cv67

x2
Had 2 sets of aftermarket rallyes that were lug centric no matter what I did they vibrated, lugs came loose. Not safe imo...

Finally broke down and bought some hubcentrics, problem solved. I know guys in the 70s down the st used lug centric rockets, cragars etc some complained, some didnt.
Not saying ones right or wrong but the lugcentric seems safer. Its "located" then clamped tight, whereas the non L.C the lugs do all the work and carry the weight .

If you have vibration probelms (common with aftermarket stuff) spin them on the balance machine and check runout before you mount the tire. You may be surprised...
not sure how an oem wheel can be perfect but an expensive aftermarket are way off the mark. Machine may say "balances within spec" but in fact it will cause issues. Same with tires, watch the treads as they spin, dont want that side/side variance, it will trammel and eventually come apart

lionelhutz

Where does this cyclic fatigue come from???

bfit

lionelhutz

OK, just checking how badly out in left field the last 4 or 5 posts have gotten. The studs don't carry a shear load. The weight of the car certainly is not constantly bearing sideways on the studs. The studs clamp the wheel to the hub face and the friction between the wheel and hub face carries the load.

C6_Racer_X

The loads on a wheel when you're on a bumpy road are far in excess of what "friction" will withstand. Even with the lugs properly torqued.

Those of us with true hub-centric wheels (where there's a tight, interference fit after tightening the lugs) have the entire hub to bear the loads of the weight of the car and the forces of a bumpy road.

427Hotrod

I will 100% agree that a nice hub centric assy would be best....but there sure are a lot of racers out there with lug centered wheels doing pretty well. I've got several wheel sets for my car to do various things...and a couple require spacers...and most of them use shank type lugs and one uses conical style. The others are some GM Rally's that do fit a little tighter on hub,,,,but still use conical lugs. Anyway...never had an issue whether drag racing and pulling wheelies or running 200 MPH at TX Mile.

As mentioned...since it's turned into a technical discussion.....18 wheelers have used stud mounted wheel assy's forever. These days you see most are hub piloted...but both designs will have issues if not torqued properly. Much of the hub piloted design with the captured washer and procedures requiring oil between washer and on threads vs dry on earlier stud piloted styles...allow MUCH more clamping load with same torque spec. I can also tell you the wheels and brake drums on the hub piloted truck stuff doesn't fit all that snug to the hub. In fact...the drums are pretty sloppy and one of the tricks to a smooth ride and no balance issues is to step on brake pedal to 'center-up" the brake drum before making final wheel tightening. They also make centering devices to install on lugs to center "hub piloted" wheels off the lugs before tightening.

JIM

leadfoot4

From discussing this topic over and over.....

ddawson

Considering CCW wheels are not hub centric as the center cap slides in from behind with a rubber o rings and the Classics are used on many race cars I agree with you there.

chevymans 77

Reading back through the thread it looks like most agree that hub-centric is a good option to have but not a necessity.

Neal

lionelhutz

Proof, or more conjecture?

I thought it was quite well known and accepted that the wheel being clamped against the hub was what held the wheel in place, but apparently it's not understood at all.

Now, you're claiming every time there is a bump the wheel shifts until the center hole hits the hub flange? It will have to move, because the wheels do have clearance between the hole and hub flange. C3 wheels are not an interference fit, unless they're left on long enough to corrode into place. There wasn't an S10 made with interference fit wheels supplied from the factory. C6 5-spoke wheels certainly aren't an interference fit either. Wouldn't that constant moving cause fretting and wear on the surfaces that are moving against each other? Where are the pictures of this wear from the wheel moving?

OldCarBum

Here is a funny thing.
After I read through several threads on this forum and was convinced I "HAD TO HAVE" hub-centric wheels for my 73, I called numerous wheel manufactures and my first question was "are your wheels hub-centric or lug-centric" and their response was always "what", we don't manufacture any true hub-centric wheels.
There was a couple wheel manufactures who would custom build one off hub-centric wheels at the price of about $2,000.00 each.
Some of the manufacturer's told me that I could have custom spacers manufactured that would duplicate a hub-centric wheel set up but none of the wheel manufactures mass produced any true hub-centric wheels or the spacers to duplicate them.
I thought for sure I would have to sell my Corvette because I could not run wheels that would wobble, cause vibrations and shear off if I gave it a little throttle.
The wheels I purchased for my 73 are top of the line, from a top manufacturer, built here in the USA and lug-centric wheels.
But according to the manufacturer, that's the way they have built them since the 60's, just like Fred Flintstones.
And believe me I must have called them all.

jersey68l36

The original poster is going to add 1/4 wheel spacers. I'd be more concerned with the spacers than not having hub centric wheels.

Suppose there are those out there that use wheel spacers and not have problems. I've have never used them and plan to keep it that way.

leadfoot4

Back when I purchased a set of the "first generation" CCWs, the ones with the BBS "crosslace style" centers, they sized the center bore of these wheels to the hubs of the car. Therefore, they were "hubcentric". When I bought a set of CCW Classics for my C-5, I asked if they were hub centric, they told me that they "sized" the ID of the center cap to the hub of the car the wheels were being used on, and combined with a snug fit of the OD of the cap, to the center bore of the wheel, they were a "quasi-hubcentric" wheel. I later sold them, and bought a set of BBS LM wheels, for that car. Believe me, they are a very tight, hubcentric wheel....

C6_Racer_X

That's how it works when your wheels aren't hub-centric. Note the bolded sections of my earlier post that you quoted.

I haven't had any C3's through my shop, or visited any lately, so I can't speak specifically to C3's. The C6 I take care of has hubcentric wheels (the factory 5 spoke wheels). I did a brake job on it recently. Once all the lugs were removed, I had to tug forcefully on the wheels to get them off the hubs. Seems like I had to use a rubber mallet on one of them. That's how you know you have true hub centric wheels (or proper adapters). Once you remove the lugs, if the wheel stays in place and requires a forceful tug to dislodge it from the hub, it's a proper hubcentric wheel.

My S10, the Bravada that I owned before that, all the Mercedes Benz cars I've owned (mostly W126 and W124 cars) and all the VWs and Audis I've owned, along with several others (Volvos, Saabs, etc.) have all had true hub centric wheels. I really can't remember the last "factory" wheel I removed from any car that wasn't hubcentric. For aftermarket wheels, I always recommend adapter rings to make them a snug hubcentric fit. I've seen various problems (mostly vibration/shaking, lugs that mysteriously loosen themselves) with aftermarket wheels installed using only the tapered lugs to center the wheels.

I have seen the galling you've referred to, but only on cars without hubcentric wheels. My S10 had a set of aftermarket wheels on it, and for the first few months I had it, every couple weeks, I'd have a vibration/shake when driving, and I'd check and find one of the wheels was loose (lugs worked loose). Those wheels fell off the thing when I took the lugs off. The center bore was significantly larger than the hub. When I bought new tires for that truck, I put a set of factory wheels on it (from the local pull-your-own parts yard) and never had an issue with loose lugs again after that. When I pulled the aftermarket wheels, I did notice some galling in between the hub flange and the back side of the wheel flange. Things were definitely moving there. BTW, I got some adapter rings machined for those aftermarket wheels, and I put them back on recently. I haven't had any issues with loosening lugs with the adapter rings installed, and when I swap wheels/tires, after removing the lugs, it takes the same forceful tug as the factory wheels to dislodge the after market wheels from the hub or adapter ring (depending on which joint releases first).

lionelhutz

Well, when I remove the tight nuts from the FACTORY C6 5-spoke chromed wheels that are on the FACTORY C6 suspension system including the original wheel bearings that I have sitting in my garage on the hoist, the wheels falls loose as I remove the last wheel nut. No tug required to get them off, let alone requiring hitting them with anything. So, I call BS on those wheels having an interference fit. Today, I'll leave you with this picture that shows a 0.008" feeler gauge stuck between the hub and the wheel center while the wheel is bolted to the car. Rather hard for the wheel to be an interference fit to the hub flange with clearance between the parts.



If these wheels moved around every time they hit a bump like you claimed, they'd be moving at least 0.008" back and forth all the time. That seems about as right as expecting the clearance between parts to magically go away.

I can hardly be bothered, but if you feel the need to continue with the bogus claims about C6 wheels then I'll take a video of the wheel falling loose when the last lug is spun off to further prove you're full of it.

gbarmore

Sorry everybody for disappearing as the OP on this thread, but I have been unbelievably busy, and frankly the thread turned into such a Sh*t show I kinda lost interest. Love a debate, but jeez.... Anyway, I decided to reach out to American Racing and ask them what their recommendations were for their wheels... What follows is direct from the MFG.... You'll have to read what's below from the bottom up, my email then their reply.. I am going to try it and see what happens. Bottom line is, you cannot use a centering ring with these wheels because it will interfere with the center cap. Granted, you can run without a center cap, but that is not going to work for the look I'm going for. I'll update this thread once I mount up my wheels and have a little time on them to see if they vibrate, etc. Thanks for all the 'colorful' discussion on this topic..

ARinfo <arinfo@wheelpros.com>
Thu 9/27/2018, 3:27 PM
You

Greg,

Thank you for your purchase. The AR767, and all aftermarket steel wheels, are not designed to be hub centric. They are designed to be centered on the vehicle’s lug nuts. They use push thru center caps that prevent them from being hub centric. As long as the wheel is tightened in the proper way the wheel will function properly.

Thank you

From: webform
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:19 AM
To: ARinfo <arinfo@wheelpros.com>
Subject: Someone contacted you on American Racing

From: Greg Barmore
Sent on: 26-Sep-18
Country: US
State: WI

Message:
I have a 1980 Corvette and I purchased your American Racing AR767 Black Wheels, part #AR7675861 for it. Once I received them I realized that they are not 'hub centric', or that the hub cutout is larger than the hub on the car. Therefore the only thing centering the wheel are the wheel bolts and lug nuts. Is this wheel designed to locate properly with this set-up or do I need to look at a different wheel set-up with the proper hub size so it locates by the hub and not by the wheel studs?

Thanks, Greg

leadfoot4

Obviously, since this information came directly from the manufacturer, it is correct....HOWEVER, as in most of life's situations, there are also "work arounds" available. The wheel you purchased is both A) a "universal fit" wheel, as well as B) made to be used with a "universal fit" center cap. A few years back, I owned a GMC Canyon 4x4, and I purchased a set of AR Baja series, aluminum wheels for it. These wheels also used a press-in from behind center cap, as well as a centerbore that was larger than the hubs on the wheels. What I did, was find an aftermarket hubcentric ring that was the ID of my truck's hub, and the OD that would allow a snug fit to the ID of the center cap.

Greengear

lionelhutz

Nice answer, direct from the manufacturer. Notice the all aftermarket steel wheels are not hubcentric comment. Tighening the 5 nuts properly will clamp the wheel to the hub face so tight that it will never move. The wheel was never designed to ride on the center hole because it's not necessary.

Of course, the naysayers will still never believe an answer direct from the manufacturer....

OldCarBum

I was recently lashed when I posted a comment from a wheel manufacturer who has built and sold custom and production aluminum wheels since the 60's who told me the same thing.