383 - buy vs build?
01-24-2018, 07:06 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
This question has been popping up a lot lately. Will give you my two cents based on experience. You are much better off having someone local do machine work for you than buying a crate that who knows how good the work is. Now I didn’t say necessarily the cheapest way. The basic machine work is the most important part of having an engine last. But everyone wants to spend the money on all the bolt in go fast parts. Someone local knows if this engine doesn’t perform, you are going to show up on his doorstep. Check these crate motor warranties too. Most that I have seen, force you to remove and transport the engine to them, with no guarantee of coverage.
The 502 crate my 69 had in it when I bought it had 7500 miles on it. It used a quart of oil every 400 miles, which was common on those 502’s. I asked around, and found a local race engine builder everyone seemed to recommend. We used the block and crank from my crate but redid everything else. It has been a terrific trouble free engine for 15 years now. Just had him look it over and do a cam change and all was good. He once told me of some of the crate engines he has had in his shop to fix. One 632 from a well know crate supplier was there when mine was. So my advice would be try to use parts from your old engine, maybe buy a stroker crank and bare cylinder heads and find someone really good local to you and build a relationship with them. Let them do the machine work and you can put it together yourself. Good luck!
Bill
The 502 crate my 69 had in it when I bought it had 7500 miles on it. It used a quart of oil every 400 miles, which was common on those 502’s. I asked around, and found a local race engine builder everyone seemed to recommend. We used the block and crank from my crate but redid everything else. It has been a terrific trouble free engine for 15 years now. Just had him look it over and do a cam change and all was good. He once told me of some of the crate engines he has had in his shop to fix. One 632 from a well know crate supplier was there when mine was. So my advice would be try to use parts from your old engine, maybe buy a stroker crank and bare cylinder heads and find someone really good local to you and build a relationship with them. Let them do the machine work and you can put it together yourself. Good luck!
Bill
I sent pm with the 2 most popular local shops with the racing crowd.
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jim-81 (01-25-2018)
01-24-2018, 09:27 PM
#22
Hope that helps.
01-25-2018, 10:21 AM
#24
Pro
01-25-2018, 10:50 AM
#25
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies. My thinking on rebuilding my existing engine is this - and I also went through a cost analysis on this option. I would need a stroker crank, rotating assy, heads, and also get my block machined, plus all the other stuff. It came out to again almost the same as a new engine. Plus I would need to use a retro roller cam since it is a two piece RMS. I also am not wild about doing all the clearancing. That looks like a big mess. I figured if I would just go new (or build new) and sell the existing engine and try to get something for it.
I did call a local performance engine builder thanks to the suggestions here and I am waiting for the call back. I like this idea, so we will see what they say. If it's not crazy out of the ball park I might go that route.
Jim
I did call a local performance engine builder thanks to the suggestions here and I am waiting for the call back. I like this idea, so we will see what they say. If it's not crazy out of the ball park I might go that route.
Jim
01-25-2018, 11:55 AM
#27
Race Director
I've been working through the rebuild of my big block with a highly recommended speed and machine shop. I'll be stroking my 454 to 496 and we are estimating 600+ hp/tq. We are using high quality parts throughout the build as I have stressed that I want a dependable motor when it's complete. It's expensive and out of my budget so I am cruising my 73 the way it is for now and have been purchasing all the parts and pieces a little at a time. Working with the shop owner he recommends what parts I need, I research the best deal and if he can match or beat that price, I purchase through him. I save and he still makes some profit on what I need. The shop will be doing all the machining and assembly of the bottom end and heads. Like you I don't have the tools or experience to assemble the bottom end. I could do it, but I'm relying on his 50 years experience to do it better than I can.
My research shows that using my OEM 2 bolt main block will be more than adequate to handle the torque and horsepower I plan in my build.
I also looked at selling my OEM 454 complete, but they really aren't worth as much as I thought and selling it would not net me the cost of a new GM 4 bolt block and the machine work needed for a new block, which would cost close to the same as just using the OEM block.
My research shows that using my OEM 2 bolt main block will be more than adequate to handle the torque and horsepower I plan in my build.
I also looked at selling my OEM 454 complete, but they really aren't worth as much as I thought and selling it would not net me the cost of a new GM 4 bolt block and the machine work needed for a new block, which would cost close to the same as just using the OEM block.
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jim-81 (01-25-2018)
01-25-2018, 02:18 PM
#28
Drifting
Thread Starter
I've been working through the rebuild of my big block with a highly recommended speed and machine shop. I'll be stroking my 454 to 496 and we are estimating 600+ hp/tq. We are using high quality parts throughout the build as I have stressed that I want a dependable motor when it's complete. It's expensive and out of my budget so I am cruising my 73 the way it is for now and have been purchasing all the parts and pieces a little at a time. Working with the shop owner he recommends what parts I need, I research the best deal and if he can match or beat that price, I purchase through him. I save and he still makes some profit on what I need. The shop will be doing all the machining and assembly of the bottom end and heads. Like you I don't have the tools or experience to assemble the bottom end. I could do it, but I'm relying on his 50 years experience to do it better than I can.
My research shows that using my OEM 2 bolt main block will be more than adequate to handle the torque and horsepower I plan in my build.
I also looked at selling my OEM 454 complete, but they really aren't worth as much as I thought and selling it would not net me the cost of a new GM 4 bolt block and the machine work needed for a new block, which would cost close to the same as just using the OEM block.
My research shows that using my OEM 2 bolt main block will be more than adequate to handle the torque and horsepower I plan in my build.
I also looked at selling my OEM 454 complete, but they really aren't worth as much as I thought and selling it would not net me the cost of a new GM 4 bolt block and the machine work needed for a new block, which would cost close to the same as just using the OEM block.
01-25-2018, 03:13 PM
#29
Le Mans Master
I just built a 496. Apples to oranges with a SBC, I know. I had a machine shop do all of the things I can't- Bore, line hone, deck, fit pistons and torque plate finish hone.
I spent the cash and bought a dial bore gauge, and a long stroke dial indicator.
I checked all of the bores against piston diameter, (cylinder wall clearance), Fit all of the main bearings, all the rod bearings, measured all of the rod bolt lengths, file fit all the rings, set the cam in with a degree wheel, indicated #1 TDC with a dial indicator, all during the assembly of the short block.
In all of that, there's a ton of other little things you think of and get them to happen too.
With a crate motor, you just swing it over the hole and drop it in. IT all depends on where you want to go. Hindsight, I could have gotten a crate motor for a little less than what I spent on the parts and machine shop.
I spent the cash and bought a dial bore gauge, and a long stroke dial indicator.
I checked all of the bores against piston diameter, (cylinder wall clearance), Fit all of the main bearings, all the rod bearings, measured all of the rod bolt lengths, file fit all the rings, set the cam in with a degree wheel, indicated #1 TDC with a dial indicator, all during the assembly of the short block.
In all of that, there's a ton of other little things you think of and get them to happen too.
With a crate motor, you just swing it over the hole and drop it in. IT all depends on where you want to go. Hindsight, I could have gotten a crate motor for a little less than what I spent on the parts and machine shop.
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jim-81 (01-26-2018)
01-25-2018, 03:26 PM
#30
Safety Car
Spending that much money, you might as well go for a bigger inch small block. I found a sb 400 and rebuilt it into a 406. It’s no screamer but will redline at 5800-6000 rpm. With machine work, rebuild kit with pistons and cast heads rebuilt I’m $2000 into it. If I splurge on fancy aluminum heads and roller cam, tack another $2000 on. Going cheap I’m at @300hp. Going expensive I’m looking at @400hp .
If I was willing to cut my hood, I would just slap a 144 supercharger on a worn 350 and beat the crap out of it. Just set your rev limiter at a reasonable limit.
If I was willing to cut my hood, I would just slap a 144 supercharger on a worn 350 and beat the crap out of it. Just set your rev limiter at a reasonable limit.
01-25-2018, 04:01 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
If I hadn't been all about keeping stock appearances, Id have bought a crate motor.
Definitely will do so next time around.
Definitely will do so next time around.
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jim-81 (01-26-2018)
01-27-2018, 03:09 PM
#33
Safety Car
My vote is to build it. There isn't a price you can put on the satisfaction of firing up/racing an engine that you put together with your own two hands. It give you a different kind of appreciation for your engine. Individually the parts are basically paper weights, but somehow when you get finished putting everything where it goes it becomes a symphony (although sometimes a poorly tuned one in my case lol) of sound that puts out some enjoyable horsepower. The knowledge that you gain is the important/fun part, a deeper understanding of how an engine functions helps you troubleshoot problems should they arise. Good luck with the engine.
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jim-81 (01-29-2018)
01-27-2018, 07:02 PM
#34
Le Mans Master
My vote is to build it. There isn't a price you can put on the satisfaction of firing up/racing an engine that you put together with your own two hands. It give you a different kind of appreciation for your engine. Individually the parts are basically paper weights, but somehow when you get finished putting everything where it goes it becomes a symphony (although sometimes a poorly tuned one in my case lol) of sound that puts out some enjoyable horsepower. The knowledge that you gain is the important/fun part, a deeper understanding of how an engine functions helps you troubleshoot problems should they arise. Good luck with the engine.
I did the same with my OEM L-82 back in 2014 but wanted to keep as much L-82 as possible. I had my builder recondition the L-82 forged crank, reconditioned the L-82 forged rods, reused the L-82 oil pan, L-82 intake ported, and had all the machine and bottom end assembled with new JE Forged Racing pistons. Once the short block was assembled and completed, I did the cam, Heads, further reassembly, new clutch kit and reinstall. It was a ton of work, BUT I used pretty much the best parts (AFR Heads and Howards Roller Cam) and saved a good deal of money as well...still pricey but done right with top components. You will not get anywhere that type of quality control and components with a crate engine which is going to be cheaper but you get what you pay for...no free ride. No price tag for the satisfaction of doing it yourself and in my case, the end product was exactly what I was after....A 355 L-82 with 425+ Gross HP concentrated for amx torque in the midrange RPM's...pretty amazing....!!!
Last edited by jb78L-82; 01-27-2018 at 07:05 PM.
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jim-81 (01-29-2018)