mobird

Hey guys, I must be the most indecisive person when it comes to what I'm going to do with my car. A lot of it is due to the green stuff (money).


I have a 1979 4-speed. I started out by modifying the stock 350 (Brodix Aluminum heads, Lunati 268 cam, Performer RPM intake, tuned Quadrajet, etc...) which made a huge difference.


I then started looking into building a 406 because I wanted more power.


Then I scored a good deal on a machined 350 block so I decided I would build a nice 383 with a roller cam which should get me pretty close to where I want to be power wise (at least for now, I always want more)


But the problem is, I've always wanted fuel injection. The biggest pains with my car have been that my wife doesn't like driving it (she's a car person, but she appreciates modern cars where she doesn't feel like she always has to be checking the gauges to make sure everything is right, or warming it up a certain way, and she HATES the carb exhaust smell that gets all over her everytime she drives it) and that a lot of times it seems like more work than it's worth to fire it up and stink up the garage and house, and then wait for it to warm sufficiently enough before being able to drive it. Most morning I'd rather just hop in my truck and drive to work (now I sound like I'm getting old).


I could fuel inject a 383 with something like the Holley Sniper EFI, but then we are talking about roughly $2k for the 383 short block if I build it myself, and another $1500 or so for the Holley EFI (after the cost of converting my mechanical fuel pump setup to electrical).


On the other hand, I could get a Lq4 or LQ9 complete LS motor (6.0) for around $1k. Get the motor mount plates and trans adapter for $150, run an inline fuel pump and corvette filter/regulator for $300, get an Fbody intake/injector rail/ oil pan/harness for $400 (plus I could sell the stock truck parts that I swap out to nearly break even on that part) and then just sort out the wiring and accessories myself (I don't run A/C so all I have to figure out is power steering and alternator which should be easy). The 6.0 LS motor with a cam ($400) is well documented to make over 440hp, and with a swap to the LS3 heads (easily found) it can make over 500 hp.


So I could have my cake and eat it too. ~500 hp, fuel injection, reliability, my wife would drive it more, and it would cost (theoretically) less than a 383 and Holley Sniper setup. AND I can sell my current 350 to make some of the money back.


Thoughts?

jim2527

I'd buy a pre-made harness for the LS versus figuring it out yourself. The extra $$$ is worth it to avoid the hassle. I hate wiring....so maybe its just me.

Add a couple grand to that for incidentals.

bazza77

is that your car as your avatar ? looks like some nice hooker side-pipes which wont fit without welding mods .

are you going to leave the 4 speed in there . If yes then the speedo is good . But no provision for the Z bar on an LS block, aftermarket make one

If you have an electric tacho drive , now there's a little conversion box that will take care of that .

not trying to talk you out of it , just some things that you haven't listed .

I did it to my 77 , best thing I ever did I can just put my hand through the open window and it turns on straight away , no pumping the pedal , no fumes.

Torqued Off

I have put over 10,000 miles on my 77 4-speed, with a Quadrajet, and neither me nor my wife smells "carb exhaust smell", whatever that is, so not sure what is wrong with your car, but I would say there is something wrong. Secondly, not having enough patience to wait a few minutes for a car to warm up seems like a poor excuse to spend thousands of dollar on fuel injection, but its your money.

71 Vert LS1

I'm a big LS fan. LS swaps in a 79 Camaro, 67 Nova, 73 Z28, BMW 323 vert, 98 Wrangler and my current driver 71 Corvette. 68 C10 LS3 project in process.

I wouldn't consider building anything else but an LS. Turn the key and they start. Tuned properly even with a good cam no rich smell. Over 20 MPG with a medium size cam.

I think you are light on most of your pricing.

A $1000 6.0 liter is going to have a bunch a miles. A cam swap is a great idea but all but the smallest aftermarket cams require better springs and push rods.

The truck accessories, oil pan and complete intakes are worth about $100. I've got two sets that I struggle to get rid of.

LS6 intakes will not bolt onto LS3 heads. Older (2005) LQ4 and LQ9 are cathedral port. LS3 heads are rectangular port. You will need a LS3 intake. You will struggle to find a complete intake with injectors and sensors for $400. A buddy of mine has a 6.0 with LS3 heads, 225I 230E .600 lift cam thru a TKO 600 and he did 410 RWHP so a bit short of 500 FWHP but it's great driver.

Be careful if you start mixing and matching crank sensors (24-58) and knock sensors, cam sensors and such.

You will need complete fbody accessories. Oil pan, water pump, balancer, alt and power steering pump, idlers and brackets.

You can run an aftermarket bell housing that allows mechanical linkage. I did that on my Nova.

Not trying to push you back to the small block and the Sniper EFI. Hard to beat the fuel injected, roller rocker, roller cam, better heads and no leak all o-ring gasket LS engines.

Need any help PM me.

Corey_68

There are a LOT of hidden costs in the swap along with "while I'm at its"...

I have almost as much in miscellaneous costs as I do in the LS2 and 6speed. For instance, that "$400" cam will be more like $1,000 because you'll needed springs, pushrods, possibly lifters, and you'll certainly need it tuned.

At minimum go with some form of fuel injection. I will never own an automobile with a carb again, I'm ruined.

bluegtp

Definitely include money for "while I'm there" items. Mine consisted of aftermarket ac, new brake lines, new fuel setup (an hoses, 82 sending unit and pump, a few new gauges, washer fluid pump, new android screen, and so on.

I had a similar 383 sbc as you and after 10 years and having the th350 it was time for something new. After pricing around and figuring cost of head/cam swap on a junkyard LS1/2/3I ended up with a crate LS3/525 new with warranty. I did the aftermarket harness too. Don't forget tune for cam and deleting all the crap you don't need for your c3. Air intake setup, modifying exgaust and/or headers (I bought ls sidepipe headers). The stuff adds up quickly! I still say go for it.

I don't think I'll have any regrets though. Even if it costs a more save a little longer, research some more and then go after it!

mobird

Good points. I actually thought of those, just forget to list them.


I was thinking with the side pipes I could cut off the Small block exhaust flange, and weld on an LS exhaust flange and just move the small collector pipes to the new location....hopefully.


Keeping the 4-speed and just using an aftermarket adapter for the Z-bar


I have the stock Tach, but I also have an aftermarket digital tach I could potentially use.


Thanks for the insight!

Gordonm

As said above there is a ton of extras that really add up. A 1000 dollar LS motor is not going to give you 500 HP. Cam is needed as said above with extras. You will easily have 5K+ tied up into the LS swap.

I did a fuel injected Gen 1 and to get it to 500 HP the motor was peaky. It was streetable but not as smooth as a 500 HP LS. If you want a nice cruising 500 HP motor go with LS power.

mobird

Ha poorly worded on my part. Having driven quite a few LS cars and a couple different older carbureted muscle cars there is a night and day difference.


Fuel injection has many advantages, a couple of the big ones that matter to me: power under the curve (carbs can and do make the same max power as fuel injection when tuned right, but fuel injection makes more power under the curve in less than ideal conditions), less exhaust smell (with a fuel injected LS I can precisesly control the timing and A/F at all RPMs which eliminates a lot of the reason for strong exhaust smells: unburnt fuel, lean conditions, etc... which no matter how well you tune a carb, it is still less efficient than fuel injection and at different points is either using too much fuel or too little).


Not to mention the ease of starting and driving all day any day, and more reliable usable power. And better economy. I think I'm sold...

mobird

That is very helpful info, thanks!


I'm still mostly in the research phase. My prices were based off of some quick ebay and craigslist (and forum) searches to get a rough idea. I'm the type of person who does quite a bit of research before buying, so I'll definitely look into all that, and most likely PM you once I get going on this!


Thanks!

mobird

Good point. It's the nickel and dime stuff that will kill me.


I never thought I would care whether my car was fuel injected or not, but lately having driven a couple friends nice modern sports cars (LS2 GTO, C5 Corvette) I'm wanting to have my cake and eat it too. Old school styling with modern engine performance. Why not?

mobird

Thanks forthat!


Where did you get your sidepipe headers?

bazza77

I run all the original dash gauges in my 77 (original electric tacho), the Dakota digital convertor and oil pressure was by far the easiest part of the whole deal.

I had hookers on my sbc and would have done the welding change of flange but I had to run cats on it to get it registered otherwise ....

all it takes is $ I hope you get to do it

bluegtp

CIC. They're stainless steel, a little pricey but look nice. I had obx headers on the sbc and was tempted to modify them or a big block set. By the time I bought a decent enough welder or paid someone along with a set of flanges and a lot of time spent I think it was money well spent.

.......waiting for you to start the LS swap thread.

ignatz

I went carb'd with a 376/515 crate. Pricey, but starts instantly and is generally well behaved. Reason for carburetor was minimum mod's and I really didn't want to have to mess with the gas tank and throttle. This isn't exactly an endorsement over a fuel injected motor, but more just that the LS is a generational improvement over the old motors pretty much either way.

mobird

Sweet!


Thankfully I own a welder (though I'm not sure how good the penetration will be on that thick exhaust flange, so I might have a buddy with a better welder do it). I love my side pipes too much to get rid of them for the LS haha.


I will definitely make that thread and update my build thread when I get started! Got to get my finances in order first, would hate to pull my motor and start this, and not be able to finish it. Optimally I'd like to get the LS motor soon, and source the heads, cam, intake, injectors, and all other parts and have it ready to go before I pull my current motor, that way the vette isn't down for a ridiculously long time. It would be nice to still be able to drive it while I'm assembling parts for the swap!

mobird

I am not in any way knocking the gen 1 small block. I still really like the motor, and they can make great power too (though maybe not as easily as an LS or as reliably). I don't have any catalytic converters (side pipes) so any time the carb is at less than optimal running conditions (which is a good amount of the time, be it while warming up on a cold day, half choke, etc...) it smells up the garage pretty good. At least with EFI I can clear up a good amount of that smell just by having optimal ignition timing and A/F. Plus although I'm decent at working on carbs, I'm no pro tuner so I know all things being equal, a dyno-tuned EFI setup would work better than a carb.


And possibly the biggest overriding thing is that my wife has been having that itch to drive the vette more but really doesn't like having all these "rules" associated with driving it (pumping carb to start it, long warm up time before the choke is fully open, bad smells, hard to drive when not fully hot). If she could just reach in and start it like any other car, and not smell horrible when she gets out of it, she would drive it more. And we all know; Happy Wife Happy Life.

71 Vert LS1

I always try to build the project cars so I can hand my wife the keys and without any special instructions drive the car safely.

The LS I built for the 67 Nova was bored and stroked to 427 cubes. Mild cam and LS3 heads. RWHP was 490.Drove really nice. The only special instructions to my wife was when she was driving it was if you punch it at 60 mph it would break the rear wheels loose.

Good luck on your swap.

mobird

Ha! That is awesome. And that is the plan for this!


Thankfully my wife is a pretty talented driver when a car gets sideways and has a pretty good grasp of when it's getting too out of shape. So if I can get the car nice and reliable and easy to drive, she would love it. And I would love to have it easier for me to drive more often as well.


I realized today that most of the time when I want a thrilling ride and have the time/energy for it, I take the motorcycle more often than the vette. So I'd like the vette to be less of a hassle.