Metalhead140

I don't understand why the sump would have any bearing on the starter?

NewbVetteGuy

The starter sits right next to the oil pan. I take the opposite approach: I don't understand why champ would explicitly call out the supported starter style on their pans and list these pans as "stock starter" if they DIDN'T have fitment issues. (It takes extra work to add that to the webpage; I don't see why someone would go to the EXTRA effort to post that if there wasn't an issue.) But honestly, their website is missing a ton of relevant information that places like Summit and Jegs list on all oil pans and most of the website just plain doesn't work on my phone, so that makes me trust the info on the website a little less...




Adam

HeadsU.P.

Maybe the sump & starter clearance is not the issue, but rather the dipstick tube hitting the solenoid.

NewbVetteGuy

HeadsU.P.

Now you know why someone adjusted the pan in post 16 with a baseball bat. It needed tweaking: idler arm, starter, drainplug, etc.

txfatboy1

Adam, that pan is for a 454 (2 piece rear main). I had referenced that in my first post but didn't clarify when I posted pictures of the Champ pan. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused. In reference to the dipstick issue, the MK IV 454 has the dipstick in the pan on the passenger side. A nice feature that Champ did was to weld in a guide tube to give the dipstick a path past the baffles and windage tray. I also liked that the dipstick BOLTS on to the Champ BB pan. This pan is also built on a stock base so there are no clearance issues with the crossmember and steering linkage.

Woody

txfatboy1

Actually, that is a stock MK IV 454 (2 piece rear main) base. It is dimpled like that to give clearance for steering linkage/suspension on other GM vehicles.

Metalhead140

Of course, but aftermarket starters are much smaller in the body than the factory starter, and with most of them you can "clock" the starter to put the solenoid wherever you want. I'd be very surprised if you couldn't fit an aftermarket starter with adjustable mounting angle in any car that can fit the stock starter.

I'd be more inclined to think that they specify stock starter because that's what they've designed it around, and they don't want the risk of any complaints/returns due to somebody running something that isn't stock and it not fitting.

NewbVetteGuy

And Metalhead for the win!

I talked with Kurt @ Champ Pans just now (he's their technical sales rep who fields the questions from the weirdos like me that ask too many questions); he said they make the pans as "Stock" or "Stepped Only" because if a stock pump fits, then anything will fit. So "stock" doesn't mean that only a stock starter will fit, it means that anything will fit.

He also said that I should use Champ's "63SB" oil pickup with the 10553ST Melling Shark Tooth pump.


The only real question remaining is whether the L82's super long mains bolts (to accomodate the stock windage tray) will actually clear the in-pan windage tray or whether they'll hit. Kurt basically gave 50/50 odds either way. My real question is what do I do if I DOESN'T clear. -I thought that if you switch to a standard style bolt (like an ARP) the clamping force will be different and it'll make everything out of round and technically you're supposed to have the mains rehoned. I could take the long mains bolts out and cut them shorter but that seems like a really awful Bubba fix for mains bolts...

Either way, I'm ordering my Champ CP60LT and pickup tube now; I'm in! The value on this pan is just bonkers. It's $3 more than the Chinese Summit pan and it includes a nice louvered windage tray, crank scrapers, uses my stock-style driver's side dipstick, and has kickouts on both sides. WIN! Yea, it's 8" deep, but upgrading to the super Cadillac 7" deep road race pan (CP100KO-RR) is another $105.



Adam

7t9l82

I have the Milodon pan with the side kick outs I think it's ,8, quarts. It had a melling select pump. It fits great. My only possible issue is I can't run the 2quart truck filter. But the wix racing filter is something I really like.

stingr69

Those GM stud-bolts will likely interfere with the aftermarket windage tray pan.

I actually need your stud-bolts and you probably need my regular main bolts. Do you want to swap with me? No need to re-machine anything.

The mains typically need to be align honed if you go to an aftermarket stud/nut setup due to the difference in clamping load the studs with nuts on the caps provide. If you go from GM stud-bolts to GM bolts, the clamping force is unchanged.

jim2527

Wix racing filters are one time use to be discarded after each race. They're 60 microns which is way to big for street use. Fram HP is a good race-ish style filter.