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Slowly moving toward the engine on my 69 project
The car is going to be modded and I am not going to sell it
(Famous last words)
That said, I do have the original 350/350 engine. I do not have the
room to keep the engine stored for future owners if that were ever to happen.
So I am left with a dilemma. Do I sell the original engine for next to nothing and get a crate engine, or do I modify and stroke the original, which would probably cost more than the crate?
It may be fun to actually build the engine myself. Looking to get at least 350 hp or more at the rear wheels
Not for anything but if you have an OEM 350/350, I would NOT sell it regardless of the money. I would rebuild the 350, bore it to 355, make some other mods and it will be much more powerful...Keep everything you remove...just my opinion...
I would not make an original 350/350 into a 383.......
Tough decision if you can't store the original engine.
It's a no-brainer to just drop in a turnkey fully assembled stroker crate engine to achieve your objective power output. A reasonably well built 383 rated at around 450hp will get you the desired 350+ rear wheel hp.
Dropping in a crate engine also means the car is off the road for minimal time. Buying a complete turnkey engine from a reputable supplier will also provide you some peace of mind regarding after sales warranty.
Depending on your skill level and access to facilities, and your desire level to do so, there is a lot to be gained from building a motor yourself. As long as you have the time and patience and a yearning to do it, it will give you the greatest satisfaction knowing exactly what components are installed and that you built it.
I figure if you have not got space to store your 350, you may also not have the space to build your own motor.
I vote for keeping the motor with the car. 383 cranks are readily available now. Get decent parts and build yourself a motor. ( I can show you what happens when you try to build a performance motor with a factory cast crank. )
I vote for keeping the motor with the car. 383 cranks are readily available now. Get decent parts and build yourself a motor. ( I can show you what happens when you try to build a performance motor with a factory cast crank. )
I believe that an L46 350/350 would have a forged Crank back in 1969, not cast......Heck, my 78 L-82 has a forged crankshaft......
Reads to me if you don't have the room to keep the original block you won't have the room to leave the car on jack stands while you build a stroker. You would be much happier just buying a crate stroker and swapping it in. To bad as a sbc once stripped down doesn't take much room and ways less than 200lbs. I got two 400 blocks I just roll around on their dolly's and I can roll them onto the side or end if I need to.
IIWM I would build the original block as I know how many options there with a sbc let alone a L46 with forged crank, 4 bolt main, large valve heads. While there are better aftermarket heads for less money than porting the original stock heads those stock heads have numbers matching value. If you haven't noticed C3 corvette values are picking up and are passing C4 values. A '69 350/350 is at a premium too other C3's - at least the small block C3's. I guess you have $25,000 car as is but losing the matching motor could hurt it considerably.
I guess what I'm saying is pickle that motor spraying oils into all the ports then tape them closed and bag it leaving it under a plastic tarp in the back yard. Them swap in a BluePrint stroker and have fun.
As I am coming to understand, my opinion goes opposite of the mainstream here.
I enjoy building things and you alluded that you may enjoy the build process. For me, there is a certain amount of pride of accomplishment in such a thing. My suggestion would be to stroke out the original motor.
At the end of the day its a smallblock 69. I mean no offense but it is not an ultra-rare model. Have fun with it...it's your car.
I agree with PainfullySlow. And I would put a stroker crank in it - no offense to jb78l82, but a stroker crank is free power and torque - it's virtually the same cost as machining your factory crank, and the engine will go a whole lot better, all else equal.
All these suggestions are fabulous.
Thanks so much for the input
To give you some background, I just had another bone stock restored 69 350/350 4 speed.
It was a wonderful car, and I got it so I would have something to drive while I worked on the project I am mentioning now.
However, it isn't what I am looking for in this build. This one will have a more racer them edge to it. Nasty in fact. Right now I have completely stripped the frame, had it powder coated, and I am building the suspension and other areas while the body is off and being worked on.
At some point the body is coming back and will take up additional space in the garage. There is a possibility I could store the engine but this is going to be a hot rod. No going back to stock
Pics below
Maybe I should start a thread on the build so I can remember what I have done. LOL
Not for anything but if you have an OEM 350/350, I would NOT sell it regardless of the money. I would rebuild the 350, bore it to 355, make some other mods and it will be much more powerful...Keep everything you remove...just my opinion...
I would not make an original 350/350 into a 383.......
Why not? You would suggest that he bore it to 355 but not stroke it to 383, as if making the bore bigger somehow makes it more valuable than stroking it?
NOT stroking it is leaving easy power on the table. Especially if he is hoping to get somewhere near 350 wheel HP (as he states) and wants to try to keep the stock heads.
OP if you have the room and desire, the building the stock motor into a 383 is a no brainer. It's like having your cake and eating it too: you get to keep the numbers matching block and heads in the car, and you get the horsepower you want.
As someone else said, I would get the stock heads ported and flowed to hopefully a respectable number to support the added cubic inches.
Why not? You would suggest that he bore it to 355 but not stroke it to 383, as if making the bore bigger somehow makes it more valuable than stroking it?
NOT stroking it is leaving easy power on the table. Especially if he is hoping to get somewhere near 350 wheel HP (as he states) and wants to try to keep the stock heads.
OP if you have the room and desire, the building the stock motor into a 383 is a no brainer. It's like having your cake and eating it too: you get to keep the numbers matching block and heads in the car, and you get the horsepower you want.
As someone else said, I would get the stock heads ported and flowed to hopefully a respectable number to support the added cubic inches.
Good luck!
Just what I would do...OP can do anything he wants. Boring a motor is standard procedure for a rebuild. Changing the OEM forged L46 crankshaft
And L-46 forged rods to a non stock 383 crank and rods although not something that can be seen more dramatically changes the basic characteristic of the OEM motor.
Of course, if the only goal is to maximize the power and no real interest in retaining any of the OEM components except those that can be seen then by all means bore and stroke away....
As for the comment that I see often from some (not you, BTW) that changing to a 383 crankshaft and 383 rods is roughly the same cost as reconditioning an OEM crank and OEM rods, I am not sure where that comes from since I did have my L-82 OEM forged crank and L-82 forged rods reconditioned for about 1/3 the price of a forged 383 crank and forged 383 rods....not sure where that comes from?
I am not against stroking 350's but do feel that some of the specialty 350's like the LT1/L46 and others, if me, I would not do. Again, I have said this many times, that identical built 355/383's, the 383 will make about 25ftlbs more torque across the useable RPM band, if they are built exactly the same...yes it is more but it is NOT a ton more. The real power money to me is in the 406/427 SBC motors, not the 383's.....Lots of time, money and effort if you don't need a new crank and rods...just my opinion, not gospel......Much of my thoughts are based on the outstanding results from my L-82 355 AFR heads, Roller crammed, 10.2:1 motor with max torque from 2,500-4,500 RPM that is used only on the street....but I did not need new rods or crankshaft....
I still think bag the OEM motor and just buy a crate 383........
gwgwgw... I have a '70 L46 and recently went through the same debate and thought process. In my case, I punched it to 355 and used the original forged crank (only needed a polish) and reconditioned the original pink rods, balanced, etc. Howards retro roller - not too big - I wanted a nice healthy cruiser and thought I'd keep it under control. I chose to clean up and sell the original heads and bolted on a set of Dart SHP aluminum heads (I wouldn't do that again - might go AFR or other... lots of screwing with valvetrain alignment on the SHP's). Anyhow, a set of newer technology heads out of the box will outflow most worked over camel hump heads...and the aluminum saves a LOT of weight... plus the advantage of getting away with a little more compression. I kept the numbers on the block and have a nice combo that runs on 91 pump gas.
Use the original block - stroke it if you want - I have in the past and now kind of wish I'd done that with this one. I wanted to keep it mild cruiser but am now doing the back half and gears, and wish I'd gone a step further with TQ and HP.
Like you, I (and many of us) enjoy the planning, disassembly, assembly, measuring and dyno time on the project. I wouldn't get that joy out of opening a crate. To each his own. I would use your original and get a good aftermarket stroker crank and use the 5.7 rods you have. Sell off the original heads and crank. With some cam you can easily surpass your HP goals and will have TQ to burn with a 383.
I blew my 350 and picked up a 383 with aluminum fast burn heads. Needed to get new headers and intake but well worth it. Transferred my origional water pump. When driving like a white man on the highway at 75 get 20mpg.
I don't understand this misconception that building the original engine is more expensive than a Crate Engine.... The people who think that or experienced it are not comparing apples to apples or got taken by an unethical builder.
I assure you that if you built the original engine to the spec and used the same level of parts in one of those cheap Crates it would be the same if not less money. A lot of advertised Crate Engines are just someone else's engine rebuilt. The GMPP stuff is new production built in Mexico.... There is a bunch of outright junk and very mediocre Crate Engines out there.
The benefit of having your engine built or an engine built for you is customization and one on one relationship with the builder. You can have the build tailored to exactly what you want or need. As long as you are working with a real Pro Engine builder there should be no issue getting what you want. The key is dealing with a real Pro.....
You should talk to any of the members here who have an engine from a real Pro builder..... Ask them if any crate could match the quality and performance of their engine for the same money.
I deal with this same stuff all the time in oval track racing.... guys look at the cost of running a GMPP Crate against a built engine from me and some buy the Crate... then get lapped first time out and spend more money having me or someone else cheat up the Crate to be competitive than they would have had in a really good built engine.
I see from your profile you are down near San Diego.... If you are willing to take your engine a few miles north to Santa Ana, I can put you in touch with an absolute legendary engine builder.
Will
Last edited by rklessdriver; 12-28-2017 at 09:37 AM.
I agree...I could not buy a crate 355 with my power and top line components for $5,000. Try and buy a crate 355 with 425+Gross HP at all and then for less than$5K with a Howards roller cam, AFR heads, JE forged racing pistons,etc? I picked my pistons, compression target, Aluminum cylinder heads, Roller cam specs for max torque on the street, ported the L-82 OEM aluminum intake, etc...great experience, good fun, would do it again in a second....
Reads to me if you don't have the room to keep the original block you won't have the room to leave the car on jack stands while you build a stroker. You would be much happier just buying a crate stroker and swapping it in. To bad as a sbc once stripped down doesn't take much room and ways less than 200lbs. I got two 400 blocks I just roll around on their dolly's and I can roll them onto the side or end if I need to.
IIWM I would build the original block as I know how many options there with a sbc let alone a L46 with forged crank, 4 bolt main, large valve heads. While there are better aftermarket heads for less money than porting the original stock heads those stock heads have numbers matching value. If you haven't noticed C3 corvette values are picking up and are passing C4 values. A '69 350/350 is at a premium too other C3's - at least the small block C3's. I guess you have $25,000 car as is but losing the matching motor could hurt it considerably.
I guess what I'm saying is pickle that motor spraying oils into all the ports then tape them closed and bag it leaving it under a plastic tarp in the back yard. Them swap in a BluePrint stroker and have fun.
Good luck.
I agree with keeping the original motor and modding it........You will definitely hurt the value of that 69.....I pulled the L-48 on my 73 but its a 73,no where near the value of a 69....
Make it easy on yourself.....Swap out the heads for a nice set of aluminum ones.....Get a cam to match the heads, good intake and free flowing exhaust...
If your 69 is really nice I wouldn't pull the motor...
you have the choice of keeping your original block,
and building it as good, or better than a crate motor,
yes ... it is more work, and more money.
but the end result to me is well worth the effort.
your choice, the lazy way - crate motor,
or the right way and retain the original block/numbers.
This is my original block and heads.
All Original on the outside, all new components on the inside, 430hp.
GW: As a long time lurker I can say that 350 RWHP w/iron heads will be difficult.
I don't see how the heads can flow enough to make that kind of power?
Even w/383 crank you have a hard task.
The only thing I can suggest is a 383 crank and serious headwork.
A HR cam will help and can't be seen.
Normally I would suggest more compression, but your iron heads will only handle so much.
12-27-2017, 05:01 PM
Modded original vs. crate 383?
