Opinions On Going Aluminum Block?
01-09-2018, 01:01 PM
#21
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2003
Location: St. Charles Mo
Posts: 2,655
Likes: 0
Received 104 Likes
on
49 Posts
CI 5 & 8 Veteran
Yep, 
Not my first rodeo. 
Let me say this first, Its not going to be a serious drag car. More for road race and street. Just my idea of what I always wanted being an old school BB retired hobbyists.Just completed RideTech suspension, and waiting for beefed up 3.70 rear and half shafts. The in process fiberglass work you see on jack compartment was a result of a launch with old beefed up 427 and 4.11's that are now sitting on a stand.
Bullshark
01-09-2018, 02:59 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
Follow up!
I have the Gen 1- 075 Bow tie Wet Sump SB and set my Mains up at .0018 and my rear bearing clearance at .0025! I shift it at over 7K.
The iron engines I have built, I set up at .0025 on the mains and .0030 on the rear!
I have the Gen 1- 075 Bow tie Wet Sump SB and set my Mains up at .0018 and my rear bearing clearance at .0025! I shift it at over 7K.
The iron engines I have built, I set up at .0025 on the mains and .0030 on the rear!
The block I have will support 800hp, but I went Conservative on the first install at around 525hp! I am going up to over the 600hp range next (all old school- 140 Cam, 1.6 SS roller rockers, 2.055 intakes, Bow tie air gap single plane, 285cfm flow on older Bow tie Phase 6 heads!
Here it is, when I first got it prior to install (all shiny and new!!)
The two piece cover on the front is from Bo-Laws! It sure was pretty when I had it sitting in the Living room!Ps this is my C2 Car stuff! I still run a Bow tie Iron block and Bow tie heads in my C3. I just have a very well running 30-30, max ported heads, a single plane Tarantula, in the Blue one!
The two piece cover on the front is from Bo-Laws! It sure was pretty when I had it sitting in the Living room!Ps this is my C2 Car stuff! I still run a Bow tie Iron block and Bow tie heads in my C3. I just have a very well running 30-30, max ported heads, a single plane Tarantula, in the Blue one!Adam
01-09-2018, 08:47 PM
#25
Race Director
Member Since: Jan 2000
Location: Corsicana, Tx
Posts: 12,607
Received 1,875 Likes
on
913 Posts
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
C2 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
2017 C2 of Year Finalist
Bullshark....is that YOU??????
Wow...haven't seen you around in a while!!
JIM
Wow...haven't seen you around in a while!!
JIM
01-09-2018, 08:53 PM
#26
Race Director
Member Since: Jan 2000
Location: Corsicana, Tx
Posts: 12,607
Received 1,875 Likes
on
913 Posts
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
C2 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
2017 C2 of Year Finalist
Sucker ran like a son of a gun!!
I sold them to a buddy who ran them a few years and one cracked and leaked water. Had a shop try to weld them and they messed it up worse. Now just have one good one left!
That had to have been cool with a #140 cam in it. Love that cam. Sounds wicked!
JIM
01-09-2018, 09:57 PM
#27
Team Owner
I had an old set of Bowtie Phase 6 heads. They were hand ported a gazzilion years ago by Air Flow Research before they began seriously making heads. Mine had 2.10 Intakes and 1.625 exhausts. 55cc chambers. I put them on a cast piston (sumps!) 350. Had to use a die grinder to clearance the pistons for the valves!. Used an LT-1 cam with 1.6 rockers.
Sucker ran like a son of a gun!!
I sold them to a buddy who ran them a few years and one cracked and leaked water. Had a shop try to weld them and they messed it up worse. Now just have one good one left!
That had to have been cool with a #140 cam in it. Love that cam. Sounds wicked!
JIM
Sucker ran like a son of a gun!!
I sold them to a buddy who ran them a few years and one cracked and leaked water. Had a shop try to weld them and they messed it up worse. Now just have one good one left!
That had to have been cool with a #140 cam in it. Love that cam. Sounds wicked!
JIM
They do have one of the tightest combustion chambers! I also like that they were the first true swirl port heads engineered! They basically except for the Iron Bow ties, the Phase 6s were the very best 23 degree standard port location heads ever made by GM Performance! True vintage!
I had Valley Heads do mine! I have walked the swap meet looking for a cheap used one to cut, to evaluate the side profile of the ports! I think I am out to the max, without compromising the wall strength! I got the new 140 cam from the Grumpy Jenkins sale! I have a set of low mile Traco rebuild Brownfields that came by way of supposively Team Penske, I had two Z-28s, but never got those cars to the build level I had planned!! And then the Bow tie Units are pushed out to slightly over 300cfms! I have some ported ole Skool 461s that I reminisce about that were run with a Racer Brown cam, under a cross ram! I loved running into the unsuspecting Big Block or New car on the street! I am trying to have a fun mid-life crisis with all of this fun hot rod stuff!II got the bug bad, as evidenced by one of my t-shirts related to one such place I used to hang out at with Travers! I was one of the few young guys he tolerated!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 01-09-2018 at 10:38 PM.
01-09-2018, 10:16 PM
#28
Team Owner
01-10-2018, 10:15 PM
#30
Yep, Not my first rodeo. Let me say this first, Its not going to be a serious drag car. More for road race and street. Just my idea of what I always wanted being an old school BB retired hobbyists.Just completed RideTech suspension, and waiting for beefed up 3.70 rear and half shafts. The in process fiberglass work you see on jack compartment was a result of a launch with old beefed up 427 and 4.11's that are now sitting on a stand.
Bullshark
01-10-2018, 11:20 PM
#32
ive got a couple ''588'' BBC engs,dyno time only,new dart pro1 alum heads,merlin iron blocks,cola cranks,roller cams,,pump gas ,1250 dom carbs,with more HP then you will ever use
01-11-2018, 10:29 AM
#33
Safety Car
Thread Starter
calwldlife:
I like cubic inches, especially in a naturally aspirated build. I just look at it as easy horsepower, I definitely want this build to be at least 540 cubic inches. My buddy put the screws to me the last time around when he found out I was building a 468 big block he sent his 351W back and got a 514 Cobra Jet motor for his Mustang. His was a little faster than mine (he was turning around 121mph down the 1/4 w/ automatic...mine was turning around 118mph w/ stick shift), you get rid of his extra cubes and that race all of the sudden becomes much closer. That bigger cube motor still resonates in my memory to this day lol....I need to make sure that doesn't happen again
.
Jim:
That's not a bad idea, I was just worried about bore distortion with going too big on the bore. If you don't think it will be an issue then I guess it's a case of take as much as you can get. I am thinking I want to stick with 4.25" stroke though. I was looking at the .903 lifter deal, I just don't want to get so far away from "home base" that everything starts to become too complicated for me. For better or worse I am building this one too lol, so the simpler the better.
Bullshark:
What heads did you end up going with if you don't mind me asking?
Jebby:
Thank you for the information. Like I mentioned to Jim, for better or worse I will be building this motor too so the more basic the better. I was going to have it built considering the amount of money that will be tied up in it, I can't afford to fail. The more I thought about the idea of having an engine built for me the less I liked it. Half the fun is planning and assembly. I just want to try to keep it as basic as possible, make some nice power and have an engine that I will enjoy.
I like cubic inches, especially in a naturally aspirated build. I just look at it as easy horsepower, I definitely want this build to be at least 540 cubic inches. My buddy put the screws to me the last time around when he found out I was building a 468 big block he sent his 351W back and got a 514 Cobra Jet motor for his Mustang. His was a little faster than mine (he was turning around 121mph down the 1/4 w/ automatic...mine was turning around 118mph w/ stick shift), you get rid of his extra cubes and that race all of the sudden becomes much closer. That bigger cube motor still resonates in my memory to this day lol....I need to make sure that doesn't happen again
.Jim:
That's not a bad idea, I was just worried about bore distortion with going too big on the bore. If you don't think it will be an issue then I guess it's a case of take as much as you can get. I am thinking I want to stick with 4.25" stroke though. I was looking at the .903 lifter deal, I just don't want to get so far away from "home base" that everything starts to become too complicated for me. For better or worse I am building this one too lol, so the simpler the better.
Bullshark:
What heads did you end up going with if you don't mind me asking?
Jebby:
Thank you for the information. Like I mentioned to Jim, for better or worse I will be building this motor too so the more basic the better. I was going to have it built considering the amount of money that will be tied up in it, I can't afford to fail. The more I thought about the idea of having an engine built for me the less I liked it. Half the fun is planning and assembly. I just want to try to keep it as basic as possible, make some nice power and have an engine that I will enjoy.
Last edited by bence13_33; 01-11-2018 at 11:45 AM.
01-11-2018, 11:15 AM
#34
7th Gear
Member Since: Jan 2018
Location: Cape Town/Mainz
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
go alu
Please apologize for my first post where I jump right in. I had 465 cui ally in one of my cars in the 90s and aside from saving weight (and the cool factor) I also experienced much better cooling (the cool factor!?)
The motor had "only" 610 Nm of torque at 1.500 rpm and 710 Nm at 4.100. I kept the revs under 6.500.
I used a solid roller cam, because the motor had restrictors in, with .600 lift because that was the maximum the springs I had would allow for. (the Chevy springs, forgot the PN)
It was a mechanical roller Comp Cam which gave me .600 lift with 1.8 ratio (I had those in the drawer) CR was only approx. 9:1, because I used the 496 pistons but only 427 stroke crank/rods. Sorry: Bore was 4.44" and heads were GM, fully ported as for the M8F they came from and a Weiand open plenum intake with a annular booster 850 Holley.
Power was 555 hp (DIN) which is close your 700 SAE (or slightly less, don't intend to start this debate).
What I am adding here as input is: I had no fancy components in the motor. And I would build it exactly the same again - 25 years later.
A 540 cui with the same cam would bring the torque to 850 Nm?
The motor had "only" 610 Nm of torque at 1.500 rpm and 710 Nm at 4.100. I kept the revs under 6.500.
I used a solid roller cam, because the motor had restrictors in, with .600 lift because that was the maximum the springs I had would allow for. (the Chevy springs, forgot the PN)
It was a mechanical roller Comp Cam which gave me .600 lift with 1.8 ratio (I had those in the drawer) CR was only approx. 9:1, because I used the 496 pistons but only 427 stroke crank/rods. Sorry: Bore was 4.44" and heads were GM, fully ported as for the M8F they came from and a Weiand open plenum intake with a annular booster 850 Holley.
Power was 555 hp (DIN) which is close your 700 SAE (or slightly less, don't intend to start this debate).
What I am adding here as input is: I had no fancy components in the motor. And I would build it exactly the same again - 25 years later.
A 540 cui with the same cam would bring the torque to 850 Nm?
01-11-2018, 04:57 PM
#36
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2003
Location: St. Charles Mo
Posts: 2,655
Likes: 0
Received 104 Likes
on
49 Posts
CI 5 & 8 Veteran
We opted for the Super Victor intake. It's not an EFI intake but we will machine it for the shorty injectors angled in about 15 degrees so as to provide for a more direct spray on the intake valves. A low profile fuel rail will need to clear the custom base needed to seal to the L-88 Hood chamber. =
Last edited by Bullshark; 01-11-2018 at 05:02 PM.
The following users liked this post:
cardo0 (01-12-2018)
01-11-2018, 05:11 PM
#37
Safety Car
Thread Starter
bullshark:
Sweet, that's a pretty wicked set of heads you got there. I'm pretty much sold on the aluminum block after those pictures. I just need to decide which manufacturer to go with and I then have my starting point. Thank you for the pictures, sometimes just seeing what you have in mind helps calm any worries.
Thank you for everyone that contributed, the help was much appreciated.
Sweet, that's a pretty wicked set of heads you got there. I'm pretty much sold on the aluminum block after those pictures. I just need to decide which manufacturer to go with and I then have my starting point. Thank you for the pictures, sometimes just seeing what you have in mind helps calm any worries.
Thank you for everyone that contributed, the help was much appreciated.
The following users liked this post:
cardo0 (01-12-2018)
01-11-2018, 05:21 PM
#39
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
Posts: 18,350
Received 767 Likes
on
549 Posts
calwldlife:
I like cubic inches, especially in a naturally aspirated build. I just look at it as easy horsepower, I definitely want this build to be at least 540 cubic inches. My buddy put the screws to me the last time around when he found out I was building a 468 big block he sent his 351W back and got a 514 Cobra Jet motor for his Mustang. His was a little faster than mine (he was turning around 121mph down the 1/4 w/ automatic...mine was turning around 118mph w/ stick shift), you get rid of his extra cubes and that race all of the sudden becomes much closer. That bigger cube motor still resonates in my memory to this day lol....I need to make sure that doesn't happen again .
Jim:
That's not a bad idea, I was just worried about bore distortion with going too big on the bore. If you don't think it will be an issue then I guess it's a case of take as much as you can get. I am thinking I want to stick with 4.25" stroke though. I was looking at the .903 lifter deal, I just don't want to get so far away from "home base" that everything starts to become too complicated for me. For better or worse I am building this one too lol, so the simpler the better.
Bullshark:
What heads did you end up going with if you don't mind me asking?
Jebby:
Thank you for the information. Like I mentioned to Jim, for better or worse I will be building this motor too so the more basic the better. I was going to have it built considering the amount of money that will be tied up in it, I can't afford to fail. The more I thought about the idea of having an engine built for me the less I liked it. Half the fun is planning and assembly. I just want to try to keep it as basic as possible, make some nice power and have an engine that I will enjoy.
I like cubic inches, especially in a naturally aspirated build. I just look at it as easy horsepower, I definitely want this build to be at least 540 cubic inches. My buddy put the screws to me the last time around when he found out I was building a 468 big block he sent his 351W back and got a 514 Cobra Jet motor for his Mustang. His was a little faster than mine (he was turning around 121mph down the 1/4 w/ automatic...mine was turning around 118mph w/ stick shift), you get rid of his extra cubes and that race all of the sudden becomes much closer. That bigger cube motor still resonates in my memory to this day lol....I need to make sure that doesn't happen again
.Jim:
That's not a bad idea, I was just worried about bore distortion with going too big on the bore. If you don't think it will be an issue then I guess it's a case of take as much as you can get. I am thinking I want to stick with 4.25" stroke though. I was looking at the .903 lifter deal, I just don't want to get so far away from "home base" that everything starts to become too complicated for me. For better or worse I am building this one too lol, so the simpler the better.
Bullshark:
What heads did you end up going with if you don't mind me asking?
Jebby:
Thank you for the information. Like I mentioned to Jim, for better or worse I will be building this motor too so the more basic the better. I was going to have it built considering the amount of money that will be tied up in it, I can't afford to fail. The more I thought about the idea of having an engine built for me the less I liked it. Half the fun is planning and assembly. I just want to try to keep it as basic as possible, make some nice power and have an engine that I will enjoy.
01-11-2018, 06:30 PM
#40