogers

I replaced the solenoid, as well taped both the old and new solenoid and still no change.

My thoughts are the heat from the headers are causing the problem, but then why does it start what at max engine temperature. The starter doesn't engage about 10 minutes during cool down, then starts about 1/2 hour later.

mrvette

The negative from the battery goes to the frame right under the box on my '72, scrape the hell outta the frame and cable end, shiny metal, new bolt/grip washer, secure tightly, then put RTV all over the entire area to kill any corrosion, in fact dap some on the bolt/hole before bolting down.....

then same treatment on the ~6" length like on my car, under pass side of block and in middle of engine mount...same deal/treatment....I secure the engine end of wire to the engine mount bracket.....I know that in some cases the wire if routed differently.....but use same technique.....

untill then, you never know....

Big2Bird

There is a GM Service bulletin on this. They used a brown high temp solenoid to fix that issue.

sunflower 1972

Your thinking about heat from the headers is correct BUT, there's a thing called heat soak. After turning off the engine, engine components actually get hotter before they begin to cool off.

Rescue Rogers

maybe try an insulted wrap that goes around the starter as well as the brown solenoid.

Good luck!

lionelhutz

Which wires do you cross? There's more than 2 connections at the solenoid.

Maymyvetteliveforevr

Thanks for the reply everyone

mrvette

I made sure the negative has a sold connection when I did the body off.

Big2Bird

I never heard of the brown high temp solenoid, does anyone have a manufacture and part number. I wonder why others with headers aren't having this problem, nor did I when the car was on the road before storage?

Rescue Rogers

I believe this may help, is there a write up on how to make and or install this insulated wrap? Again, I never heard of this "brown solenoid".

lionelhutz

If you're looking at the solenoid connections I'm crossing the large brass connector with the main battery cable (at 12 o'clock) as well as the smaller connector with the "S" stamp (at 3 o'clock). The remaining connector that are untouched are the bottom large connector (at 6 o'clock) connects to the connector on the starter and the small connector (at 9 o'clock) with the "R" stamp, is not connected/empty.


Update,

I took the starter apart and it looks new as the brushed are in great shape as well as the rest of the internals.

Peterbuilt

All good suggestions here, so what's left?
Is the battery positive wire going bad?

sunflower 1972

Perhaps this will help with the heat from the headers issue:https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NDP6561571

Rescue Rogers

http://www.cjponyparts.com/dei-start...HS1/?year=2000

Something like this

lionelhutz

That basically means that the wiring providing power to the purple start terminal isn't capable of supplying the current required without having too much voltage drop.

You can try to sort out the wiring. But, it could involve any part of the wiring in the loop from the battery to the key to the neutral safety switch to the starter. Fusible links, firewall plugs, ignition switch, neutral safety switch or any of the wiring or terminals.

The other option is to switch to a mini starter. The solenoid on these draws way less current to pull-in. Try one for a mid 90's pickup. Shouldn't be too expensive.

sunflower 1972

Here ya' go.
One brown high temp solenoid:

Big2Bird

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1594570336

svetter84

I had same problem with my 81. Got to where I didn't want to drive it no where unless I was going to be there a couple of hours. Its the heat soak issue in starter. I even put a new ac delco starter on and same issue. If your compression ratio is higher than a stock motor this could be an issue also. Look on here at older post it explains it better. I ended up changing the starter to a mini higher torque starter (http://www.jegs.com/i/Powermaster/713/9000/10002/-1) and also wrapped the headers under and behind the starter. NO MORE PROBLEMS. It was well worth the extra money!

stingr69

Solenoid is probably still serviceable. The OP is bypassing the electrical harness and everything in it. The problem is in that area. A remote relay would bypass this problem and act like the short circuit (screwdriver) between the terminals. I recommend this mod all the time because it works.

Voltage drops in the harness, age, plus heat is causing the issue.