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Bearing material in pan, what would you do?

 
Old 12-30-2018, 10:44 PM
  #21  
stumpshot
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you sure that it isn't some hardened gasket sealer or gasket maker? I've seen that stuff feel like metal. Stick a match to it and see if it melts or burns.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:28 AM
  #22  
Rescue Rogers
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looks like old gasket
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:49 AM
  #23  
randallsteel
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Hey guys. Everything on the crank (at least the lower half) looked fine. Def no large chunks missing. No idea what that material is. It is metal though.I held some pieces under a lighter and they melted and now itís like small shiny metal puddle. It melted in about 3 seconds which I wasnít expecting either, must be tin or some other kinda of metal that melts at low temps. Ima try to put it all back together today and just let it be. Ill let everyone know if the engine detonates or something like that anytime soon. Thanks for all the help
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Old 12-31-2018, 07:22 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by randallsteel View Post
Hey guys. Everything on the crank (at least the lower half) looked fine. Def no large chunks missing. No idea what that material is. It is metal though.I held some pieces under a lighter and they melted and now itís like small shiny metal puddle. It melted in about 3 seconds which I wasnít expecting either, must be tin or some other kinda of metal that melts at low temps. Ima try to put it all back together today and just let it be. Ill let everyone know if the engine detonates or something like that anytime soon. Thanks for all the help
Babbitt melts at 450*. Not much else it could be.
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Old 12-31-2018, 07:58 AM
  #25  
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so you have pulled all the rod caps and main caps? Now pull a bearing shell out and read the size and read the stampings on it. Get an idea this is an already rebuilt engine or if every thing in this is standard and original with GM markings on the bearings. And then put 8 new rod bearings in it. Check the thrust surface of the back main carefully.

Last edited by derekderek; 12-31-2018 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 12-31-2018, 08:03 AM
  #26  
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I agree - clean it all up and put in new bearings. BTW connecting rods at the crank pins are supposed to have a side thrust clearance, so you should be able to get slight side to side movement by hand.
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:02 AM
  #27  
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I’ve been thinking about this one a little bit. Other than the thrust bearing, I don’t see how chunks that big could end up coming off. There just isn’t sufficient clearance. Even the thrust bearing, I’m having trouble seeing how it would come off in chunks. Until you posted that it melts, I would have suggested that it’s gasket material or maybe something off the timing gears. I thought that maybe it was off of a cam bearing but don’t see how it wouldn’t create a lot of noise. The shape is also wrong.

The unfortunate part is that it’s hard to justify ignoring this and hoping for the best. As others have said, engines don’t heal. If it were me, I’d probably pull the engine and take the opportunity to do a refresh. If the compression is good, I might even skip doing a bore and leave the pistons and cylinders alone. I’m sure the heads could use a valve job by now anyways.

my .02

Last edited by CA-Legal-Vette; 12-31-2018 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:37 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by derekderek View Post
so you have pulled all the rod caps and main caps? Now pull a bearing shell out and read the size and read the stampings on it. Get an idea this is an already rebuilt engine or if every thing in this is standard and original with GM markings on the bearings. And then put 8 new rod bearings in it. Check the thrust surface of the back main carefully.
To put all new bearings in, the crank has to be micrometer checked. All rods ends have to be mic checked inside the journal ends, not an easy task. All the mains need to be mic checked.
How you going to do that accurately when the crank is still in the block?
The O.P. said bearings are fine. Suggesting slapping all new bearings in tells me you have never done this with engine in car, crank in block.
Poor advice.

Last edited by HeadsU.P.; 12-31-2018 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 12-31-2018, 10:21 AM
  #29  
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Good oil pressure and no knocks = not bearing material - at least from this set. You can't lose that much and not have a symptom.
Junk in the pan from a prior rebuild.
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Old 12-31-2018, 10:53 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by HeadsU.P. View Post
To put all new bearings in, the crank has to be micrometer checked. All rods ends have to be mic checked inside the journal. All the mains need to be mic checked.
How you going to do that when the crank is still in the block?
The O.P. said bearings are fine. Suggesting slapping all new bearings in tells me you have never done this with engine in car, crank in block.
Poor advice.
I have actually done that in the past. Used plasti-gauge to check clearances. It can be done. It was a low performance engine as is the L-48 in stockish form, and it worked fine, lasted long time. Of course the mating surfaces were not scored or damaged in any way.

Junk in the pan from a prior rebuild
If checking all the bearings shows no evidence of pieces missing from them, then I would be inclined to think this as well. I really don't know how a strip of bearing can come loose in the first place, but stranger things have happened.
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:07 AM
  #31  
Jebbysan
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Anybody think it could be a piece of old distributor gear? It does not look like bearing material to me......if it was, the pieces are big enough to suspect much greater damage that would effect oil pressure.
Anyhoo....time to spend some time pulling main and rod caps for inspection. Pull the oil pump and corresponding shaft, fuel pump shaft....etc...
Until you know...you just don't know.

This would be one of the situations where Plastigage would be helpful tool.

Jebby

Last edited by Jebbysan; 12-31-2018 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:09 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Jebbysan View Post
Anybody think it could be a piece of old distributor gear?

Jebby
Not a chance.

Read post #23

Last edited by Big2Bird; 12-31-2018 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:27 AM
  #33  
randallsteel
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Hey guys, I have a thought. I didnt mention it earlier because it didnít even cross my mind as being relavent. About 300 miles ago I changed the timing gear to a metal one (donít trust the nylon crap) and while I was there I put a new cam shaft in. Could I have nicked a cam bearing during the shaft install? (Old cam looked great) Maybe those broken pieces off the cam bearings just fell down and stayed in the oil pan? I just dropped the front of the pan to reinstall the timing chain cover, which is why the pan gasket was leaking, which is why I pulled the pan off recently. How would I know if I have a damaged cam bearing? Everything is running great.
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:35 AM
  #34  
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I would be satisfied with that conclusion.
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:43 AM
  #35  
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Those cam bearings are pretty tough. You would have to really whack it hard with the end of the cam to do any damage.

Maybe those pieces have been in there since the last rebuild. Could even been something from a crappy oil filters internals. Or a piece of the timing chain cover near the bottom seal flange. Or something that was left on top of the head and feel into the pan.. Or a piece of metal gasket between oil pump and block that worked loose.
Did yours have a gasket / shim in there?

Who knows?
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:06 PM
  #36  
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I would also pull your valve covers and check the springs. This could be metal from a valve seal. I have seen pieces similar to yours when I had spring problems
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:43 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by HeadsU.P. View Post
To put all new bearings in, the crank has to be micrometer checked. All rods ends have to be mic checked inside the journal. All the mains need to be mic checked.
How you going to do that when the crank is still in the block?
The O.P. said bearings are fine. Suggesting slapping all new bearings in tells me you have never done this with engine in car, crank in block.
Poor advice.
I have sanded down a gouged rod journal on a 200 Ford six. Bought an .010 bearing and hand sanded it until clearance felt right. Told friend it might get him home. Might last a month. He sold it 2 years later and it ran 5 more years. you read the bearing shell. If it says STD you put standard bearings in it. They're going to fit better than the worn bearing you just took out. It says .010 you put .010 bearings in it and the same thing you're going to have a better clearance than you had with the slightly worn journal and the slightly warm bearing. if you have to change the upper mains get something like a roofing nail and put it into the oil hole turn the crankshaft and the nail will spin the main bearing shell right out then you put the new main bearing shell in essentially the same way. And yes I've done this a few times.

Last edited by derekderek; 12-31-2018 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:57 PM
  #38  
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Was the intake removed for any reason? I've seen old intake gaskets have thin metal sandwiched in-between the exterior surface of the gasket material. Could be if the intake was replaced, or new gaskets installed? The reason I ask is because who-ever cleaned up the mating surfaces between the heads and intake may have dropped a few small pieces into the valley where the lifters are that eventually worked their way down through the oil passages to the bottom of the oil pan? That pronounced ridge on the piece you're holding looks like an old gasket?

You also said the oil pressure is good after running for a while? Another indication the bearings may be okay? If oil pressure started out fine, then went way down after getting warm? I'd be concerned about bearings. Another tell tail sign of bearing failure is a slight rattle when the engine is throttled up with no load on it.

Did the old oil you removed have any kind of an aluminum sheen to it? Was there a thin layer of debris or very fine trash at the bottom of the oil pan that had a metal look to it when you ran your finger through it? The evidence before you tells a story. Now it becomes a learning experience as well as much fun deciphering what you do have before you.

Good Luck....
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Old 12-31-2018, 02:47 PM
  #39  
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Was the engine ever rebuilt? When I was a mechanic I found crap that was not cleaned from a poor rebuild. Back then some just rebuilt in place, rings & bearings was what customers asked for. They just pulled the pan and heads and that was it. Just a shot in the dark. But if those are bearing pieces from your engine you mayl have crank damage.

Dom
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Old 12-31-2018, 03:55 PM
  #40  
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OP says all bearing surfaces looked fine. I would like to see pics of them all.
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