Capt. Shark

I'm certainly leaning in that direction

Torqued Off

It is not ignorant to know that China and Japan are not America, which is my point. Goodrich and Goodyear are companies founded in America, regardless of where the manufacturing is done now. That is what matters to me.

The Goodrich Corporation, formerly the B.F. Goodrich Company, was founded in Akron, Ohio in 1870 as Goodrich, Tew & Co. by Dr. Benjamin Franklin Goodrich.

The Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company was founded in 1898 by Frank Seiberling and based in Akron, Ohio.

But, this is a tire thread...not a political one. Just wanted to clarify comment.

Torqued Off

That is not going to happen with my 15 inch Goodrich tires no matter how much you or anyone thinks it will. The braking distance and traction exceed what is needed to drive the car responsibly on the street. And just to qualify, I drive the car 5000-6000 miles a year on Pennsylvania roads, and I push it in the curves......and there has never been a problem. I have done max performance braking, it stops quite fine from the speeds I drive. Could I drive faster with better performance tires....I have no doubt. But how fast is enough? For me, 65 mph is enough anywhere, and I only do that on the turnpike when I have to. I try to be a responsible driver on the street. Public highways are not meant to be your personal race course. If you drive so irresponsibly on the street that you need high performance tires to be safe, then maybe you should slow down and follow basic common sense driving habits. If you choose not to I hope the families of the people you kill with your irresponsible driving will be happy with you.

Again, this is a tire thread, not a lecture on responsibility. But I am just qualifying my statements. Any suggestion that Goodrich Radial T/A tires are not safe when driven responsibly on the street.....versus on a race track.....is B.S. If we are going to start down the path on safety, we can all name a long list of reasons why a C3 Corvette is not as safe as modern vehicles. Its apples and oranges, and nothing you can do with a C3 will make it as safe as a C7 or any other modern car.

If I was going to race my car on a track, I would obviously need to buy higher performance tires to be competitive, but I am not. If I could buy better 15 inch high performance tires, made in U.S.A, with white letters that represent American history on the American icon called a Corvette, maybe I would?? But they don't exist. What I wish would happen is either Goodyear, Firestone or Goodrich would manufacture a higher performance 15 inch tire, unfortunately, the market does not support it. Once the Goodrich Radial T/A tires are no longer available, I will have no choice left and will have to compromise.

See 3

Oh yeah, forgive me, the Chinese are so much more ethical and honest than the Japanese when it comes to their business philosophy and practices.

roscobbc

Our C3's are 40 to 50 years old and use an tyre size that was designed about the same period. This was fine and perfectly adequate in 'the day'. Tyre, damping and handling standards have improved significantly over the last 20 or 30 years. OK, those who wish to use period correct rubber can carry on - and hope to drive within the capabilities of the tyres fitted. Unfortunately other factors may not always allow you to do this. Everything else in automotive terms has moved-on since our cars were produced and the added handling, traction and braking improvements of a sensibly selected modern tyre (irrespective of how we drive as individuals) could mean the difference between life and death on today's crowded roads if forced to do emergency braking or swerving to avoid a collision.

Torqued Off

This is my last post to you on this subject since you are convinced that a car is not safe without high performance tires, and apparently cannot read what others write and make reasonable interpretations and distinctions of others points. I think I made some reasonable distinctions and clarifications in my previous post, which you apparently cannot understand. Maybe you should read it again. In any case, no point in further discussion.

Just as a reminder.....cars in 1977 actually went down the road at 55 mph, just like they do today, and there was just as much traffic on the roads then. Time has not changed this. My car with these tires on it are quite capable of emergency braking and swerving when going down the road at 55 mph in today's traffic, just as they did in 1977. I disagree that without high performance 17 or 18 inch tires that I my car is unsafe on 2018 roads and traffic.

Capt. Shark

Valid point. My 79 with factory wheels goes down the freeway just fine at 75 and comes up my mountain likes it's on rails. But if I can actually improve that by going to 17" wheels and aren't concerned about the period correct look than that's the direction I'm leaning.

Torqued Off

That's absolutely cool. We are all free to make our cars into what we want them to be. My only point, that seems to be very difficult to get across to some, is that 15 inch BF Goodrich Radial T/A tires are as safe as they need to be when driven responsibly on public highways. I have acknowledged and believe that modern 17 and 18 inch hi performance tires are BETTER than my tires for high speed driving and race tracks. I have also acknowledged that I enjoy spirited driving, and modern 17 and 18 inch tires would improve that. But for many, we don't need all that extra performance and other things are more important.

That balanced viewpoint seems really hard to get across to junior race-boys, and they love to start implying my tires are "unsafe". And I disagree. Its that simple, nothing more. If I thought these tires were "unsafe" I would be irresponsible in continuing to drive on them, and so would all the other thousands of classic car owners who drive on them. And maybe......BF Goodrich's legal department would consider stop manufacturing them....but they still are....so that also validates my opinion.

lionelhutz

I find it rather ironic when someone goes on and on about no-one acknowledging their point yet at the same time they steadfastly refuse to acknowledge anyone else's point. And they do it to the point of twisting everyone else'ss into meaning something different.

If better high performance tires will outperform low performance tires on a track, then they will also perform better on the street if called upon during an emergency panic maneuver.

I'm VERY convinced my upgraded tires helped save my car when I was cut off while doing about 40mph. This happened on a public 50mph limit highway while doing about 40mph, which means it was not a track and it was not reckless high speed driving.

You can be as careful as you want when driving, but you can't stop the other drivers from doing stupid things.

SHIFT A

Dynra Rockets

I hear that a lot.... "I don't need a V rated tire because I never do 100 mph".

A high rated tire (V,Z,W, etc) gets its rating primarily from the stiffer sidewall construction. The benefit of high rated tires is not the ability to sustain a high MPH but the crisp steering response and improved/predictable low speed handling from it.

Another thing to add is that tire rubber is good for X number of heat cycles before it starts to get hard. Many people will put new tires on and say how much better they are. Usually that is not so much from the different construction/speed rating, but rather there is fresh soft rubber under them.

At a class I took in the 80's the instructor for chassis setup said "The 4 most important things to change to get a car to handle better are right front, right rear, left front and left rear".

Torqued Off

OK you win. It is unsafe to drive a C3 Corvette on the streets with 15 inch Goodrich Radial T/A tires. I will most likely be killed soon, so.....

Since I now have been educated on how unsafe my stock 77 Corvette is, I am looking for replacement wheels and tires online now. I am also looking now into putting air bags in the car, both in the steering wheel, and some cool T-Top air bags. Its also important to get anti-skid brakes....does anyone know if they are available from Zip? I will also be welding up a compete 4130 steel roll cage around the car, especially in those fiberglass doors....that steel piece won't cut it in a side impact. Did you know that on chrome bumper cars, there is almost zero impact protection with those cosmetic rear bumpers...so rear impact results in a fireball due to unprotected gas tank with nothing but fiberglass between the guy who hit you and 17 gallons of gas. I am buying a die grinder at Lowes today....that visor mount on my car would kill me in a front impact when the seat belts don't prevent my head from smashing forward into it. Its gotta go.

Thanks for enlightening me that my 77 Corvette is not as safe on the streets as a modern car. I think I just pissed myself in fear from what I exposed myself to. Maybe I should just sell this piece of **** and buy a C7. What do you think?

lionelhutz

Keep twisting....

I'm not making up some theoretical crap, I actually did it and barely made if through without damage to the car. I did some maneuvers at a safe location to compare the tires and am very certain that still having the BFG's would have resulted in a wreck or ending up in the ditch. By having avoided the collision none of that ridiculousness you're going on about became a problem.

JBrooke825

Sort of makes you wonder who was behind the beginning of this
Argument?
BFG 800
Firestone wide oval 1200
Goodyear wide oval 1500
17” Goodyear 800
Wheels TTT. 900
The Firestone’s are brand new but does that mean new
Technology or just a new old fashioned tire?
Hard to know. BFG are looking better and better.

roscobbc

Picture a situation, say some 60+ plus years ago and listening-in on a conversation between the the owner of a relatively new '55 or '57 Chevy, or Ford (in fact it doesn't matter what make the car if - just say its a 'new' car) fella pulls in his '27 Model T. Remember that his Model T is still 'only' 30 years older or than the '55 or '57, and younger (then) than most most of our cars now. Owner of said Model T espouses about how good his car handles, how good the brakes are and (with a Freeway just down the way) how well it performs on faster roads and keeps up with modern traffic - and stops quick enough when needed............is all this sounding a bit familiar?

Torqued Off

No, its not the same. And I am so glad you wrote this comparison, as I was hoping someone would.

I have driven a Model T, and the handling and brakes would NOT be acceptable to me on modern highways, and actually would be nearly unsafe.

When Chevrolet put the disc brakes on the Corvette, it was leading edge at the time. Many still say that the brakes are very effective. Same with the tires, when the cars were built, these Goodrich Radial T/A's were the best you could get.

Here is the difference in what you thought was a clever analogy,....but was not. The highways and roads of America in 1977 were very similar to what they are today. Speed limits are very similar, and as I have stated multiple time, my argument is based on driving responsibly on the streets, not high speed driving or race track driving. So, the technology, i.e. brakes and handling of a C3 Corvette were adequate for the responsible speeds and driving in 1977,......and they are in 2018.

The difference between the highways and speed limits when the Model T was built and driven were not what they are today.

Get it?

Torqued Off

Apparently you missed my point in identifying all the other ways in which a C3 Corvette is not as safe as a modern car....but apparently you missed it. Your one step toward more safety is way short of making the car truly safe.

I have stated many times in this thread that high performance tires are better than Radial T/A tires....but apparently you missed that too. And your high performance tires may have saved your life....this time. What if someone pulled out in front of you and you still didn't have room to maneuver.....does that then make your high performance tires not good enough? Hmmmmm.....I guess then you will have to make another high performance step up. Its a very poor example. In the same scenario, would my 2015 F150 truck been able to maneuver to safety....I think not.

I will say one last time, and then I have had enough of this back and forth.......driving a C3 Corvette with 15 inch Goodrich Radial T/A tires today on our highways and road, when driven responsibly is safe. It will not prevent every possible accident scenario....but our cars are so UNSAFE by many other definitions that it all comes down to drawing a line between fear and practical risk. You suggest my tires are too risky. I disagree.

End.

jb78L-82

Correct!

The speed rating for tires driven on the street is not really relevant to the tire's speed rating. ALL MY CARS including my daughter's DD grand prix have Z Rated (W/Y rated, 168/186 MPH) tires simply because the tire construction is MUCH STRONGER than a BFG TA/Cooper Cobra/MT S/T rated, tire not because anyone drives at those speeds on the street/highway. PLUS, the UHP tires simply offer more traction for stopping in the dry/wet and offer superior handling/steering response.

I am always surprised at how much misinformation surrounds this whole tire issue with ultra high performance tires. Downside, they will always wear faster than super hard rubber like the aforementioned mass market "performance" tires.

AirBusPilot

I reread this thread just to check..and no one ever said a BFG radial TA is unsafe. You seem to have created that straw man argument to make a point that that tire is safe in normal driving, and go further to chastise anyone wanting a better, modern hi performance tire as unnecessary while driving within the speed limits of our roads. In other words, anyone driving fast enough to warrant a modern hi performance tire is driving irresponsible.

The point I, and others are making is that you don’t have to drive irresponsible to enjoy the added cornering, braking and comfort of modern tires. And, with those advantages, a modern hi performance tire is more safe..at any speed. But, again, no one stated a BFG radial TA is unsafe. I think you can understand the difference.

And, if any of us DO drive faster than legally allowed, the modern tires create a larger envelope of safety not available with a low tech tire.

Torqued Off