Opinions on engine rebuild componenets
03-10-2018, 06:32 PM
#21
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks to all for the great input!
One of the reasons I wanted to get into the engine rebuilding is for the learning experience.
I'm amazed at how much there is to learn, and continue to be amazed at the amount of knowledge on this forum.
I want to select the best components that I can for this build so would def consider aluminum heads (I'll look into the AFR's) and hydraulic roller cam.
REELAV8R...thanks for the reading recommendations. I'm enjoying the research and the learning (especially cams) so there's nothing dry about it.
I just finished reading Atherton's SBC Stock and High Performance Rebuilds. But def will check other sources of info.
Derek...it's Madame Oars.
I was driving around today for quite awhile. Although I absolutely love the car, it is very week through the power band.
My daily driver is 424 hp and about the same torque. I cant wait to feel this car with more power. Suspension upgrade will follow after engine rebuild.
Regardless of the power, I got about five compliments on the car today. It sure feels good.
Thanks again for the information!
One of the reasons I wanted to get into the engine rebuilding is for the learning experience.
I'm amazed at how much there is to learn, and continue to be amazed at the amount of knowledge on this forum.
I want to select the best components that I can for this build so would def consider aluminum heads (I'll look into the AFR's) and hydraulic roller cam.
REELAV8R...thanks for the reading recommendations. I'm enjoying the research and the learning (especially cams) so there's nothing dry about it.
I just finished reading Atherton's SBC Stock and High Performance Rebuilds. But def will check other sources of info.
Derek...it's Madame Oars.
I was driving around today for quite awhile. Although I absolutely love the car, it is very week through the power band.
My daily driver is 424 hp and about the same torque. I cant wait to feel this car with more power. Suspension upgrade will follow after engine rebuild.
Regardless of the power, I got about five compliments on the car today. It sure feels good.
Thanks again for the information!
03-11-2018, 04:10 AM
#22
Pro
03-11-2018, 07:30 AM
#23
Instructor
Thread Starter
I have a 440 HP 350 that I built top and bottom myself.
First it's not my opinion that you need a forged anything to build this 350-400hp engine. Mine has a cast steel crank and hyper pistons. peak RPM is 6600 RPM with hydraulic roller cam.
If you can afford it go with a retro roller cam. It's an additional $1000 dollars to do it.
But you will not get a flat lobe.
You do not need high zinc oil.
And you will get more area under the curve producing more torque sooner if you take advantage of the roller cam's ability to lift the valve higher quicker than a flat tappet cam.
You also do not need to do a cam break in like a flat tappet cam.
A cam with 218@.050 is fully capable of developing 400 HP and torque. The power level is dependent on the head's flow capability.
My recommendations for heads would not include Dart heads.
Your Dart heads will advertise a 180 cc intake tract and you will end up with something closer to 190 cc's. Problem with this is that you have now slowed down the intake charge. This makes for a much less snappy engine everywhere below peak torque. Your peak torque will move up the RPM range as well.
The other problem is the combustion chamber size. Again it will advertise 64 cc's but you will end up with 67-68 cc ish in size. This reduces your compression ratio. That's gonna make whatever cam you have lazier and reduce power everywhere.
If you want a reliable head look to AFR or I have read Profiler heads are also very good. The flow on both those heads is very good.
Go aluminum. This is where the latest tech is.
Better heads means you need less cam to crutch the heads to make them perform.
I'm using AFR 180's. I got them pre-assembled and am very pleased with what I received. Cannot say that about the Dart SHP's I had prior to that. Nothing but trouble with those heads.
I'm running 219/219 @ .050 a 108 LSA, .549 valve lift on the cam with the AFR heads @ 10.6 CR to get my 440 HP. Also have a TH-350 with shift kit and 3.55 rear gears. It performs very well.
Stock the best 0 to 60 I could get was 10.9 seconds
Now I have to have someone else in the car with me to get decent traction and still get plenty of wheel spin to get a 5.2sec 0 to 60. These times are @ 5000 feet above sea level. At sea level with sticky tires I'm guessing another .4 seconds would come off easily.
Using flat top pistons is a very good idea. Keep the distance from the piston to the head at TDC around .040" and you will eliminate problems with detonation assuming tuning is right. That distance is called quench or squish.
If your block is still stock then your pistons will reside .025" from the top of the block at TDC. Use a .015 flepro shim gasket and you'll get that .040".
If the block is not milled then look for a compression height (CH)on your pistons of 1.56". Often rebuilder pistons will have a lower compression height assuming that you milled the block down which puts the piston top farther down the bore at TDC.
I used the Keith Black hyper pistons. You'll read plenty about these pistons not being any good and that the top ring land comes off.
Installed properly with the proper recommended ring gap these pistons have no problems and come in a 1.57 CH which reduces the quench just a little (good thing). Been running them for 10,000 miles with no issues.
If you don't have it, get vizzard's book on building SBC Chevy's.
https://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards...s=david+vizard
If you want some more info and building power this is a good book by him.
https://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards...s=david+vizard
and if you really want to dive into cam specs I would recommend this book. It's a dry read but you'll get a really good understanding of cams. The first book I recommended also has a very good section on cam selection. Try to understand cams as much as you can before you choose one, it will pay dividends.
https://www.amazon.com/Chevrolet-Sma...s=david+vizard
First it's not my opinion that you need a forged anything to build this 350-400hp engine. Mine has a cast steel crank and hyper pistons. peak RPM is 6600 RPM with hydraulic roller cam.
If you can afford it go with a retro roller cam. It's an additional $1000 dollars to do it.
But you will not get a flat lobe.
You do not need high zinc oil.
And you will get more area under the curve producing more torque sooner if you take advantage of the roller cam's ability to lift the valve higher quicker than a flat tappet cam.
You also do not need to do a cam break in like a flat tappet cam.
A cam with 218@.050 is fully capable of developing 400 HP and torque. The power level is dependent on the head's flow capability.
My recommendations for heads would not include Dart heads.
Your Dart heads will advertise a 180 cc intake tract and you will end up with something closer to 190 cc's. Problem with this is that you have now slowed down the intake charge. This makes for a much less snappy engine everywhere below peak torque. Your peak torque will move up the RPM range as well.
The other problem is the combustion chamber size. Again it will advertise 64 cc's but you will end up with 67-68 cc ish in size. This reduces your compression ratio. That's gonna make whatever cam you have lazier and reduce power everywhere.
If you want a reliable head look to AFR or I have read Profiler heads are also very good. The flow on both those heads is very good.
Go aluminum. This is where the latest tech is.
Better heads means you need less cam to crutch the heads to make them perform.
I'm using AFR 180's. I got them pre-assembled and am very pleased with what I received. Cannot say that about the Dart SHP's I had prior to that. Nothing but trouble with those heads.
I'm running 219/219 @ .050 a 108 LSA, .549 valve lift on the cam with the AFR heads @ 10.6 CR to get my 440 HP. Also have a TH-350 with shift kit and 3.55 rear gears. It performs very well.
Stock the best 0 to 60 I could get was 10.9 seconds
Now I have to have someone else in the car with me to get decent traction and still get plenty of wheel spin to get a 5.2sec 0 to 60. These times are @ 5000 feet above sea level. At sea level with sticky tires I'm guessing another .4 seconds would come off easily.
Using flat top pistons is a very good idea. Keep the distance from the piston to the head at TDC around .040" and you will eliminate problems with detonation assuming tuning is right. That distance is called quench or squish.
If your block is still stock then your pistons will reside .025" from the top of the block at TDC. Use a .015 flepro shim gasket and you'll get that .040".
If the block is not milled then look for a compression height (CH)on your pistons of 1.56". Often rebuilder pistons will have a lower compression height assuming that you milled the block down which puts the piston top farther down the bore at TDC.
I used the Keith Black hyper pistons. You'll read plenty about these pistons not being any good and that the top ring land comes off.
Installed properly with the proper recommended ring gap these pistons have no problems and come in a 1.57 CH which reduces the quench just a little (good thing). Been running them for 10,000 miles with no issues.
If you don't have it, get vizzard's book on building SBC Chevy's.
https://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards...s=david+vizard
If you want some more info and building power this is a good book by him.
https://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards...s=david+vizard
and if you really want to dive into cam specs I would recommend this book. It's a dry read but you'll get a really good understanding of cams. The first book I recommended also has a very good section on cam selection. Try to understand cams as much as you can before you choose one, it will pay dividends.
https://www.amazon.com/Chevrolet-Sma...s=david+vizard
03-11-2018, 08:51 AM
#24
Le Mans Master
I bought a 1979 l48 a couple of weeks ago and I'll be starting an engine rebuild in a few weeks.
I'm very new to this and it's been my dream to work with a qualified mechanic to rebuild my engine. I want to do as much of the work as possible myself, with the proper guidance. I was very fortunate to find someone willing and enthused to work with me.
I've ordered a couple of "Chevy SB Rebuild" manuals (as recommended on this forum) and plan to read them cover to cover before starting.
I worked with Dougs Speed Shop in Binghamton NY to select components. I'm looking for somewhere between 350 - 400 hp and ft lbs.
The components we're thinking of are as follows:
Dart 180 heads
Comp Cams 268 hydraulic cam
650 - 700 CFM double pumper carb
Flat top pistons
Dual Plan intake manifold.
I'm also going to swap the automatic for a Tremec six speed from American Powertrain.
I've learned a lot from this forum so far and would appreciate opinions on the above set up, and maybe some things to be aware of with this job.
Thanks in advance for your input.
I'm very new to this and it's been my dream to work with a qualified mechanic to rebuild my engine. I want to do as much of the work as possible myself, with the proper guidance. I was very fortunate to find someone willing and enthused to work with me.
I've ordered a couple of "Chevy SB Rebuild" manuals (as recommended on this forum) and plan to read them cover to cover before starting.
I worked with Dougs Speed Shop in Binghamton NY to select components. I'm looking for somewhere between 350 - 400 hp and ft lbs.
The components we're thinking of are as follows:
Dart 180 heads
Comp Cams 268 hydraulic cam
650 - 700 CFM double pumper carb
Flat top pistons
Dual Plan intake manifold.
I'm also going to swap the automatic for a Tremec six speed from American Powertrain.
I've learned a lot from this forum so far and would appreciate opinions on the above set up, and maybe some things to be aware of with this job.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Last edited by TedH; 03-11-2018 at 08:52 AM.
03-11-2018, 09:31 AM
#25
Instructor
Thread Starter
You will need more cam lift and duration to reach your 350-400 hp/tq goals. I would recommend a retro-roller cam kit in the neighborhood of 270-276 advertised duration (Comp XTreme Energy is good). Also, you may need more cylinder head as in AFR 190-195's. Don't forget ignition recurve and proper exhaust (headers, duals, x-pipe and turbo mufflers). I would look at to buy or compare to the BluePrint 355 crate engine rated at 395-400 hp/tq to get an understanding of what is needed to reach your goals.
I got an idea from the CSB Rebuild book on Top End Kits. There are many out there but one that I was looking at is the Edelbrock Total Power Package 435 HP 2099.
There will always be healthy disagreement on component selection and compatibility to achieve goals. I thought that a top end kit might take some of the compatibility issues off the table. There are obviously many other components outside of the top end that I need to research, but wanted to get some thoughts and experiences with top end kits.
Thanks
03-11-2018, 12:37 PM
#26
Le Mans Master
I didn't shoot for the most power overall, I shot for the most efficient motor producing the most power I could at my altitude with good street manners. My little mouse engine gets 19 MPG @ 80 MPH cruise.
Fuel economy was as important as power. I live a long ways from everything and didn't want to have to stop at every gas station along the way. It's typical for me to put 100-150 miles on the car each time I go out.
03-11-2018, 12:48 PM
#27
Le Mans Master
Thanks for the response and great suggestion on comparing to Blueprint 355 crate engine.
I got an idea from the CSB Rebuild book on Top End Kits. There are many out there but one that I was looking at is the Edelbrock Total Power Package 435 HP 2099.
There will always be healthy disagreement on component selection and compatibility to achieve goals. I thought that a top end kit might take some of the compatibility issues off the table. There are obviously many other components outside of the top end that I need to research, but wanted to get some thoughts and experiences with top end kits.
Thanks
I got an idea from the CSB Rebuild book on Top End Kits. There are many out there but one that I was looking at is the Edelbrock Total Power Package 435 HP 2099.
There will always be healthy disagreement on component selection and compatibility to achieve goals. I thought that a top end kit might take some of the compatibility issues off the table. There are obviously many other components outside of the top end that I need to research, but wanted to get some thoughts and experiences with top end kits.
Thanks
My Dart heads were set up terribly. I didn't know that when I got them but soon entered into a very time consuming and expensive learning curve and found out the hard way.
With what you are going to learn in your reading you will not want a kit, you'll want to select the components yourself.
Crate motors are mass produced and are not built to a specific need, they also need to survive to the end of a warranty so they do not represent the best and engine can do. They represent what will support the warranty and still produce the max HP number that makes a guy happy.
Don't get me wrong max HP is great and all but how did it get there? A street driven engine spends most of it's time at a power level that is far below max, that's where I want the torque and performance, in the mid range and still a decent top end.