TheGreek!

I have both transmissions but which one should I put in my '69? It has a mild 454 with somewhere around 400-450 horsepower. Which trans is stronger in stock form? I hear that the 700 trans won't handle the big block but the 200 will? Is that true? If so why? I know that the 200 trans was used in the buick turbo regals and grand Nationals and we're supposedly stronger than a regular 200 trans but mine isn't from one of those cars, it's from a full size '84 Oldsmobile 98. What are the differences between a regular 200 and one from a grand national? As for the 700 trans, mine came from a full size 1990 Cadillac that came with a 350 Chevy from the factory. I don't have the money to have them gone through at some race shop to replace all the guts in them so which one would be best in stock condition (with maybe a **** kit) for the Vette? Any help is appreciated.

OldCarBum

I don't have either trans, but the research I have done tells me that in a stock configuration that neither will take the 400-450 horsepower and torque your motor is putting out.
I'm sure that if you idle off lights, baby it around town and slowly accelerate up to highway speeds either trans will last a lifetime in your car, but get on it once with your big block and I would imagine you'll be pulling the transmission.
I may be wrong.
I would save your money and have the 2004R built to take the horsepower and torque your big block is putting out so you can drive it trouble free.

calwldlife

the input shafts are different sizes.
this is where the 2004r is debated as weaker.

as far as what would be better stock?
coin toss determined by what they came out of,

basically they have different gear ratios.
the 2004r comes in different configs based on what they were behind, v6 or v8.

the valve bodies are different. which is the reason why the
turbo gran national version is the most desirable.

GTRSOLO

I had to have my 200 rebuilt 2 times that I had in my 89 TTA (same drive-train as Grand National) I had big turbo/big pump/3" downpipe and other bolt-on and yadayada, so it was running in the 11's and ate 3 convertors as well, I finally had Art Carr of CPT transmission (not the company currently) rebuild my 200 and it was finally right and could take 600 hp and 600 torque. It was pricey though, with the right convertor it was $3500 shipped to me.

60 SHARK

yes I 100% agree with O C B,, the cars you state the transmissions came from, only had 160hp to 200hp tops, don't put a stock one in, save up and have the proper build done first,,, you'll be time and money ahead,,, ( sorry for the sad news )

Street Rat

I went with an Art Carr built 200 also. I love the way it shifts. I by no means am putting out anything in excess of 400 hp in my '81. The best part was it bolted right in with no modification. I replaced my th350 with the overdrive 200. Running a 3:55 out back so I needed the OD.

Search...
California Performance Transmission

mrvette

My '72 was a muncie 4 speed 336 rear L48 that is now a roller 350 doing about 400 lbs and 350 hp.....behind this same essential engine I at one time had a 700 and the thing was annoying to drive, in that starting out at a light, get maybe 1/2 way across the intersection in traffic, having the trans go from 3k+ to less than 2k let alone lockup the rpm drop was annoying.....considering the torque converter, I felt like just eliminating first gear.....so went to a 200 trans that I built in the back room....still in the car, upshifts good in traffic, and solid shifts/lockup fine....been in there over ten years now.....true it moves maybe 2-3 time/week, but it's only a mile to the stores.....

gkull

200s top out about 600 hp, bolt right in, and have better 1st gear ratio.

700s top out about 850 hp require cross member mods and shorter drive line. Too low of 1st gear

both àre junky low power handling in stock and mildly modded versions. Only suitable for sub 350 hp small blocks and no racing

7T1vette

The THM-200-4R will best swap with a THM-350 trans; the THM-700R4 will best swap with the THM-400 (because of trans length and space 'envelope'. But, you can put either into any C3 without much difficulty.

Either O/D trans will need to be rebuilt with some stronger parts if you have beefed-up the engine.

lionelhutz

Neither will stand up very long in stock form. The 700R4 should have a better chance if you put some performance parts into it like a shift kit and a 0.5" TV valve as long as it happens to still be reasonably healthy inside. But, it could still break at any time.

You'd have to throw almost every known aftermarket part into the 200-4R to have reasonable reliability behind a big block and do almost the same for the 700R4. Both transmissions are fundamentally too weak in stock form for the torque you have and there is no single part or upgrade piece that will fix their issues. Both require a whole bunch of upgraded parts before you can expect them to be reliable. Even after doing that, either could still fail at any time.



Odd... My car with a 4L60e using a stock type higher stall converter (something like a S10 converter) drops maybe 400 rpm shifting 1st to 2nd. When cruising, it will typically shift anywhere from 2000 to 3000rpm. The one in my daily driver with a slightly tighter converter drops maybe 500rpm shifting 1-2.

So, I'm not sure how you were managing to drop well over 1000rpm unless you were you locking the converter at the same time it shifted into 2nd. Doing that is a failure on the part of the builder and installer not setting-up the TCC lockup correctly. It's certainly not the transmissions fault.

riverracer au

i use the "B&M lock-up controller, #70244", to lock up the torque converter.

have mine set to work at 85km/h (50mph).

that with the vacuum/brake switch in the circuit, works a charm.

TedH

I bought a Bowtie Stage 2 700R4 back around 2000 and installed it in my garage. I measured for the shorter drive shaft and had it cut/blue-printed by Precision Shaft Technologies in Clearwater, FL. Other than the difficulty to muscle the full converter and transmission up against the engine (alone) and to dial in the TVS cable/line pressure, it went relatively smooth. I did have to get the TVS linkage adapter from Bow-Tie and to religiously follow the directions for setting line pressure (I bought that pressure gauge with long hose to thread into trans case). Now, I have a pesky leak around speedo sender but replaced recently so am hoping it does not leak once I have it back on the road.

I purchased the 2000 stall converter (essentially same as stock) and I can light the tires from a stand-still and well into 2nd gear.

No regrets with this transmission. Performs as well today as it did 18 years ago. Bow-Tie has improved on their craft and are still around.

http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/

rhedelius

I have a 75 with a TH400 and while I'm not ready to swap the trans just yet, I was leaning towards a 2004R from Extreme Automatics. They have their own valve body that is very similar to the GN version. Both the 700 and the 200 can be built pretty stout, just look at the gear spreads and the feedback from others before making a final decision. Good luck!

7t9l82

I agree with gkull. In 1988 I had a trans am built by lingefelter performance, at the time I picked the car up John Lingefelter told me the 200 would make a better street transmission but mine came with the 700.I came to agree with him but it was still a really potent car.
I thought about going to an od automatic and decided against it,I have 3:55-1 gears and yeah it revs a bit at 80 but I can still pass somebody with zero thought. I used to run 4:10-1 gears in another corvette and drove it 70 mph between D.C and new York many times.how many fewer miles will your engine last? And how much gas can you buy with $3500.00? With 14 k miles on mine I could never recoup the cost of changing.

TheGreek!

Damn, I was hoping for some better news but I guess it is what it is, I'm not gonna be able to use either trans without extensive (and expensive) modifications to them. Looks like the only choices I have left are a 4L80E swap (also very extensive and expensive) or a Gear Vendor overdrive for the turbo 400 that's in the car now (a little cheaper than a 4L80E swap but the floorpan has to be cut and modified for it to fit).

The13Bats

OD on most c3s is wasted money like many other modifications whose real "value" is chest pounding bragging rights to the owner...

lionelhutz

My OD was worth every penny just so I could cruise at 60-70mph without the engine turning 3000rpm. I don't really care about any gas savings or chest pounding. My reasons are probably similar to why most other people do it.

It's silly how things like blowing cash on 500hp engines and show quality paint jobs are fine, but an overdrive transmission must pay for itself....

gotgame

Looving my 7004R from bowtie. Installed it back in Feb. I do a lot of highway driving and its a pleasure. Installation wasnt a problem. I towed it to bowtie so they could check everything and then i drove it home cruising at 80 :-)

7T1vette

My '71 coupe has the original engine, rebuilt with .040-over pistons and now with 217K miles on the engine. No performance, smoking or leak issues and I want to keep it that way.

Swapped the [flawlessly operating] THM-400 trans for a 700-R4 so that the engine would turn 2050 rpm at 70 mph, get 20% better fuel mileage, and much less heat and noise in the car's interior while on the road. I'm also using full-synthetic oil to extend the life of the engine.

The O/D trans did absolutely everything I expected from it. And even though I'll never recover the expense at the gas pump, I'm VERY happy that I made the swap.

The13Bats

If you put highway miles on your c3 then

You know as well as i do that many mods or so called upgrades are wasted on the bulk of in this case c3s that get them,
If my dad was still around to visit and road trips were in my future i might justify od but not in my car the way i use it,
And pounding ones chest about something they think is cool to have wasnt meant as a bad thing just descriptive