Handling/Steering/Ride Quality of Life improvement questions
#41
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
My 74 had sat in a garage and hadn't ran for 13 years before I bought her. It took a few hours to get her in running condition. One ride down my private drive was all it took to flip a U and drive back. Here's what I did, and the order in which I performed the upgrades.
1. All new bushings. I wish I had recorded the various noises while driving down my gravel drive on that first run. I bet Fred Flintstone's rig ran a lot smoother and quieter. This involved engine/trans removal (LS swap). I went with Poly, but I don't want to debate Poly/VS rubber. I see merit both ways and downfall both ways. Perform your own due diligence.
2. Improved Steering. My 74 factory power steering reminded me of what I learned to drive on.....an old Ford 8n tractor-no pun intended. Certainly NOT "sports car steering" as I've come to understand it. It had to go. At this point I was well along with the engine, and whatever steering solution I found had to work with the engine/oil pan. All the LS pans I looked at would make the lowest point on the car THE bottom of the oil pan...except one. The "Batwing" pan fit the bill and also looked to be able to work with a rack and pinion setup.
I bought a used Steeroids setup from a forum member, giving about 50 cents on the dollar.
This mod alone will put modern feel back into and old, antiquated steering. I guarantee you this this! Your choices here are:
A. Rack and Pinion
B. Borgeson
Just make sure your choice will work with what motor you go with as well as the oil pan. Perform DD here...
Suspension. Several ways to go here, so this is only the way I chose to go. First up, I'm a BIG believer in coilovers, because there is SO much that can be done in ride height, compression as well as rebound ratios with very little effort. I have both track and street settings, taking less than 10 minutes to make the required adjustments.
Rear Suspension. A few years ago at a car show, I seen a rear coilover setup on a C3 I couldn't help but drool over. I was a Camaro guy at the time, and life went on. Once I bought my 74 Stingray, I began researching coilover suspensions on C3's, and volo! I found it, and I went with it.
I used the Sharkbite coilover setup which uses a transverse cantilever and incorporates dual adjustable Viking shocks. I went with the 450 lb springs, but later installed a softer spring. This setup has taken a solid 700 hp, albeit in street tires. I love this setup and the easy adjustability of it, I simply HAD to do something to the front end.
Front Suspension. I played copy-cat on this one, and it's a semi-coilover setup. By going straight to Viking, I was able to save quite a bit over a few other "solutions" on the market, as they could provide the correct required springs for our C3's as well as the shocks.
So once again ride height, compression and rebound setting galore.
Now...just remember, once you start "hooking up", it opens another entirely different can of worms.
Good luck in your decisions!
1. All new bushings. I wish I had recorded the various noises while driving down my gravel drive on that first run. I bet Fred Flintstone's rig ran a lot smoother and quieter. This involved engine/trans removal (LS swap). I went with Poly, but I don't want to debate Poly/VS rubber. I see merit both ways and downfall both ways. Perform your own due diligence.
2. Improved Steering. My 74 factory power steering reminded me of what I learned to drive on.....an old Ford 8n tractor-no pun intended. Certainly NOT "sports car steering" as I've come to understand it. It had to go. At this point I was well along with the engine, and whatever steering solution I found had to work with the engine/oil pan. All the LS pans I looked at would make the lowest point on the car THE bottom of the oil pan...except one. The "Batwing" pan fit the bill and also looked to be able to work with a rack and pinion setup.
I bought a used Steeroids setup from a forum member, giving about 50 cents on the dollar.
This mod alone will put modern feel back into and old, antiquated steering. I guarantee you this this! Your choices here are:
A. Rack and Pinion
B. Borgeson
Just make sure your choice will work with what motor you go with as well as the oil pan. Perform DD here...
Suspension. Several ways to go here, so this is only the way I chose to go. First up, I'm a BIG believer in coilovers, because there is SO much that can be done in ride height, compression as well as rebound ratios with very little effort. I have both track and street settings, taking less than 10 minutes to make the required adjustments.
Rear Suspension. A few years ago at a car show, I seen a rear coilover setup on a C3 I couldn't help but drool over. I was a Camaro guy at the time, and life went on. Once I bought my 74 Stingray, I began researching coilover suspensions on C3's, and volo! I found it, and I went with it.
I used the Sharkbite coilover setup which uses a transverse cantilever and incorporates dual adjustable Viking shocks. I went with the 450 lb springs, but later installed a softer spring. This setup has taken a solid 700 hp, albeit in street tires. I love this setup and the easy adjustability of it, I simply HAD to do something to the front end.
Front Suspension. I played copy-cat on this one, and it's a semi-coilover setup. By going straight to Viking, I was able to save quite a bit over a few other "solutions" on the market, as they could provide the correct required springs for our C3's as well as the shocks.
So once again ride height, compression and rebound setting galore.
Now...just remember, once you start "hooking up", it opens another entirely different can of worms.
Good luck in your decisions!
Man your ride is SWEET. Unfortunately I don't have that kind of money. I appreciate the advice on suspension, and I will do some research into rack and pinion steering!
#42
Instructor
Ok so this is more of a general discussion point with some questions scattered in.
I've had my 79 for a couple years and have focused almost exclusively on performance mods for the motor (Brodix heads, intake, Lunati cam), weight savings (removed front and rear impact bumpers, replaced seats with C5 seats, fiberglass rear spring, etc...) and some rear suspension stuff (fiberglass rear spring...again, Bilstein shocks). I also have 18" wheels and tires.
I have noticed that I don't drive the car as often as I want to or could (and my wife practically never drives it) for a couple reasons. The main reason I think is the carburetor and exhaust smell (running side pipes, no catalytic converter, and work in an office where it feels rude to show up smelling of exhaust fumes haha, plus leaving at 6 in the morning I don't want to wake the neighbors). I plan to fix that issue this year as I'm planning up swapping in a 6.0 fuel injected LS motor.
The other reason though is the way the car rides and handles. There is ALOT of wind noise and rattles, it tends to "bump-steer" a bit, and it bounces over every imperfection in the road.
I have new front springs and shocks in the garage waiting for me to find time to install them. I also am about to order all new bushings for the car since mine are so rotted out, and I have a full weatherstripping kit waiting for me to install as well. So what I am wondering from you experienced forum members who have "modernized" your C3 chassis (springs, shocks, bushings, etc...), do upgrading these components make a significant difference to the way the C3 drives and make it more "liveable" as a driver? Was there anything in particular you did that REALLY improved the driveability on a daily basis (strut brace? Steering upgrade? Brakes?)?
I realize that this is a 40 year old car, and if this is how a 40 year old car handles no matter what basic upgrades are done to it, I'm willing to accept that. But if I can improve it to a more liveable level fairly easily, I'd like to do that so that I will enjoy the car more often and my wife will want to drive it occassionally as well.
Thanks for the input, and sorry for the book!
I've had my 79 for a couple years and have focused almost exclusively on performance mods for the motor (Brodix heads, intake, Lunati cam), weight savings (removed front and rear impact bumpers, replaced seats with C5 seats, fiberglass rear spring, etc...) and some rear suspension stuff (fiberglass rear spring...again, Bilstein shocks). I also have 18" wheels and tires.
I have noticed that I don't drive the car as often as I want to or could (and my wife practically never drives it) for a couple reasons. The main reason I think is the carburetor and exhaust smell (running side pipes, no catalytic converter, and work in an office where it feels rude to show up smelling of exhaust fumes haha, plus leaving at 6 in the morning I don't want to wake the neighbors). I plan to fix that issue this year as I'm planning up swapping in a 6.0 fuel injected LS motor.
The other reason though is the way the car rides and handles. There is ALOT of wind noise and rattles, it tends to "bump-steer" a bit, and it bounces over every imperfection in the road.
I have new front springs and shocks in the garage waiting for me to find time to install them. I also am about to order all new bushings for the car since mine are so rotted out, and I have a full weatherstripping kit waiting for me to install as well. So what I am wondering from you experienced forum members who have "modernized" your C3 chassis (springs, shocks, bushings, etc...), do upgrading these components make a significant difference to the way the C3 drives and make it more "liveable" as a driver? Was there anything in particular you did that REALLY improved the driveability on a daily basis (strut brace? Steering upgrade? Brakes?)?
I realize that this is a 40 year old car, and if this is how a 40 year old car handles no matter what basic upgrades are done to it, I'm willing to accept that. But if I can improve it to a more liveable level fairly easily, I'd like to do that so that I will enjoy the car more often and my wife will want to drive it occassionally as well.
Thanks for the input, and sorry for the book!
#43
Drifting
Member Since: Aug 2015
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,939
Received 472 Likes
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344 Posts
C3 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
I've posted my stuff here before many times, but yes, I think the majority of your concerns will be dramatically improved by bushes, shocks, good alignment, a steering solution (rebuilt stock, borgeson, or rack and pinion), and then chasing down some squeaks and rattles.
My car was very loose feeling when I bought it, it bumped, crashed, followed ruts, had no steering feel etc. My car now rides and handles very well, I've done over 20,000 miles and a whole bunch of competitive track events in the last couple of years, and I've been on driving holidays with my wife in it (I think that's close to the ultimate test of ride/comfort for an old car!). I also fitted fuel injection and a five speed box which helped further with the ride comfort/smell/noise side of things. I do have a full under car dual exhaust.
- Energy Suspension poly bushes throughout
- Moog ball joints, idler arm, tie rods etc
- Bilstein Sport shocks front and rear
- Global West tubular upper arms (for improved caster, and camber curve)
- 1 coil removed from front factory gymkhana springs
- Borgeson steering
- Shortened factory gymkhana rear leaf (for clearance for my 17"x9.5" wheels) with 8" bolts to lower ride height
- Relocated handbrake cable on top of trailing arms (for clearance for my 17"x9.5" wheels)
- Rebent rear sway bar arms (for clearance for my 17"x9.5" wheels)
- 1/2" Spacer (and longer bolts) fitted between diff centre and strut to bracket to improve rear camber curve.
- SpeedDirect spreader bar
- Ridetech steering box brace
- Solid engine mounts
- Aggressive suspension and steering alignment (neg camber front and rear, lots of caster up front, very little toe in up front and a fair bit of rear toe in).
My car was very loose feeling when I bought it, it bumped, crashed, followed ruts, had no steering feel etc. My car now rides and handles very well, I've done over 20,000 miles and a whole bunch of competitive track events in the last couple of years, and I've been on driving holidays with my wife in it (I think that's close to the ultimate test of ride/comfort for an old car!). I also fitted fuel injection and a five speed box which helped further with the ride comfort/smell/noise side of things. I do have a full under car dual exhaust.
- Energy Suspension poly bushes throughout
- Moog ball joints, idler arm, tie rods etc
- Bilstein Sport shocks front and rear
- Global West tubular upper arms (for improved caster, and camber curve)
- 1 coil removed from front factory gymkhana springs
- Borgeson steering
- Shortened factory gymkhana rear leaf (for clearance for my 17"x9.5" wheels) with 8" bolts to lower ride height
- Relocated handbrake cable on top of trailing arms (for clearance for my 17"x9.5" wheels)
- Rebent rear sway bar arms (for clearance for my 17"x9.5" wheels)
- 1/2" Spacer (and longer bolts) fitted between diff centre and strut to bracket to improve rear camber curve.
- SpeedDirect spreader bar
- Ridetech steering box brace
- Solid engine mounts
- Aggressive suspension and steering alignment (neg camber front and rear, lots of caster up front, very little toe in up front and a fair bit of rear toe in).
Last edited by Metalhead140; 04-27-2018 at 02:36 AM.
#44
Drifting
Proper Cage?