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Racing stuff-rear mounting front brake calipers

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Old 01-12-2018, 12:33 PM
  #61  
redvetracr
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Originally Posted by Pop Chevy
Redvet- SVRA ? I have held an SVRA competition license for the last 5 yrs. I've raced at Indy twice, Homestead, Pocono, Summit Point, Nelsons, and have run hundreds of laps at PIRC. I had to quit 2 yrs ago because of cancer treatment and I foolishly sold the fastest car I ever drove. I made it, now my strength is coming back and I am itching to get back behind the wheel. Now I'm curious, have you raced in the last 5 yrs??

TC, that was a good read on vehicle dynamics. Well put.

i guess what I should have asked was have you been to a SVRA race or the July Road America race in the last 5 years to look at gr-6 Corvettes because what we all did 40 years ago in A/P -B/P doesn`t cut it anymore and hasn`t for a very long time, but to answer your question Sept 06 was my last race which I won, I ran my car in 36 vintage races, I have six overall wins in gr-6 at Road America and a fast lap there of 2:25.0 having only 1 DNF for a blown motor, the pic below is from the 2005 BRIC (yes the year of "the crash") in a 58 car field I qualified 3rd.
Old 01-12-2018, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by redvetracr
i guess what I should have asked was have you been to a SVRA race or the July Road America race in the last 5 years to look at gr-6 Corvettes because what we all did 40 years ago in A/P -B/P doesn`t cut it anymore and hasn`t for a very long time, but to answer your question Sept 06 was my last race which I won, I ran my car in 36 vintage races, I have six overall wins in gr-6 at Road America and a fast lap there of 2:25.0 having only 1 DNF for a blown motor, the pic below is from the 2005 BRIC (yes the year of "the crash") in a 58 car field I qualified 3rd.
They all are mostly cheating! I still have a bug, to maybe do it, as I am really really cheating now also! I don't have a roller cam motor, but my Aluminum block is more Vintage correct internally than what most of them are using and them with their raised runner stuff (Dart, AFRs, etc), etc. The Duntov Motor guy has built out a number of event ringer cars! I can't touch his lightweight Grand Sport, but I could kick the crap out of some of his customer builds, but not all of them! I just can't from the accident and my disabilities, get the current build plans done! It is turning more into a dream, than finishing the latest rendition all out Vintage race build! I got my mag center outer rims done and fixed those Jongbloeds (Redvetracer had a set for sell, and I tried to contact him to buy them, but he sold to I think some Aussie guys prior to me contacting him), but now want to go down to an 8.5 for the fronts from 10 inch, because I went deeper on the rear offset. And I am going to mount the less radical prettier real original Thumper flares I have onto the car designed for the 8.5s and get rid of the 10 inches up front only, keeping the 10 inch mag center three piece modulates in the back! But that causes me to lose ground on those guys!! I bought a brand new Super 10 diff, I am polishing the cage for the 12 bolt Eaton posi unit. I have been fitting chromoly tubes and bending for my newest rollcage! I therefore highly recommend the JD Square a model 32 tube bender for home! Ps I always wanted a purple metallic flake Corvette, so because I don't want to go back to the racing day banana yellow it wore and I have two Riverside red ones now, and I might return the C3 to stock color for max value to do the deal with the brother! My good C2 is getting House of Color purple! I am struggling on the flake and Pearl, because the flakes even though translucent but in differing color tones, would alter the color. It looks like I have to go pearl, but then can't get the size flakes I want! I am going to spray out the L88 hood and put the black Owen Corning dashes on it to test the color by getting a quart! Purple is one of the prettiest colors, but rarely put on any cars! I don't get it! I want to paint the roundels permanent too, but paint no numbers on! So been sitting in wheelchair (convenient tool to still own from major accident), with xacto blade scraping paint layers!

Last edited by TCracingCA; 01-13-2018 at 05:32 AM.
Old 01-12-2018, 04:01 PM
  #63  
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Sorry Red, I misunderstood. Yes, I went to Indy last yr (just to be nebby) for the Group 6 race and the ProAm race and to see some old friends. Yep, I saw some rule bending on the front runners but saw a lot or cars that were legal and just like in the 70's. So
I feel sure I can find someone to dance with. I also found out later a couple cars were disqualified ! I am not fooling myself that I can run up front for a win being that I am not super healthy and rich. I just wanna have some fun before I'm done !! I just love going fast, it's an addiction.

Oh yea, I remember seeing pics of the big crash you guys had. A lot great cars got pretty beat up.

TC I love metalflake !!! Giterdone ! I went with chromoly for my cage also trying to make the car light as possible. I'm not going to spring for superlite wheels till I see if I can still drive this thing. Or should I say, still drive a racecar.

Yea, I know we are way off topic, but it's been a good discussion.
Old 01-13-2018, 04:51 AM
  #64  
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Yea, I know we are way off topic, but it's been a good discussion.

Not at all, I am really enjoying your posts guys ! Please tell us more about your mods. Thanks.
Old 01-13-2018, 05:46 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by roscobbc
I have a question - and straight 'off the top of my head". My late father in-law ran an early RR Shadow. I was always impressed with the braking on these cars - especially the dual calipers on the front end.
So my question is ~ is it feasible to do this this conversion AND keep stock caliper location? - theoretically a simple method of doubling-up on braking surface - OK, so the cooling issues still remain (and probably worse) under race conditions - yeah, unsprung weight will increase, I'm guessing not 'legal' for racing.........but for street use?
I think our stock rotors are pure junk stock in our cars! I $hit canned them and mine were drilled (but fracturing) and sourced from Coleman racing a Heavier Duty but directional cooling vanes unit (not straight vanes) and with aluminum hubs and naturally slotted! With these modern brake pads, you can generate whatever brake torque you want! You do need to be careful on too much pad surface area, on our sized rotors, as the heat is a killer! If you can cool it, then no problem run more pad surface area! And I don't see the realistic benefit to running dual calipers! Good ole Bryant and Nichols (RIP- late 2017 and still a very mysterious man! Was he CIA?, prior to being a race car designer and Owner, I last saw and talked to him up at the Monterey Reunion there with one of his DN-4 cars), but both were engineers of the TI-22 and subsequent Shadow cars and for endurance, more surface pad area will extend brake life, as you are distributing the friction over a larger surface area! On our cars, it would end up more gimmick and show, than practical!Ps I now want a water sptizer system on my rear rotors! Give them a little quirt!

Last edited by TCracingCA; 01-13-2018 at 06:01 AM.
Old 01-14-2018, 09:04 AM
  #66  
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Mounting the caliper in the back half of the rotor is not something new, as they did it back in the 70's for the very same reason you are doing it, to get additional cooling to the CENTER of the rotor. Many, if not most of the front running Grp 6 cars have relocated the caliper and it does make a difference in pedal longevity. There are also a couple of other things you could/should be doing to maximize your pedal. 1. Most guys are running the "endurance" caliper and that is basically running a spacer between the two halves of the caliper which allows you to run the thicker pads which help with heat insulation/transfer to the pistons. 2. They are running titanium or equivalent pistons and insulators which also makes a big difference. 3. they are running aftermarket 2 piece front rotors (which is legal) on the front and replace the stock rotors, which are fine on the rear, but do not hold up great on the front due the increased heat. 4. Have big brake (3inch) ducts to the center of the rotor which the biggest reason you are mounting the calipers in the rear anyways. 5. Use a high temp brake fluid like AP. If it were me I would also not use any sort of backing plate unless you are using it for a mounting of the ducting to the center of the rotor. 6.Optional: although it really helps, you can use the stock master but I would suggest using and aftermarket master like wilwod or Tilton master and pedal assembly. The stock set up works but this is a better way to go.

There are several people who already make all the things you are doing and have basically perfected it but it looks like you are more than capable of getting it all done your self.

I have done everything describe to my car (except master and Pedal set up) and it works fairly well. It is all 100% legal in grp 6 as well so it is def worth doing. Good luck, grp 6 is still the most fun and interesting group IMO and should be a little more "fair" if the new memo is to be believed and enforced.

If I had pics of my set up I would post but the car is a long way away and I don't have any on my computer.

Good luck!
Old 01-14-2018, 09:09 AM
  #67  
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This is basically what the "latest and greatest" $1000 per corner caliper and pistons look like, and if I could afford them they would be on my car, and worth every penny! I have version 1.0, this is prob version 10.0.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:03 PM
  #68  
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BJM
Wow, great pics of the caliper and pistons. Doesn't look that hard to duplicate, I have a mill and a lathe. Love the slotting idea on the spacers. Verrry trick.

Yes, I know it's been done for years, but I never saw it posted on the Forum how easy it really is. Duntov wants something like $2300 for a setup to do what I am doing for about $50. Maybe not as fancy though.

1- I am considering spacers in the calipers, but it changes all the clearances. caliper mounts, brake hat , wheel to rotor. For now I will be happy to get it running on the track

2-don't know if I can get away with it , but the Wilwoods have SS pistons that will help a little. Again a SS or Ti spacer would help.

3-I have 2 piece slotted rotors

4-5- 3" ducting sounds good . I was debating what size and that is the only purpose of the shield. It will be cut down to a minimum if used at all. I may fabricate something better, but it's a starting point.

6-I installed a alum replacement master to save weight. It will work o-k , I know not the best setup though.

Thanks for your input and pics. Hope to see you at the track ! Pops
Old 01-15-2018, 12:36 PM
  #69  
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I just went on the Duntov site to look at the latest! I can't compete, with that kind of money. Let's turn it into a rich guy only activity! I think I will just finish my rebuild and be content as I want to keep it Vintage, except for the Gen 1 w/23 degree aluminum block and heads, and I put a Richmond 6 speed in as at some tracks, I got tired of settling in at an rpm limiting top speed!

Last edited by TCracingCA; 01-15-2018 at 12:43 PM.
Old 01-15-2018, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TCracingCA
I just went on the Duntov site to look at the latest! I can't compete, with that kind of money. Let's turn it into a rich guy only activity! I think I will just finish my rebuild and be content as I want to keep it Vintage, except for the Gen 1 w/23 degree aluminum block and heads, and I put a Richmond 6 speed in as at some tracks, I got tired of settling in at an rpm limiting top speed!

picture of someone from Duntov holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy their stuff, I never spent a dime there and I did just fine
Old 01-15-2018, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by redvetracr
picture of someone from Duntov holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy their stuff, I never spent a dime there and I did just fine
I have some expensive parts, but those guys must be gold plating stuff now! Your car was awesome! I love that car!
Old 01-18-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by redvetracr
picture of someone from Duntov holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy their stuff, I never spent a dime there and I did just fine
Most of the Duntov brake stuff is not built or designed by them and the picture I posted was not designed or build by them but rather ACG enterprises. He is one of the best in vintage racing.

Last edited by bjm; 01-18-2018 at 10:20 AM.
Old 01-28-2018, 09:50 AM
  #73  
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I've been looking at the brake designs. Here at the 24 hours of daytona. Calipers are at the bottom to get the lowest CG.

This is a tribute to Dan Gurney race. I got the pleasure of meeting him and his son years ago because our shop had his old American Westlake v12 Eagle. F1 car I kinda cringed when his son did a big smokey burn out leaving the pits for some hot laps at laguna Seca for the fans

I try to make a few IMSA races a year with pit passes



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