StDomingos

I was having a lovely cruise a few days ago and decided to stomp on the gas for a little fun on a clear stretch of road. I came to a stop shortly after and noticed that the idle was nasty and I was missing power. Also had a few puffs of oil smoke from the driver's side tailpipe.

I pulled the driver's side valve cover today and saw this.









I am pretty sure the pushrods were hardened, but I am not certain (they are Comp High-Energy part 7823). If they weren't, well I guess that explains the problem. If the pushrods were hardened, any idea what might have caused this?

The other pushrods on this side look pretty good. Some show signs of rubbing, but no metal has been lost. The guideplate that ate this pushrod looks good too, I don't see any signs of wear or missing metal on it.

So, what know? This engine is a new crate with new heads and has about 1200 miles on it. Replace the pushrod (or all the pushrods), change the oil a couple times and cross my fingers?

427Hotrod

Very cheap lo performance pushrods. Designed to run in heads without guide plates. The ***** on the end are a give away.

Order some quality one piece pushrods from Crane, Comp, Smith, Trend etc. They don't have to be ridiculous ones...just good ones.

Ck guideplate closely and make sure it's not binding things and is still OK.




JIM

HeadsU.P.

Mr 427 Hotrod is right, those are low-end rods. All though the ends did not fail, those are a pressed in type end. That break looks like the exact spot where the guide plate rubs. Are your guide plates adjustable? Meaning the rocker stud slot has some room to adjust the plate to your liking? I believe that damage is thousands and thousands of rubbing actions on the pushrod guideplate. Then, snap!
One valve might have hung open for a brief second, but I doubt it. (I just put a set of Black Chromoly thick wall pushrods on Craigs last night). H-m-m-m-m-m-m-.

7t9l82

It looks like the slot in the heads the pushrods go through may be a bit tight but I can't tell. I do agree better pushrods should be on your short list. Do you have 1.6 rockers?

HeadsU.P.

After reviewing your photos again I noticed the splitlocks on that one retainer seem a bit odd. Pretty good gap there. I don't recall mine ever doing that and fit more tightly. This might be another clue to the mystery.

Also, being a crate engine, I assume the valvetrain geometry was checked and double checked. High lift cams, 1.6+ rockers, incorrect spring height, too long or short of pushrod, retainers striking the guide can destroy parts.

Looks like a rocker tip wear mark is deadcenter on the valvestem tip. Thats a good sign.

StDomingos

Thanks for the feedback gents. Sounds like the consensus is I should buy some better pushrods

The rockers are 1.52s

The engine is a Goodwrench 190. The cam and heads were swapped out with a set of assembled Brodix IK180s, so the valves, springs and retainers were set up at the Brodix factory. The pushrods and rockers were put on by a friend with a bit more experience than me.

The cam is a Comp XE256, so it's not too extreme.

There seems to be some adjustability in the guide plates so I should be able to loosen them and move them a bit to try to even out the gaps.

When I replace the pushrods I can have a look at the split locks on the other valves.

'75

Since your valve train geometry looks ok (as stated above), measure your pushrods in case they are not standard length.

7T1vette

Looks to me like that pushrod was side-loaded, once it was assembled, and it just rubbed itself thin against the bore in the head. Once it got thin enough, the loading was more than that little thin section could take and it collapsed.

It could have been an installation problem or a machining problem with the head. Just check it for adequate side clearance when you assemble the new rod.

HeadsU.P.

When you pull your intake off, run a magnet around the lifter valley, looking for fragments. Drain oil, change filter and I would get one of those strong oil pan magnets and place it near the drain plug.

Some aluminum heads require longer pushrods due to design. The rocker stud is a little higher than stock heads. You will need a pushrod length checker ($14). The checker is adjustable with two nuts. With guide plates in the way of adjustment, I found if you put the adj nuts towards the lifter its easier. SBC are usually 7.8" long. Don't be surprised with Brodrix heads that it takes a 7.9-8.1 pushrod. The dye marks on the valvestem tip will show you the proper geometry needed and custom length pushrods can be had from Summit.

StDomingos

So, you figure I'll have to pull the intake to put this back together? I had assumed I could get away with just putting a new pushrod back in and re-adjusting the rocker.

As for pushrod length, I did measure when the engine was built (it was 7.7 by the way). I will have a look at the valve stems of the other cylinders when I replace all the pushrods to be sure, but as others have said, the witness marks on valve with the broken one look pretty good.

HeadsU.P.

The thing is, you don't know if any metal chips fell down into the lifter valley. If it were me, I would pull the intake and have a look around now rather than scuffing some bearings from shrapnel. It will only cost you the price of intake gasket and a few moments of your time.
The 7.7 doesn't sound right for pushrod length but I have never owned Brodix. Somethings not right here and I suspect the measurement was askew or inproperly done. With the pushrod checker in position, did you rotate the crank one full turn and check the bluing ink on the valvestem? Seems like the pushrod should be 8" ish.
Leaving any metal fragments in the valley could ruin your lifters. So for $20 in gaskets you can be rest assured that at least the valley is clean. And I hope you mean a new "SET" of pushrods not just one. The others will follow suit.
Its funny how some engine builders will spend thousands on cam, intake, headers and heads, but use $19.95 pushrods.

MotorHead

I learned many years ago that those pushrods are garbage, nothing good about them, besides the problem you have the ***** on the end wear down very fast putting metal into your engine and f'ing up your lash adjustment.

Too bad they can still get away with selling those pieces of crap to this day. Get yourself a nice 1 piece pushrod and you won't have any of these problems again.

StDomingos

So do you think I will have to tear down the whole engine and do a rebuild due to the metal that would have come off this pushrod? Will pulling the intake and changing the oil a few times be enough?

HeadsU.P.

No need for a tear down just yet. Just pull the intake. Put a towel down in the lifter valley. Pull one lifter at a time and place it up side down on the towel. Any metal in the pushrod hole should drain out. Then, make sure the lifters go right back in the same bore.

Order your correct gaskets to match your ports. While waiting for the gaskets to arrive, use a pushrod length checker instead of trying to recall the length. Then order your pushrods accordingly, but one-piece, thick wall from a reliable company.

Ryan Menzies

OP,

I did the same thing regarding pushrods and the High Energy ones. In fact a couple people on the forums picked up on it before I did. Anyways, I tried them and had them removed within the hour after running it. Mine we not near as bad as yours but within 1 hour they were definitely on the way to what you're showing.

If you want to use Comp then you must use Magnum or High tech because of the heat treated/hardened rod. I ended up with Magum's on intake and Hi-Tech on exhaust (or vica-versa) because not one model covered what I need for intake AND exhaust. I checked them last weekend (250 miles) and not a scratch on them.
Just my 2 cents.

You've put some miles on yours so if any metal has gone through the pickup on the oil pump, it did it long ago. Maybe you have a magnet in the oil pan or a magnetized drain plug?
IMO I would do as many have suggested - pull the intake and have a look and grab a pencil magnet or something. Once you had everything visual removed, a new SET of pushrods, oil changed and road tested for a few days I would change the oil and filter again.
I'm sure it's been mentioned but cut open the filter(s) and have a look. What damage to the short block (if any) is already done and now you're only invested in some oil, antifreeze maybe and some gaskets. Needed pushrods anyway.
Just what I would do and my 2 cents. Good luck bud.

\Cheers

ronarndt

As a couple people mentioned, the guide plate has rubbed on the pushrod and worn it down so it bent at the worn/thin place on the rod. If your new crate engine has only 1200 miles on it, the guide plate was really rubbing hard on the push rod. When you install your new pushrod set, check for clearance on all of the guide plates. You may need to Dremel out the slot to allow clearance so the new rods do not get worn out also.

StDomingos

Thanks again for your input fellas.

I pulled and inspected all of the pushrods today. Two other ones show a small amount of lost metal also (just enough to catch a nail). That said, they all have some clearance in the guide plate slot and with a good push rod seated in the lifters I can wiggle them side-to-side in the slot.

All I can assume is that (as many have stated) these pushrods are crap and possibly the heat treating was poor on the set I have.

I am going to pull the intake and go hunting with a magnet. Once I get it cleaned up, the oil drained, and all put back together I will get a set of top-quality one-piece chromoly rods in and drive a hundred miles or so, change the oil again and inspect the push rods again.

Hopefully the new rods do the trick. If not, I may pull the guide plates altogether and look at a set of self-aligning rockers instead.

I'll keep you posted.

7T1vette

Sounds like a plan. Wish you luck.

ronarndt

If there is enough wear after only 1200 miles that you can "catch" it with a fingernail, the guide plate slots need to be carefully widened with a Dremmel tool or file. Even with your new higher quality push rods, you do not want substantial contact between the plate and the rod. An engine with 100,000 miles should have push rods with just a shiny finish where the rod went past the guide plate, if the plate has correct clearance. I had to take my brand new guide plates installed on my 454 and widen the opening on a couple of them so they did not make hard contact. They are stamped steel parts that usually are not custom filed or ground by the manufacturer, so some may be slightly different dimensions. Or.....you can buy the adjustable guide plates which allow moving the plate slightly before tightening the rocker studs.

stingr69

427Hotrod already said it...That Comp "High Energy" line is not guide plate compatible. Ignore the online web retailers nonsense and go directly to the Comp manufacturers web site to see for yourself. Only a factory stock, low performance head with original obround punched pushrod holes (without a guide plate) can use those "High Energy" pushrods. Might be compatible with low budget "guided tip" rockers but you should not be using those either.

The guide plates need to be moved around a bit once you loosen the rocker arm studs to align the valve stems and the rocker tips better and stop the constant rubbing. Can not be done before final engine assembly/ adjustments. I would not hog out a guide plate slot but I might open up the stud mounting hole to gain more adjustment ability if you really need it. That would be a last resort.

Bottom line - Buy the correct guide plate compatible pushrods and align the guide plates better and you should be done with this.