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it came with the tri power manifold,bell housing, clutch and pressure plate no carbs had to buy them separate
It was $995 in 68
Wow, that is sweet and im so jealous, i would so have it rebuilt, and run it, tri power and all,
Nice tri powers are 2500 and up, so in this case you might just sell the 27 to fund a crate engine, but dont, run it, its too cool
the pad says To607IR
dont see any other marks
and i dont know what you mean about broach marks
I'm not an expert on engine codes but the IR appears to agree with 68 Corvette 427 Manual Transmission, 435 HP. Built in Tonawanda plant, June 6?
Broach marks are faint grooves left in the iron when the block was machined. If the block has been resurfaced for whatever reason, the broach marks will be wiped out. The authenticity of any serial number without broach marks would be suspect.
I'd think this engine would be quite valuable to an owner looking for a 'correct' engine for a 68 Corvette, one which may have lost its original.
... and i don't know what you mean about broach marks
Notice the vertical lines in the background? They are the broach marks or the tracing of the cutter that was used to deck the block before numbers were stamped on it.
Actually, broach marks are 'chatter' from the teeth of a dulling broach bar. When the bar is freshly sharpened, there are almost NO broach marks. So, expecting to see such marks will NOT happen on a substantial number of engine blocks. When the bar begins to dull, it starts to vibrate...a harmonic vibration of the bar. You can actually hear the 'hum' as it cuts across the part {not to be confused with hydraulic pump hum}; and that's when the chatter marks really show up.
It's just amazing how many folks speak to the 'gospel' of broach bar marks to demonstrate authenticity of an engine block in a 40+ year-old car....and most of them don't even know what a broach and broach bar look like.
Dogma is wonderful, as long as folks buy off. I wonder how many legitimate factory-original engine blocks have been 'rejected' because they were unlucky enough to have been machined with a sharp broach bar?
Actually, broach marks are 'chatter' from the teeth of a dulling broach bar. When the bar is freshly sharpened, there are almost NO broach marks. So, expecting to see such marks will NOT happen on a substantial number of engine blocks. When the bar begins to dull, it starts to vibrate...a harmonic vibration of the bar. You can actually hear the 'hum' as it cuts across the part {not to be confused with hydraulic pump hum}; and that's when the chatter marks really show up.
It's just amazing how many folks speak to the 'gospel' of broach bar marks to demonstrate authenticity of an engine block in a 40+ year-old car....and most of them don't even know what a broach and broach bar look like.
Dogma is wonderful, as long as folks buy off. I wonder how many legitimate factory-original engine blocks have been 'rejected' because they were unlucky enough to have been machined with a sharp broach bar?
Broach marks are nothing but wear on the tooling. They were not designed to produce marks. They were not some sort of stamp. Some blocks have almost no markings while others look like you dragged it across a parking lot in the proper direction. So, you look at it and there are no marks. Then take a pic and see what you see....
The above is the block on my original 69 427 and the broach marks are not visible by just looking at it but are in the photo. Sometimes I think these guys with their "broach marks" judging haven't seen the ball since the kickoff and have probably ruined more than one original claim with their lack of any first hand knowledge.
Last edited by CanadaGrant; 05-09-2018 at 10:23 AM.
I believe that John Z posted pictures of an engine broaching machine in the past. The size of the machine was most impressive. These pictures are of some of the machines that performed these processes at the Buick factory in Flint Michigan...
Here you see heads being milled.
This photo is showing a broach machine milling engine blocks
This on the other hand is what a rotary decking machine in a typical machine shop might look like. This is what creates the circular marks often seen on a block that has been decked to ensure it is square with the crank centerline.
The intake alone can go for big $$$. Unmolested tri-power (intake, 3 carbs, linkage and air cleaner) are in great demand by collectors restoring those engines.
Actually, broach marks are 'chatter' from the teeth of a dulling broach bar. When the bar is freshly sharpened, there are almost NO broach marks. So, expecting to see such marks will NOT happen on a substantial number of engine blocks. When the bar begins to dull, it starts to vibrate...a harmonic vibration of the bar. You can actually hear the 'hum' as it cuts across the part {not to be confused with hydraulic pump hum}; and that's when the chatter marks really show up.
It's just amazing how many folks speak to the 'gospel' of broach bar marks to demonstrate authenticity of an engine block in a 40+ year-old car....and most of them don't even know what a broach and broach bar look like.
Dogma is wonderful, as long as folks buy off. I wonder how many legitimate factory-original engine blocks have been 'rejected' because they were unlucky enough to have been machined with a sharp broach bar?
With forgery being a real problem when evaluating a claimed original engine block, broach marks is just one attribute which may support belief the block is original. Other tests may be fonts used when stamped, flaws in the characters, etc. I don't think I've ever heard of no marks being left after broaching with a new blade. Learn something new. If there are swirls implying the block has been decked by a shop after leaving the factory, but the stamp is crisp and deep, that IMHO would be a red flag.
In the end I'd have to agree with the statement it's a matter of faith when accepting the block is indeed the original installed in the car. Buyers do their best to filter out fakes. Some true originals may be rejected for reasons you stated. If I were buying what is claimed to be a true original, I'd like to see as much documentation as I could get along with a stamp pad which looks authentic. Even if I gave a suspicious pad a pass, future buyers may not be so willing.
My engine guy suggested that
can you tell me the cost if you would rather not i understand
Keep in mind that about the only parts reused on mine were the Intake, Carbs and Block. I spent $12,000 total, but I also did things like all Studs rather than Bolts, Stud Girdles, MSD Ign., Fluidampr, Alum. Radiator etc. I kept track of all costs on a spreadsheet so it's not a guess (sometimes I wish I didn't have real costs )
You can definitely do it for less than I did using the original Crank\Rods and still have a very stout motor that'll last a long time.
Keep in mind that about the only parts reused on mine were the Intake, Carbs and Block. I spent $12,000 total, but I also did things like all Studs rather than Bolts, Stud Girdles, MSD Ign., Fluidampr, Alum. Radiator etc. I kept track of all costs on a spreadsheet so it's not a guess (sometimes I wish I didn't have real costs )
You can definitely do it for less than I did using the original Crank\Rods and still have a very stout motor that'll last a long time.
i got the quote from my engine guy
around S12,000
bore and stroked to 490ci
rebuild carbs and re-color
hydraulic roller
reduce compression to run on todays gas
dyno tune it
he has done these befor and wants to stroke it because of the torque loss if we lower compression and dont stroke it
he says it will be 600 torque and 600 hp when done
around S12,000
bore and stroked to 490ci
rebuild carbs and re-color
hydraulic roller
reduce compression to run on todays gas
dyno tune it
he has done these befor and wants to stroke it because of the torque loss if we lower compression and dont stroke it
he says it will be 600 torque and 600 hp when done
Sounds like a beast (600 tq), will you re-use the Cast Iron Heads? $12,000 sounds high if not getting Alum. Heads.
Post up your Dyno results when you're done (give details of the build), I'd like to compare your curve to mine.
Last edited by suprspooky; 05-22-2018 at 02:00 PM.
I can't wait to see your results, I still have my original heads etc. in case I decide to sell the car with it's orig. hardware so it'll be great to see how the Iron Heads do in your build, they have some big Ports.
Sometimes I think these guys with their "broach marks" judging haven't seen the ball since the kickoff and have probably ruined more than one original claim with their lack of any first hand knowledge.
Only to a very small group does it matter to the rest of the world its just fluff for an ad. Saw a Beat up C5 on CL recently that was hammered it just said original miles, #s matching motor 1 of xx color
I can't wait to see your results, I still have my original heads etc. in case I decide to sell the car with it's orig. hardware so it'll be great to see how the Iron Heads do in your build, they have some big Ports.
the engine guy told me, "when these engines first came out we thought they were the greatest thing
but it turned out the hi perf ports were actually too large."
and that stroking it helps that because it sucks in more CFM.
and oh yes, he said he is not going to deck it because i will lose my pad numbers
my brother also said he has read where it says those rectangular ports were too large.
have you checked out the black and white photos i posted of installing the engine in 1968?
the engine guy told me, "when these engines first came out we thought they were the greatest thing
but it turned out the hi perf ports were actually too large."
and that stroking it helps that because it sucks in more CFM.
and oh yes, he said he is not going to deck it because i will lose my pad numbers
my brother also said he has read where it says those rectangular ports were too large.
have you checked out the black and white photos i posted of installing the engine in 1968?
Yup, all I can say is "I'm impressed". If I'm reading all of this correctly I was 7 years old when you were messing with the Nomad, that your still messing gives me hope, and then I see a Pratt & Miller C5r for sale and I think that's what I need
05-08-2018, 07:45 PM
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