Oil on plugs after rebuild.
09-12-2017, 09:40 PM
#121
...but builders are just that, builders, it really does fall on the owner to get that oil clean, even if it takes an engine oil flush. I have even heard some machine shops say you need to leave that stuff in there so the walls and rings will seat properly..
scary or what!!! I believe even brand new cars they dont want you changing the oil just for that reason until final breakin completes.
09-12-2017, 09:56 PM
#122
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
that would be the best course of action, hopefully he may know something we dont...the bronze guides could explain the gold i see on the valve stems. If nothing comes from talking to builder, take an oil sample on a clean piece of mirror or glass, just dab the oil dipstick on it...if it looks dirty at all compared to new oil, change it. From the pics i seen of drain plug on the rag it looks pretty dirty...it should be clean as new or real close to it. I would guess if valve assemblies were rebuilt as well then its not the valve seals but likely your oil is still contaminated. All those fine particles are caused from the cross hatch honing in the machining of block...it would also explain the 120psi conpression test. I would think your compression should be a little higher...pushing 140, but if the walls are still breaking in, then it will be lower for sure...i wouldnt give it a second thought, i would change the oil....run it for an hour and compare another oil sample. I bet if you pulled the dipstick and checked and oil sample, you will find small particles of grey dust it oil, which tends to stick to crosshatch and cause oil to get by the rings. The only TRUE way of knowing is to inspect walls with pistons at bottom of stroke...if you see crosshatch pattern then you have nothing to do except keep changing oil, and there is nothing to worry about. Good luck in any case!!
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I think it looks like new.
Last edited by LenWoodruff; 09-12-2017 at 09:57 PM.
09-13-2017, 11:22 AM
#123
I agree you have done enough due diligence. 120 psi compression, high oil consumption, iron splinters on the drain plug and caked oil on the back of the valves is not normal for a new engine. Hold your engine builder to fixing it before it's too late.
Last edited by Neil B; 09-13-2017 at 11:33 AM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Neil B:
PainfullySlow (11-09-2017),
vette8121 (10-09-2017)
09-13-2017, 11:37 AM
#124
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I have called and am waiting for him to call me back.
09-13-2017, 11:56 AM
#125
Melting Slicks
When you talk to him, be sure to suggest a leakdown test to confirm the rings are doing their job. If the rings are good, then it's pretty much the heads that are the problem.....which you likely already know.
Your builder needs to stand behind his work.
Your builder needs to stand behind his work.
09-13-2017, 12:10 PM
#126
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks I will make sure I ask for that.
09-13-2017, 10:49 PM
#127
Two or three quarts for the first thousand miles i dont think is that much...consumption should tapper off exponentially though. What i also think is strange and leaving questions in my head is how black the ports look inside the engines heads....if all the guides were done and vavle job it should be pretty clean, but bad timing would explain that....
Last edited by san; 09-13-2017 at 11:07 PM.
09-14-2017, 08:45 AM
#128
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Valve timing would explain oil on the intake valves?
09-15-2017, 08:00 AM
#130
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
09-15-2017, 08:02 AM
#131
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I will be taking the car in Monday to the engine builder. He thinks it is likely the valve seals. I took the bore scope to a couple of the springs I could see from the oil filler hole and I could see umbrella seals there.
So we will see next week whats up I hope.
So we will see next week whats up I hope.
09-16-2017, 10:13 AM
#132
Umbrella valve stem seals will not do anything. After the valve guides are machined correct, and the valve job is correct, and the valve stem has the correct finish, the valve guides have to be machined for a seal that seals to the valve guide (link above) like these.
Heads that are machined correct even with no valve stem seals will not make the spark plugs look like yours, its time to face the facts, you need to find a shop that takes great pride in there valve jobs and get your heads to them.
Get your bore scope out, pull the passenger side exhaust manifold off, turn the engine over until the number 6 exhaust valve is open, get that bore scope down there in the exhaust port and take a look at the exhaust valve where it seals on the valve seat.....your not going to like what you see.
Last edited by Vortecpro; 09-16-2017 at 10:24 AM.
09-16-2017, 11:52 AM
#133
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
https://www.carid.com/images/manley/...ts/24046-8.jpg
Umbrella valve stem seals will not do anything. After the valve guides are machined correct, and the valve job is correct, and the valve stem has the correct finish, the valve guides have to be machined for a seal that seals to the valve guide (link above) like these.
Heads that are machined correct even with no valve stem seals will not make the spark plugs look like yours, its time to face the facts, you need to find a shop that takes great pride in there valve jobs and get your heads to them.
Get your bore scope out, pull the passenger side exhaust manifold off, turn the engine over until the number 6 exhaust valve is open, get that bore scope down there in the exhaust port and take a look at the exhaust valve where it seals on the valve seat.....your not going to like what you see.
Umbrella valve stem seals will not do anything. After the valve guides are machined correct, and the valve job is correct, and the valve stem has the correct finish, the valve guides have to be machined for a seal that seals to the valve guide (link above) like these.
Heads that are machined correct even with no valve stem seals will not make the spark plugs look like yours, its time to face the facts, you need to find a shop that takes great pride in there valve jobs and get your heads to them.
Get your bore scope out, pull the passenger side exhaust manifold off, turn the engine over until the number 6 exhaust valve is open, get that bore scope down there in the exhaust port and take a look at the exhaust valve where it seals on the valve seat.....your not going to like what you see.
What would you expect I would see with the exhaust valve open with the bore scope? Oil leakage?
09-16-2017, 03:52 PM
#134
https://www.carid.com/images/manley/...ts/24046-8.jpg
Umbrella valve stem seals will not do anything. After the valve guides are machined correct, and the valve job is correct, and the valve stem has the correct finish, the valve guides have to be machined for a seal that seals to the valve guide (link above) like these.
Heads that are machined correct even with no valve stem seals will not make the spark plugs look like yours, its time to face the facts, you need to find a shop that takes great pride in there valve jobs and get your heads to them.
Get your bore scope out, pull the passenger side exhaust manifold off, turn the engine over until the number 6 exhaust valve is open, get that bore scope down there in the exhaust port and take a look at the exhaust valve where it seals on the valve seat.....your not going to like what you see.
Umbrella valve stem seals will not do anything. After the valve guides are machined correct, and the valve job is correct, and the valve stem has the correct finish, the valve guides have to be machined for a seal that seals to the valve guide (link above) like these.
Heads that are machined correct even with no valve stem seals will not make the spark plugs look like yours, its time to face the facts, you need to find a shop that takes great pride in there valve jobs and get your heads to them.
Get your bore scope out, pull the passenger side exhaust manifold off, turn the engine over until the number 6 exhaust valve is open, get that bore scope down there in the exhaust port and take a look at the exhaust valve where it seals on the valve seat.....your not going to like what you see.
Last edited by PAmotorman; 09-16-2017 at 03:54 PM.
The following users liked this post:
LenWoodruff (09-16-2017)
09-16-2017, 06:18 PM
#135
[QUOTE=LenWoodruff;1595580568]I agree that those are the best valve seals to have. I just worry that since you have to cut the head to fit them that would make it prone to cracking down the road.
What would you expect I would see with the exhaust valve open with the bore scope? Oil leakage?[/QUOT
Your going to see a burnt blackened valve at its sealing point. No valve guide design in the world is going to work if the guides are not done right, along with the valve job. I can assure you valve guides do not crack from being machined for a positive seal.
How cylinder head work is done:
sehttp://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/948193-bbc-closed-chamber-head-restoration-pictures.htmlal.
What would you expect I would see with the exhaust valve open with the bore scope? Oil leakage?[/QUOT
Your going to see a burnt blackened valve at its sealing point. No valve guide design in the world is going to work if the guides are not done right, along with the valve job. I can assure you valve guides do not crack from being machined for a positive seal.
How cylinder head work is done:
sehttp://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/948193-bbc-closed-chamber-head-restoration-pictures.htmlal.
Last edited by Vortecpro; 09-16-2017 at 06:38 PM.
09-16-2017, 06:54 PM
#136
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=Vortecpro;1595582534]
Thanks for the link. I see where the valve guides were cut for the positive seal.
If there is nothing wrong with the seals then the problem has to be the guides weren't done correctly and the only solution would be the positive seals?
I agree that those are the best valve seals to have. I just worry that since you have to cut the head to fit them that would make it prone to cracking down the road.
What would you expect I would see with the exhaust valve open with the bore scope? Oil leakage?[/QUOT
Your going to see a burnt blackened valve at its sealing point. No valve guide design in the world is going to work if the guides are not done right, along with the valve job. I can assure you valve guides do not crack from being machined for a positive seal.
How cylinder head work is done:
sehttp://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/948193-bbc-closed-chamber-head-restoration-pictures.htmlal.
What would you expect I would see with the exhaust valve open with the bore scope? Oil leakage?[/QUOT
Your going to see a burnt blackened valve at its sealing point. No valve guide design in the world is going to work if the guides are not done right, along with the valve job. I can assure you valve guides do not crack from being machined for a positive seal.
How cylinder head work is done:
sehttp://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/948193-bbc-closed-chamber-head-restoration-pictures.htmlal.
If there is nothing wrong with the seals then the problem has to be the guides weren't done correctly and the only solution would be the positive seals?
09-19-2017, 08:23 AM
#137
Instructor
I pulled my 3 and 7 plugs last night to look at them again, they were cleaned about 400 miles ago. They have a lot of thick, black oil on the threads and towards the seal but the tip looks dry with some carbon build up. There is no oil on the outside of the plug hole. So is the oil getting into the cylinder and being burned off the tip of the plug and collecting in the threads? Sorry to piggy-back this thread but my problems sound very similar.
Last edited by See Three; 09-19-2017 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Added apology
09-19-2017, 08:40 AM
#138
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I pulled my 3 and 7 plugs last night to look at them again, they were cleaned about 400 miles ago. They have a lot of thick, black oil on the threads and towards the seal but the tip looks dry with some carbon build up. There is no oil on the outside of the plug hole. So is the oil getting into the cylinder and being burned off the tip of the plug and collecting in the threads? Sorry to piggy-back this thread but my problems sound very similar.
Also my plug have the oil on the intake side of the plug and oil residue on the top of the intake valves.
09-19-2017, 09:00 AM
#139
Instructor
Mine was using a quart every 250 miles for the first 1000 miles after rebuild. I'm at 1500 miles now and I think it may be starting to taper a bit but I'll need to put a few more miles on to be sure.
09-19-2017, 09:46 AM
#140
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I am at 1700+ miles and it still burning a quart every 3 00 miles. I think the difference for your is there is no oil on the electrode just around the the threads. That is probably oil getting past the rings until they are fully seated.