Hydraulic Roller Lifter - Oil Pressure Build
#21
Instructor
Thread Starter
That is true. But you are still missing the point. You could have a gusher of oil to all the main bearings, all the cam and rod bearings and all 15 lifters / pushrods / rocker arms.
Oh! Wait. Number 16 didn't get any oil. Passageway in the block plugged? H-m-m-m-m-. Not good. If I only I had primed and watched the rockers for signs.
Oh! Wait. Number 16 didn't get any oil. Passageway in the block plugged? H-m-m-m-m-. Not good. If I only I had primed and watched the rockers for signs.
#22
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At the back of the block, hidden by the bellhousing are oil galley plugs that you hope were removed, cleaned and reinstalled with some pipe thread dope. NOT real common for that to be an issue with no oil circulation on one bank of cylinders, but keep that info mind. Lets not go there, lots of extra work.
I think you should borrow a HD 3/8 - 1/2 drill with gobs of torque. I have a Dewalt and a Milwalkee that have the side T handle. Slow and steady gets the job done.
The reason the crank is rotated during priming is to assure the oil holes in the Hyd lifters are lined up with the oil galley holes in the block. As a Hyd lifter moves up & down in its bore, the oil hole is closed off at one point to keep the lifter from collapsing. But that exact event is what keeps the oil from entering a lifter, then eventually moving up the pushrod / rocker. So that is why some rockers never receive oil during priming: the crank was never rotated to line up the orifices.
But in your case, drivers bank is getting oil, passenger side is not. indicates the lifter oil galley is blocked off somewhere.
I think you should borrow a HD 3/8 - 1/2 drill with gobs of torque. I have a Dewalt and a Milwalkee that have the side T handle. Slow and steady gets the job done.
The reason the crank is rotated during priming is to assure the oil holes in the Hyd lifters are lined up with the oil galley holes in the block. As a Hyd lifter moves up & down in its bore, the oil hole is closed off at one point to keep the lifter from collapsing. But that exact event is what keeps the oil from entering a lifter, then eventually moving up the pushrod / rocker. So that is why some rockers never receive oil during priming: the crank was never rotated to line up the orifices.
But in your case, drivers bank is getting oil, passenger side is not. indicates the lifter oil galley is blocked off somewhere.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; 08-31-2018 at 09:02 AM.
#23
Melting Slicks
I think your primer is still suspect. Compare the diameter and location of the collar on it to the diameter and location of your distributor. If it isn't at the same height in the block or is much smaller in diameter, you would be leaking too much oil past it to reach the top end. I use an old distributor with no gear and the advance machined off the top. Never had a Chevy that did not oil up right away.
Mike
Mike
#24
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St. Jude Donor '05
I think your primer is still suspect.
Now start the car.
#25
Le Mans Master
Again, once again, over analyzing this issue.
Drill primers with the correct collar will oil the top end of the engine very quickly (1-2 minutes Max) and NO, you do not need to hand rotate the engine to get the oil evenly to the top end. Never heard or seen this phenomenon OR a lack of oil to only one side if the primer works correctly.
If there is an oil blockage that prevents oil getting to the top end, the engine needs to be completely taken apart to find the source which should be a VERY RARE occurence.
Drill primers with the correct collar will oil the top end of the engine very quickly (1-2 minutes Max) and NO, you do not need to hand rotate the engine to get the oil evenly to the top end. Never heard or seen this phenomenon OR a lack of oil to only one side if the primer works correctly.
If there is an oil blockage that prevents oil getting to the top end, the engine needs to be completely taken apart to find the source which should be a VERY RARE occurence.
#26
Instructor
Thread Starter
Again, once again, over analyzing this issue.
Drill primers with the correct collar will oil the top end of the engine very quickly (1-2 minutes Max) and NO, you do not need to hand rotate the engine to get the oil evenly to the top end. Never heard or seen this phenomenon OR a lack of oil to only one side if the primer works correctly.
If there is an oil blockage that prevents oil getting to the top end, the engine needs to be completely taken apart to find the source which should be a VERY RARE occurence.
Drill primers with the correct collar will oil the top end of the engine very quickly (1-2 minutes Max) and NO, you do not need to hand rotate the engine to get the oil evenly to the top end. Never heard or seen this phenomenon OR a lack of oil to only one side if the primer works correctly.
If there is an oil blockage that prevents oil getting to the top end, the engine needs to be completely taken apart to find the source which should be a VERY RARE occurence.
Primer and it solved his problem.
I highly doubt there's an issue with blockage or some internal problem. The block was torn apart, hot tanked and put together as a short block by a reputable machinist/engine builder. I have feeling it's either the priming tool, drill power OR both.
Last edited by Dammakins; 08-29-2018 at 02:52 PM.
#27
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Just for a visual on the primer tool, go to Summit and click on tools> oil primer. Maybe they show the different styles. Some good, some bad. Moroso is ok.
And some guys want the O.P. to ruin his engine without finding the probable cause. Hurry-hurry-hurry, start it up, oh ****, broke something.
What do they care? Its not their car, not their engine, not their time & labor, not their money.
And some guys want the O.P. to ruin his engine without finding the probable cause. Hurry-hurry-hurry, start it up, oh ****, broke something.
What do they care? Its not their car, not their engine, not their time & labor, not their money.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; 08-31-2018 at 09:03 AM.
#29
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Absolutely! That's what I'm saying. Never hit the IGN key until all your bases are covered. If anybody tries to tell you otherwise, don't let them touch your car.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; 08-29-2018 at 03:44 PM.
#30
Dr. Detroit
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Prime it til you see oil coming out of the rockers. Do not worry about overdoing it because you are not going to "wash" assembly lube off....but don't sit there all day burning up your drill.
I have never soaked a lifter in oil. Why would you do that? When you prime.....you fill the lifters up....duh!
Good luck
Jebby
I have never soaked a lifter in oil. Why would you do that? When you prime.....you fill the lifters up....duh!
Good luck
Jebby
#31
Instructor
Thread Starter
Update 2 - Got a proper drill with lots of torque and a primer for Chevy V8 with a collar from Summit. Within 2 mins vast majority of rockers started peeing. However #6 exhaust is not gushing. I can see a little bit coming out the pushrod but it’s not making a river like the others. Tried spinning the crank and it’s not picking up to match the others speed. I think I drilled for maybe 5 mins continuously. Do I need to keep going or am I clear to drop this motor in car and fire?
Last edited by Dammakins; 08-31-2018 at 02:41 AM.
#32
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13, '15- '16-'17-'18-'19, '21
I would just throw this one thing out there.....
No matter how good a builder is, we all make mistakes especially if the least experienced guy in the shop is left to do some of the work.
I have 2 blocks in the local shop right now being boiled out and magnafluxed so I can send them off to some fellow CF brethren. I make a point of personally removing all the plugs in the oil galleys, the freeze plugs AND that one little plug in the oil galley just above the oil pump.
The reason I do this is I want that thing cleaned out threw the oil galleys really well. Knock out the cam bearings too.
One piece of sludge in there and I have a blocked artery (like my heart right now...lol).
The holes for the small press in plugs in the timing chain area I tap and put in screw in plugs just like the back. I also run a long bristle brush just like the one you woull use in a .22 rifle to clean out the insides. Blow them clear and use a bright light from the other end to check for clear pathways.
Grind off any loose flash in the return hole from the lifter valley down to the oil pan area.
Now back to that nasty little plug in the back. Make sure to replace it and make sure it is located properly. If not you are blocking off a galley or limiting the oil flow on one side. Here's a pic of where it needs to be installed
https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/...ystem_Chevy_V8
And to see how to take it out....
Check this YT vid.......
Not saying that your oil issue is being caused by this but just thought I'd throw this out there.
Good luck firing your baby up!
No matter how good a builder is, we all make mistakes especially if the least experienced guy in the shop is left to do some of the work.
I have 2 blocks in the local shop right now being boiled out and magnafluxed so I can send them off to some fellow CF brethren. I make a point of personally removing all the plugs in the oil galleys, the freeze plugs AND that one little plug in the oil galley just above the oil pump.
The reason I do this is I want that thing cleaned out threw the oil galleys really well. Knock out the cam bearings too.
One piece of sludge in there and I have a blocked artery (like my heart right now...lol).
The holes for the small press in plugs in the timing chain area I tap and put in screw in plugs just like the back. I also run a long bristle brush just like the one you woull use in a .22 rifle to clean out the insides. Blow them clear and use a bright light from the other end to check for clear pathways.
Grind off any loose flash in the return hole from the lifter valley down to the oil pan area.
Now back to that nasty little plug in the back. Make sure to replace it and make sure it is located properly. If not you are blocking off a galley or limiting the oil flow on one side. Here's a pic of where it needs to be installed
https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/...ystem_Chevy_V8
And to see how to take it out....
Check this YT vid.......
Not saying that your oil issue is being caused by this but just thought I'd throw this out there.
Good luck firing your baby up!
Last edited by bmans vette; 08-31-2018 at 04:35 AM.
#33
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Yup-yup-yup. I agree as in post #22. Somethings amiss in the oil galley and only a fool would not correct it before firing it up.
That is the difference between a Shade Tree Mechanic and a shady tree mechanic.
That is the difference between a Shade Tree Mechanic and a shady tree mechanic.
#34
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Prime it til you see oil coming out of the rockers. Do not worry about overdoing it because you are not going to "wash" assembly lube off....but don't sit there all day burning up your drill.
I have never soaked a lifter in oil. Why would you do that? When you prime.....you fill the lifters up....duh!
Good luck
Jebby
I have never soaked a lifter in oil. Why would you do that? When you prime.....you fill the lifters up....duh!
Good luck
Jebby
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; 08-31-2018 at 09:10 AM.
#35
Instructor
Thread Starter
I read on the Chevelle forum about a guy who was in the same spot as me - All rockers peeing but #6 Exhaust was bone dry. Mine's a bit different as I can visually see oil trying to get out the pushrod but its not gushing like all the others. Someone mentioned that the pushrod may not be seated properly on top of the lifter and that it might be good to remove, examine, clean, place it back in and then prime again. Another reco was to loosen/remove the problem rocker and then drill to see if the pushrod pees (Rocker seating problem). I'm gonna try all these little suggestions over the weekend. Hopefully its something simple like that rather than an oil galley getting plugged - really hoping that's not the case and I am betting its not given this rebuilder has done many 427 Vette motors in the past.
#36
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Now you're getting somewhere. So it was the primer tool. Sounds like one lifter is refusing to fill. Or are these dirty old pushrods full of crud? Or is the oiling hole in the rocker plugged? Is the intake in place and sealed? As you know, the intake has to be in place for the primer tool to work, but you don't have to have the gaskets in quite yet. That way if you have to pull a lifter or two you don't waste gaskets, time, money.
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#37
Instructor
Thread Starter
Now you're getting somewhere. So it was the primer tool. Sounds like one lifter is refusing to fill. Or are these dirty old pushrods full of crud? Or is the oiling hole in the rocker plugged? Is the intake in place and sealed? As you know, the intake has to be in place for the primer tool to work, but you don't have to have the gaskets in quite yet. That way if you have to pull a lifter or two you don't waste gaskets, time, money.
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bmans vette (09-01-2018)
#38
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13, '15- '16-'17-'18-'19, '21
I certainly hope that it is just that one pushrod. Sometimes it is a simple thing.
I would hate to tear down an engine because I was unsure but I have had situations in the past where the only way to be sure 100% was to start all over again.
Keep us posted.
And good luck.
#39
Race Director
Have you pulled the 2 rear lifters and run the primer to compare oil flow to each lifter bank?
#40
Dr. Detroit
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Thing is, the lifters may not fill up during priming. How would you know they are full? And if they do fill at fire up, then your valvelash is now too tight as the lifter pumps up. You should always soak the lifters overnite, install, set the valvelash with lifters full.
Jebby