Today's aftermarket aluminum heads compared to stock heads in the muscle car era...
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Today's aftermarket aluminum heads compared to stock heads in the muscle car era...
As the title states,which heads are better? ( loaded question I know)....Recently had a convo with a hot rod enthusiast....He feels the iron heads from some of the SBC motors back in the day will out perform the aluminum heads today .....
He feels that a lot just can't duplicate what once was a better design in the first place....
Any thoughts?
He feels that a lot just can't duplicate what once was a better design in the first place....
Any thoughts?
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#3
Le Mans Master
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Tell your friend to put down the pipe. He has smoked enough.
Camel heads and even Vortec are old school. Sooooooo much better stuff out there now. ALUMINUM;
Weight savings.
Run more Ign timing.
Run more compression
Run cooler
Bigger Valves
Better Flow
Better / bigger springs
Better guides
Better porting
Better chamber design.
And on & on & on.
Camel heads and even Vortec are old school. Sooooooo much better stuff out there now. ALUMINUM;
Weight savings.
Run more Ign timing.
Run more compression
Run cooler
Bigger Valves
Better Flow
Better / bigger springs
Better guides
Better porting
Better chamber design.
And on & on & on.
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#4
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Tell your friend to put down the pipe. He has smoked enough.
Camel heads and even Vortec are old school. Sooooooo much better stuff out there now. ALUMINUM;
Weight savings.
Run more Ign timing.
Run more compression
Run cooler
Bigger Valves
Better Flow
Better / bigger springs
Better guides
Better porting
Better chamber design.
And on & on & on.
Camel heads and even Vortec are old school. Sooooooo much better stuff out there now. ALUMINUM;
Weight savings.
Run more Ign timing.
Run more compression
Run cooler
Bigger Valves
Better Flow
Better / bigger springs
Better guides
Better porting
Better chamber design.
And on & on & on.
#5
Team Owner
Tell your friend to put down the pipe. He has smoked enough.
Camel heads and even Vortec are old school. Sooooooo much better stuff out there now. ALUMINUM;
Weight savings.
Run more Ign timing.
Run more compression
Run cooler
Bigger Valves
Better Flow
Better / bigger springs
Better guides
Better porting
Better chamber design.
And on & on & on.
Camel heads and even Vortec are old school. Sooooooo much better stuff out there now. ALUMINUM;
Weight savings.
Run more Ign timing.
Run more compression
Run cooler
Bigger Valves
Better Flow
Better / bigger springs
Better guides
Better porting
Better chamber design.
And on & on & on.
#6
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
with all the above, some just cant let go of the "old days".
Even comparing cfm is just the tip of the iceberg...get a set of trick flow double humps a can of spray paint, done.
Even comparing cfm is just the tip of the iceberg...get a set of trick flow double humps a can of spray paint, done.
Last edited by cv67; 02-10-2018 at 03:40 PM.
#8
Drifting
As the title states,which heads are better? ( loaded question I know)....Recently had a convo with a hot rod enthusiast....He feels the iron heads from some of the SBC motors back in the day will out perform the aluminum heads today .....
He feels that a lot just can't duplicate what once was a better design in the first place....
Any thoughts?
He feels that a lot just can't duplicate what once was a better design in the first place....
Any thoughts?
The only way you can convince those kind of people is to convince them to take their car to the track and race similar equipped cars or a dyno day.
#9
Burning Brakes
OP: Back when these cars were built, a 'badass' SBC was pushing 450HP, these days anyone can get 500 out of a very mild build. The vast majority of the improvements in power came from better flowing modern heads.
#10
I agree the new/modern heads will make more power no doubt. But if you are building a new engine the aluminum heads will allow you to run higher compression on pump gas. Also depending on the heads moving the valve placement like Trick Flow. I have used AFR with great results. There are other lower priced heads out there.
#12
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Just lately i took a crash course in bb chevy heads,
I learned a lot and learned that yeah, some will hold on to something maybe out of sentiment,
What i found was really cool was in the day rectangle port heads were a must have for a hot rod bb,
Now with a zillion dyno reports to prove it rectangle ports were good for wide open racers , sucked on the street, even though some guys still swear by them and insist they are a great street head,
But even cooler some modern oval port aftermarket aluminum heads do better than the old rectangle ports, a best of both words i guess,
Dont get mad at me, go cuss out the dynos....
My budget keep me in old iron
I learned a lot and learned that yeah, some will hold on to something maybe out of sentiment,
What i found was really cool was in the day rectangle port heads were a must have for a hot rod bb,
Now with a zillion dyno reports to prove it rectangle ports were good for wide open racers , sucked on the street, even though some guys still swear by them and insist they are a great street head,
But even cooler some modern oval port aftermarket aluminum heads do better than the old rectangle ports, a best of both words i guess,
Dont get mad at me, go cuss out the dynos....
My budget keep me in old iron
#13
Just lately i took a crash course in bb chevy heads,
I learned a lot and learned that yeah, some will hold on to something maybe out of sentiment,
What i found was really cool was in the day rectangle port heads were a must have for a hot rod bb,
Now with a zillion dyno reports to prove it rectangle ports were good for wide open racers , sucked on the street, even though some guys still swear by them and insist they are a great street head,
But even cooler some modern oval port aftermarket aluminum heads do better than the old rectangle ports, a best of both words i guess,
Dont get mad at me, go cuss out the dynos....
My budget keep me in old iron
I learned a lot and learned that yeah, some will hold on to something maybe out of sentiment,
What i found was really cool was in the day rectangle port heads were a must have for a hot rod bb,
Now with a zillion dyno reports to prove it rectangle ports were good for wide open racers , sucked on the street, even though some guys still swear by them and insist they are a great street head,
But even cooler some modern oval port aftermarket aluminum heads do better than the old rectangle ports, a best of both words i guess,
Dont get mad at me, go cuss out the dynos....
My budget keep me in old iron
#14
Drifting
Just lately i took a crash course in bb chevy heads,
I learned a lot and learned that yeah, some will hold on to something maybe out of sentiment,
What i found was really cool was in the day rectangle port heads were a must have for a hot rod bb,
Now with a zillion dyno reports to prove it rectangle ports were good for wide open racers , sucked on the street, even though some guys still swear by them and insist they are a great street head,
But even cooler some modern oval port aftermarket aluminum heads do better than the old rectangle ports, a best of both words i guess,
Dont get mad at me, go cuss out the dynos....
My budget keep me in old iron
I learned a lot and learned that yeah, some will hold on to something maybe out of sentiment,
What i found was really cool was in the day rectangle port heads were a must have for a hot rod bb,
Now with a zillion dyno reports to prove it rectangle ports were good for wide open racers , sucked on the street, even though some guys still swear by them and insist they are a great street head,
But even cooler some modern oval port aftermarket aluminum heads do better than the old rectangle ports, a best of both words i guess,
Dont get mad at me, go cuss out the dynos....
My budget keep me in old iron
Last edited by roscobbc; 02-11-2018 at 05:50 AM.
#15
Race Director
So what shape are the ports in the LS motors?
#16
Drifting
^ the only shape they could use that fit between the pushrods and provide decent flow.
The cathedral top provided clearance close to the injector. They're superior in part due to the fact that air has a straighter shot at the back of the valve without making such a huge turn down into the cylinder. Of course, a 12 to 15 degree valve angle helps a bit . Some of the better LS7 type heads now have rounded corners, just like a lot of big block heads today that call themselves "oval" but are nothing more than rectangular ports with rounded corners.
The cathedral top provided clearance close to the injector. They're superior in part due to the fact that air has a straighter shot at the back of the valve without making such a huge turn down into the cylinder. Of course, a 12 to 15 degree valve angle helps a bit . Some of the better LS7 type heads now have rounded corners, just like a lot of big block heads today that call themselves "oval" but are nothing more than rectangular ports with rounded corners.
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PainfullySlow (02-11-2018)
#17
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St. Jude Donor '05
if someone took a traditional set of heads and a cathedral with equal cfm # the cathedral headed car will still be faster. Tech sure has come a long way!
Back when these cars were built, a 'badass' SBC was pushing 450HP,
Those cars were still fun but dont dare try and run anything on the st with them today youll get smoked.
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PainfullySlow (02-11-2018)
#20
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Here's my "oval ports"!!
No such thing as a head that's too big...just a case of an engine that's too small!
Aftermarket is usually better...but it depends. You can make outstanding power with a set of GM iron oval port or rectangular ports. They just need to be bolted on the right shortblock and ported/cammed for what they will be doing.
GOOD aftermarket heads just make it easier...a LOT easier. It's been said that most of your power is made within 1" on either side of the valve...and that's true. Getting the mixture into the cylinder and burning it efficiently is what it's all about.
Some aftermarket heads don't really flow that great and use old design chambers etc...so not as much improvement as you would expect. So on a small cube engine, old design ones might move enough air for 'X" power...but as cubes and RPM go up..air demand does also.
JIM
No such thing as a head that's too big...just a case of an engine that's too small!
Aftermarket is usually better...but it depends. You can make outstanding power with a set of GM iron oval port or rectangular ports. They just need to be bolted on the right shortblock and ported/cammed for what they will be doing.
GOOD aftermarket heads just make it easier...a LOT easier. It's been said that most of your power is made within 1" on either side of the valve...and that's true. Getting the mixture into the cylinder and burning it efficiently is what it's all about.
Some aftermarket heads don't really flow that great and use old design chambers etc...so not as much improvement as you would expect. So on a small cube engine, old design ones might move enough air for 'X" power...but as cubes and RPM go up..air demand does also.
JIM