Stingydonut

So many of you had been helping me diagnose why my 81 had been running rough and misfiring and i thank you!. Had alot of the symptoms of having a stuck valve, took the valve covers off and notice while its running one of the intake lifters wasnt moving at all. im assuming its a flat lobe on the camshaft which i hear is a common problem with these guys. car doesn't burn any oil or make any noises so i figure replacing the camshaft and lifters is the way to go. i bought a Edelbrock 2102 camshaft which i understand is a very mild cam, also came with the lifters. i decided while im in there i matched it with the Edelbrock timing chain and sprocket set (why not). so i plan on doing this work myself. ive done alot of research on exactly how it should be done but im just wondering if you guys think this job might be biting off more than a novice like myself can chew... of course my mechanic tried to talk me out of it saying i am going to mess something up. im just wondering what types of issues i might run into in the process? are there any problem areas i should watch out for? any bolts that are prone to snapping? etc just trying to prepare myself for what might go wrong. afterall i am taking a car thats running and driving and potentially messing something up so that its a garage ornament.

C6_Racer_X

Another slider cam succumbs to modern motor oil, I'm guessing. Are you replacing it with another slider (flat tappets), or upgrading to roller lifters?

How are the cam bearings? Are you replacing those as well? You'll need a cam bearing driver tool if you replace the bearings. And you pretty much need the engine out of the car to do the bearings.

If your old bearings are unharmed (you'll mostly know for sure when you get the old camshaft out), you can do the job with the engine in the car.

It's not the easiest job, but it's also not rocket surgery. Be meticulous and clean, and you should be fine. Don't rush it. What part of the world are you in? You might even find someone nearby to have on call, or to help out.

HeadsU.P.

First off, not a bad job. And NO, You Do Not Need To pull the engine. If you have A/C, the condenser can be moved forward with A/C lines connected just enough to clear the end of the camshaft.
I would highly recommend getting the front end up on ramps. You have to remove Rad hoses, drain coolant and maybe drop the oil pan a smidge.

Specialty tools would include a harmonic balancer remover & installer. A three jaw cam sprocket puller and a piece of pipe to tap on the new cam sprocket.

But first. Take a Sharpie marker and trace the hood hinge where it bolts to the hood. Get a helper to remove the hood and store it nose up against a wall.

Waterpump, hoses, fan / clutch, timing cover are pretty much straight forward. Tag your fan belts as to where they were and in what order to reinstall. Pay particular attention to where the timing chain marks are. Rotate engine so both dots are together, remove the old set, install the new set, right there at the same spot.

Coat new cam & lifters with the supplied break-in lube. Check, double check AND triple check that you installed the timing chain correctly. You do not want go back and start over because of a no-start condition.

Use The Right Stuff gasket maker on the china walls. Edelbrocks Gastinch on the intake to head gaskets.

Learn to set the valvelash from YouTube videos. Pour new oil onto the cyl heads / rocker arms before installing valvecovers. And make sure your choice of oil contains Zinc or you will be doing this job all over again.

Break-in involves high varying RPM for at least 20 min. Follow cam manufactures instructions. Change oil & filter again.

Stingydonut

thanks alot! i didnt even consider the bearing replacement. i was just going to wing it and hope for the best with the stock ones because i def do not have the space or the lift or stand to pull the engine. im using flat tappets and im just going to use additives with my oil changes. i live in westchester NY that would be awesome if someone lived close and could help. another thing i was wondering... do i have to remove the distributor in order to get the cam in? or will it slide right into the distributor gear with it still in place?

HeadsU.P.

Oh-oh. That question hints that this maybe more than you should tackle. To get the lifters out, you have to remove the intake manifold. To do that the dizzy has to come out. Read up on it somewhere.

Stingydonut

awesome thanks alot for this! very helpful, i didnt even think to mark the hood hinges.

HeadsU.P.

Radiator, fan, belts, waterpump removal is soooooooooooo much easier with the hood elsewhere.

calwldlife

novice?
it is an involved process.
a lot of little things.
get a good book.
plan.
take pics.

keep bolts separate in containers marked for their use.
clean clean clean.

the less time you take the less you will have to remember about where things go and in what step they are installed.

HeadsU.P.

Good point. Get a bunch of ZipLock bags and a felt pen. Bag everything. Mark everything.
Organization will make your project or break your project. If you have the room in your garage, set up a long table. As each part is removed, place that part at the far end of the table. Closest will be the last parts coming off. Then reverse order when re assembling.

Buccaneer

IMHO... I would definitely consider going to a roller cam for a few dollars more. You will not have to worry about oil additives, cam break-in or flating the cam. This is just my opinion. Hope it works out for you.

derekderek

Drop the pan. Too much messing around with the front of the pan gasket otherwise. And remove the fuel pump. It is pushing the drive rod into the cam.

HeadsU.P.

I disagree this time. Sounds like a stock engine so O.P. would be spending $600+ on a roller in about a $500 engine.
Flat Tappet & Lifters $200.
Roller $600 + cam button, modified timing cover, maybe a new distributor gear and so forth.

If he uses the proper oil he will be fine with a flat tappet for a third of the cost. I don't know why people say "for a few dollars more" go roller. Its a lot more $$$$$.

C6_Racer_X

I use PennGrade 1 oil in all my flat tappet engines now. Haven't had any issues with that. I also send at least one sample a year of used oil (right when I change it) from every engine I service for analysis. If I see less than 1200ppm zinc in it when I change it, I'll be looking for another brand of oil, or doing a zinc additive. So far, PennGrade 1 has worked well for everyone I've recommended it for, even in old Mercedes Benz engines with 300,000 plus miles a on a few of them, some that get driven 20,000 to 30,000 miles per year (and get up to 10 or more oil changes).

I've seen camshafts with wiped lobes on everything with flat tappets in the past 5 years or so. And it happens on engines that get regular oil changes. The new specs for motor oil don't have enough ZDP for the flat tappets. I used to have a bunch of used camshaft sets for the Benz engines, and I'd find good ones at the pull-a-part (and similar) yards and harvest them when I saw them. I've used up all of of my used spares, and it's over a grand for a pair of factory cams for the M117 engines from the $tealerships these days. So I feel your pain with this. Also, every engine I've pulled the covers on lately already has a wiped lobe or two now. That seems to be what totals out the 1980's and 1990's Benz cars these days.

Stingydonut

Thanks again for all the help guys! Yea rollers are going to be way out of my budget, with all the extras i could potentially need with it could be around 800 in parts alone. Im trying to sell this car so im looking to keep it as cheap as possible. the car is absolutely immaculate inside and out. i just had it painted by a buddy and its a show level paintjob, interior is extremely clean, and zero rust issues. all in all im only $5K into the car total so id love to turn a profit on it if possible. the car is as good of an example as you can find for this year (which isnt saying alot) so i feel like it would be a shame to sell it without replacing the cam. only reason im looking to do the work myself is because i was quoted for 1100-1400 just in labor alone (i live in NY so its expensive). 1400 seems a little steep considering with parts and gaskets and fluids id be looking at 1700 easily. so the name of the game for me is cheap hahaha.

cv67

Your FT will be fine, thats a real mild profile but will give you a slight boost. Are you replacing valve springs? I would....seals are righ there in front of you. I wouldnt bother with cam bearings.
No additives needed just use a good quality oil. These went flat when they were new, too.
Even rollers go flat-

derekderek

I would still use an additive for the break-in. There's no such thing as too much zinc whenever they're brand new.

HeadsU.P.

The hardest part of this job is the timing cover install w/o removing the pan. Its do-able but tricky. Some people drop the pan just an inch to gain clearance for the covers tang. You will see what I mean during disassembly. With the timing cover off and at your work bench, always replace the crank seal. That's a must. It will tap out from the backside of the cover with a wooden stick & hammer.

With $200 for cam set and $35 timing set, another $50 in gaskets, tool rental, oil / filter, RTV, you should be able to do this project for around $350.

Order your intake gaskets wisely. Lots of options to choose from.

Big2Bird

Sell it as is, and be honest about the cam. My 2 cents.

If you really want to tackle this, you are in for an education .If you have the stock computer, use the stock cam, new melling lifters, and call it done.
Use EOS on start up, and run it at 2000RPM for 30 minutes.
Me. I have an 81 and have been wrenching for 50 years. When mine ate the cam, I bought a crate engine for $1200 delivered, and presto, Im done.

HeadsU.P.

I think the market would be turned off by the fact that its running like crap and thinking its a costly repair. He would have to list and sit on this car for quite a while or take a large reduction.
Guys like you & I could have this job done by the afternoon, at a cost much less than the reductions offered by potential buyers.

C6_Racer_X

Personally, I would not order parts until I had the old camshaft out and looked at it.

If the journals are scored, the bearings are also trashed. At that point, if you're selling it, I'd probably list it on someplace for collectible damaged/project cars and sell it "as is." You could throw a junkyard camshaft from any old truck with a 350 in it and put it back together and hope for the best. I'm too honest to do that, though. I sure wouldn't put a brand new performance cam in that and expect anything good to happen.

If the camshaft has a wiped lobe (or two, or more), but no damage to the bearing journals, I'd replace it/upgrade it and finish the repair that way.