Help me build a 509ci Big Block
10-09-2017, 02:01 PM
#101
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13, '15- '16-'17-'18-'19, '21
Neil, the first cam in my engine was a solid flat tappet. The intake was only port matched to my AFR 315's then. The cam was 304 advertised, 258 @ .050 with .615 lift on both intake and exhaust on a 108 LSA. It made 605 hp at 6100 rpm.
Same engine with the intake now fully ported, and new solid roller with 263 @ .050 and .690 net lift intake, exhaust is 269 @.050 with .665 net lift on a 110 LSA. It made 653 hp at 6500. This thing held on strong well past peak as well so should be fun to spin it up. Haven't driven it yet with this cam. Only thing you will have to do with the Strip Dominator is it still has those extra two bolt holes on each side for the old OEM cylinder heads, so just plugged them with some aluminum solder to avoid chance of vacuum leaks.
Nice work on that intake GosFast. It was your posts on this intake on various forums that convinced me to use it.
Neil, when I wanted a new cam, I called Mike Jones for a cam and told him I wanted 50 more horsepower and a 4-500 rpm higher peak. I would say he delivered lol. Also made 50 more lb. ft. of torque. 609 lb. ft. It is considered a street roller so he says it will last a long time. Using the Morel bushing roller lifters, and I have Jesel Competition shaft rockers with 1.8 intakes.
Same engine with the intake now fully ported, and new solid roller with 263 @ .050 and .690 net lift intake, exhaust is 269 @.050 with .665 net lift on a 110 LSA. It made 653 hp at 6500. This thing held on strong well past peak as well so should be fun to spin it up. Haven't driven it yet with this cam. Only thing you will have to do with the Strip Dominator is it still has those extra two bolt holes on each side for the old OEM cylinder heads, so just plugged them with some aluminum solder to avoid chance of vacuum leaks.
Nice work on that intake GosFast. It was your posts on this intake on various forums that convinced me to use it.
Neil, when I wanted a new cam, I called Mike Jones for a cam and told him I wanted 50 more horsepower and a 4-500 rpm higher peak. I would say he delivered lol. Also made 50 more lb. ft. of torque. 609 lb. ft. It is considered a street roller so he says it will last a long time. Using the Morel bushing roller lifters, and I have Jesel Competition shaft rockers with 1.8 intakes.
Sounds great my friend.
Btw I have a decent little pile at David Howard's for your return trip if you don't mind.
Lots of meal credits and car work credits coming your way for all the ferrying of my stuff.....
See ya soon.
10-11-2017, 09:17 PM
#102
Ok guys, I'd like to get opinions on which manifold to run. The 2 candidates are the Holley Strip Dominator and the Weiand Stealth. These will both fit under my L88 hood. I'm looking to make peak power at 6,000 rpm, but I want the motor to hang on strong until 6,500 rpm. I don't mind giving up a little torque down low because with 515 cubic inches, I don't think it's going to matter in a street car.
When I got the Strip Dominator, I was impressed with it overall. However, I noticed the runner entrances at the plenum were quite small. The cross-section at this spot ranges from 2.7 to 2.9 sq. in. This would be the minimum cross-section in the ENTIRE intake path to the valve. I've never seen a single plane with a reverse taper like this before. So....I ordered the Stealth.
The Stealth is a pretty nice piece. The runners are HUGE for a dual plane (a very consistent 3.3 sq. in.). With it's cut down divider, I actually think the plenum is as big as the Holley. Casting quality is about the same. Both manifolds are a decent port match to a Fel Pro 1211. Both manifolds are exactly the same height at the front. I don't think the Stealth would need much cleanup at all. I would definitely port the carb pad/plenum area of the Holley. I don't know the significance of this, but the plenum entry which feeds 2 runners on the Stealth is 5.4 sq. in. These runners fire 180 degrees off one another, but this could be the choke point at high rpm.
So which manifold would you run?
When I got the Strip Dominator, I was impressed with it overall. However, I noticed the runner entrances at the plenum were quite small. The cross-section at this spot ranges from 2.7 to 2.9 sq. in. This would be the minimum cross-section in the ENTIRE intake path to the valve. I've never seen a single plane with a reverse taper like this before. So....I ordered the Stealth.
The Stealth is a pretty nice piece. The runners are HUGE for a dual plane (a very consistent 3.3 sq. in.). With it's cut down divider, I actually think the plenum is as big as the Holley. Casting quality is about the same. Both manifolds are a decent port match to a Fel Pro 1211. Both manifolds are exactly the same height at the front. I don't think the Stealth would need much cleanup at all. I would definitely port the carb pad/plenum area of the Holley. I don't know the significance of this, but the plenum entry which feeds 2 runners on the Stealth is 5.4 sq. in. These runners fire 180 degrees off one another, but this could be the choke point at high rpm.
So which manifold would you run?
Last edited by Neil B; 10-11-2017 at 09:20 PM.
10-11-2017, 11:16 PM
#103
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If it's going on the dyno I'd test them both!!
Both are well recognized intakes. You've got a lot of cubes so you'll be working both of them hard. Since you like to rev it a little and have a stick and 4.11's I'd go for the Strip Dominator.
That 555" I mentioned earlier was tested with a seriously professionally ported mega mega $$$ Vic Jr and a 1000 HP. Then we stuck a swap meet special out of the box ancient C-454 Edelbrock intake which I really like. (BTW- it will also go under a Vette hood as will a C427 and C400). It's a dual plane for a Dominator. We bolted an 1150 Dominator on it and ran it. At this stage the engine had a solid flat tappet in it with Dart 335 CNC heads. At the end of the day the Vic Jr made 755.7 HP@ 6500 and 685 LB FT at 5000 RPM. The dual plane made 739.6HP@6200 RPM and 673 LB FT at 5000 RPM.
At the same 6500 RPM the single plane peaked at, the dual plane was down "only 19 HP" which to me was actually very impressive considering the huge port mismatch and the fact we were already 300 RPM past it's peak. I figured a couple of hours of grinding could get that 19 HP back.
But at the end of the day...the dual plane was having trouble feeding that many cubes as RPM climbed. Certainly we weren't getting a lot of extra airflow out of the Dominator yet. But since it was designed a larger version of the old 427/425 intake for 427's and 454's...I still think it was doing well feeding 100-128 more cubes. I've never tested a Stealth against a C454...but it would likely be similar.
You're going to go through the low RPM area in about a nano-second....so anything you can do to keep feeding it will help. The intakes both look pretty nice inside but a little work with a grinder could help. Remember..they weren't designed to feed that many cubes either..both are very old (but good) designs.
JIM
Both are well recognized intakes. You've got a lot of cubes so you'll be working both of them hard. Since you like to rev it a little and have a stick and 4.11's I'd go for the Strip Dominator.
That 555" I mentioned earlier was tested with a seriously professionally ported mega mega $$$ Vic Jr and a 1000 HP. Then we stuck a swap meet special out of the box ancient C-454 Edelbrock intake which I really like. (BTW- it will also go under a Vette hood as will a C427 and C400). It's a dual plane for a Dominator. We bolted an 1150 Dominator on it and ran it. At this stage the engine had a solid flat tappet in it with Dart 335 CNC heads. At the end of the day the Vic Jr made 755.7 HP@ 6500 and 685 LB FT at 5000 RPM. The dual plane made 739.6HP@6200 RPM and 673 LB FT at 5000 RPM.
At the same 6500 RPM the single plane peaked at, the dual plane was down "only 19 HP" which to me was actually very impressive considering the huge port mismatch and the fact we were already 300 RPM past it's peak. I figured a couple of hours of grinding could get that 19 HP back.
But at the end of the day...the dual plane was having trouble feeding that many cubes as RPM climbed. Certainly we weren't getting a lot of extra airflow out of the Dominator yet. But since it was designed a larger version of the old 427/425 intake for 427's and 454's...I still think it was doing well feeding 100-128 more cubes. I've never tested a Stealth against a C454...but it would likely be similar.
You're going to go through the low RPM area in about a nano-second....so anything you can do to keep feeding it will help. The intakes both look pretty nice inside but a little work with a grinder could help. Remember..they weren't designed to feed that many cubes either..both are very old (but good) designs.
JIM
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10-12-2017, 11:08 AM
#104
If it's going on the dyno I'd test them both!!
Both are well recognized intakes. You've got a lot of cubes so you'll be working both of them hard. Since you like to rev it a little and have a stick and 4.11's I'd go for the Strip Dominator.
That 555" I mentioned earlier was tested with a seriously professionally ported mega mega $$$ Vic Jr and a 1000 HP. Then we stuck a swap meet special out of the box ancient C-454 Edelbrock intake which I really like. (BTW- it will also go under a Vette hood as will a C427 and C400). It's a dual plane for a Dominator. We bolted an 1150 Dominator on it and ran it. At this stage the engine had a solid flat tappet in it with Dart 335 CNC heads. At the end of the day the Vic Jr made 755.7 HP@ 6500 and 685 LB FT at 5000 RPM. The dual plane made 739.6HP@6200 RPM and 673 LB FT at 5000 RPM.
At the same 6500 RPM the single plane peaked at, the dual plane was down "only 19 HP" which to me was actually very impressive considering the huge port mismatch and the fact we were already 300 RPM past it's peak. I figured a couple of hours of grinding could get that 19 HP back.
But at the end of the day...the dual plane was having trouble feeding that many cubes as RPM climbed. Certainly we weren't getting a lot of extra airflow out of the Dominator yet. But since it was designed a larger version of the old 427/425 intake for 427's and 454's...I still think it was doing well feeding 100-128 more cubes. I've never tested a Stealth against a C454...but it would likely be similar.
You're going to go through the low RPM area in about a nano-second....so anything you can do to keep feeding it will help. The intakes both look pretty nice inside but a little work with a grinder could help. Remember..they weren't designed to feed that many cubes either..both are very old (but good) designs.
JIM
Both are well recognized intakes. You've got a lot of cubes so you'll be working both of them hard. Since you like to rev it a little and have a stick and 4.11's I'd go for the Strip Dominator.
That 555" I mentioned earlier was tested with a seriously professionally ported mega mega $$$ Vic Jr and a 1000 HP. Then we stuck a swap meet special out of the box ancient C-454 Edelbrock intake which I really like. (BTW- it will also go under a Vette hood as will a C427 and C400). It's a dual plane for a Dominator. We bolted an 1150 Dominator on it and ran it. At this stage the engine had a solid flat tappet in it with Dart 335 CNC heads. At the end of the day the Vic Jr made 755.7 HP@ 6500 and 685 LB FT at 5000 RPM. The dual plane made 739.6HP@6200 RPM and 673 LB FT at 5000 RPM.
At the same 6500 RPM the single plane peaked at, the dual plane was down "only 19 HP" which to me was actually very impressive considering the huge port mismatch and the fact we were already 300 RPM past it's peak. I figured a couple of hours of grinding could get that 19 HP back.
But at the end of the day...the dual plane was having trouble feeding that many cubes as RPM climbed. Certainly we weren't getting a lot of extra airflow out of the Dominator yet. But since it was designed a larger version of the old 427/425 intake for 427's and 454's...I still think it was doing well feeding 100-128 more cubes. I've never tested a Stealth against a C454...but it would likely be similar.
You're going to go through the low RPM area in about a nano-second....so anything you can do to keep feeding it will help. The intakes both look pretty nice inside but a little work with a grinder could help. Remember..they weren't designed to feed that many cubes either..both are very old (but good) designs.
JIM
10-12-2017, 11:26 AM
#105
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St. Jude Donor '05
x2 stick and 4.11 def do the strip dominator with a lil cleanup work
That stealth is a real nice dp to have around though. Decisions...
That stealth is a real nice dp to have around though. Decisions...
Last edited by cv67; 10-12-2017 at 11:28 AM.
10-12-2017, 12:23 PM
#106
You guys are no help! LOL. I was hoping to send one back and spend that money elsewhere on the build. But it might be fun to practice porting on the Holley and then dyno it against the out-of-box Weiand. I'd rather practice on the the manifold a bit before digging into my heads.
10-12-2017, 12:47 PM
#107
Melting Slicks
You guys are no help! LOL. I was hoping to send one back and spend that money elsewhere on the build. But it might be fun to practice porting on the Holley and then dyno it against the out-of-box Weiand. I'd rather practice on the the manifold a bit before digging into my heads.
Mike
10-12-2017, 12:57 PM
#108
OK, I'll put my 2 cents in. I would keep the Holley. Once you get tired of your power level, you can fully port your heads, port the Strip Dominator and move up to the next level. You could even have it modded like GoFast showed later. You shouldn't ever outgrow the Holley.
Mike
Mike
10-12-2017, 01:06 PM
#109
Melting Slicks
The problem is that the Holley is REALLY small where the plenum meets the runners. Each runner is only 2.7-2.9 sq in. and there's not much meat to open it up there. This cross-sectional area is smaller than the minimum cross-section in my Brodix 294s, so I'm not even fully working the heads at higher rpm with the Strip Dominator intake. By comparison, a Victor Jr. is much larger in this area of the runner but it won't fit under the hood.
Mike
10-12-2017, 03:14 PM
#110
10-12-2017, 03:23 PM
#111
Le Mans Master
I'm late to the party- I put an old Weiand Team G dual plane on my new 496. Seems to be OK so far. It looks a lot like the Stealth, but the plenum seems a little bigger from your pictures. I'm curious how much difference there will be between the two you have going.
10-13-2017, 12:20 AM
#112
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Here's our modified Vic Jr to fit under a C3 L-88 hood...and even then just barely made it with the L-88 screen.
This intake spent time on flowbench to get flow correct after the milling. Notice the difference in different divider walls on different cylinders.
JIM
This intake spent time on flowbench to get flow correct after the milling. Notice the difference in different divider walls on different cylinders.
JIM
Last edited by 427Hotrod; 10-13-2017 at 12:24 AM.
10-13-2017, 12:01 PM
#113
Wow that intake and motor look killer! Are those Hardin valve covers? I have them on my current motor and love them. I'm gonna try home porting my Strip Dominator and see if I like the end result. Did Wilson do that entire manifold for you?
10-13-2017, 02:58 PM
#114
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Yes...Hardin Marine. They clear booster well.
Yes....Wilson did the whole thing as part of a magazine project I did on that engine build. We knew the final version would be an intake to fit under the hood and the 1000HP carb...so we planned it that way.
JIM
Yes....Wilson did the whole thing as part of a magazine project I did on that engine build. We knew the final version would be an intake to fit under the hood and the 1000HP carb...so we planned it that way.
JIM
10-15-2017, 08:49 PM
#115
Since I have never done any hand port work myself before, I decided to give it a try on the Strip Dominator. I figured if I screwed it up, it would be the least expensive piece to replace. I did some work on the upper plenum this weekend. What do you think? Stop now? Keep going? Throw it in the trash?
Last edited by Neil B; 10-15-2017 at 08:50 PM.
10-16-2017, 11:51 PM
#117
I did some final sizing on the runner entrances tonight. The minimum runner cross-section averages at 2.89 Sq. In. with 11% variation from smallest to largest. This is a small cross-section for a big block single plane manifold, but it should allow the 515ci motor to make peak hp at 6,100 rpm (using 613 fps air velocity). The small cross-section should make good torque down low and the short runners will hopefully carry the hp past peak a bit. We'll see.
10-25-2017, 01:53 PM
#119
I received the camshaft. I went with a custom hydraulic roller from Bullet Cams. The cam is on a billet core with an Everwear distributor gear. It's a Gen VI step nose core and I've got the GM Performance cam retainer plate. I did not want to deal with cam buttons and end play on this build. I also started pulling the heads down. Overall they look really good. Guide clearance measured .0014 - .0017 on the intakes and .0015 -.0017 on the exhausts. Valvespring installed height was in the ballpark at 1.950(+ -), but I may re-shim a few of them.
On the heads, I think I'm going to just do a light cleanup. The plan is to take out any ridges at the valve seat/bowl area. I'm going to smooth out the CNC blend on the short side radius and also extend the CNC blend at the port entry. If I get brave, I might lightly profile the valve guide where it meets the bowl. I may also take out the small ridge between the CNC chamber and the valve.
On the heads, I think I'm going to just do a light cleanup. The plan is to take out any ridges at the valve seat/bowl area. I'm going to smooth out the CNC blend on the short side radius and also extend the CNC blend at the port entry. If I get brave, I might lightly profile the valve guide where it meets the bowl. I may also take out the small ridge between the CNC chamber and the valve.
Last edited by Neil B; 10-25-2017 at 01:56 PM.
10-25-2017, 07:49 PM
#120
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Neil, finally got pics of my Strip Dominator. No work on those dividers. All was first couple inches into the port from the head and the roofline.