C3 Tech/Performance V8 Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Basic Tech and Maintenance for the C3 Corvette

What Does It Take To Build A Strong Rear End

 
Old 01-20-2019, 03:09 PM
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OldCarBum
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Default What Does It Take To Build A Strong Rear End

I know nothing about what it takes to build a strong Corvette independent rear differential.
There are numerous threads about building a super 12 bolt rear differential for racing, but nothing I've found really lays out what it takes to build a rear differential using the OEM differential case as a starting point.
I would like to open this thread to those who build performance differentials and those who have had a differential built that has held together under street or occasional track days usage.
It would be great to have the components and parts named with the manufacture.
I know this will open up a lot of discussion about what works best and we all know how many believe their opinion is the only way, so, I would like this thread to be more of an educational thread that could be added as a "Stickey" for those like me who know nothing and need to learn.
Using my build as an example:
I'll be running a 496 cubic inch, putting out an estimated 630+ foot pounds of torque and a TKO-600RR transmission with 3.36 gears.
I plan to use my Corvette for highway cruising, some spirited driving, mountain, coastal and foothill winding roads.
So, how would you build it using "top quality components"?
Posting photos is always nice.
Thanks, Greg

Last edited by OldCarBum; 01-20-2019 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:27 PM
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Most everyone uses the factory 10 bolt case, both the Super 10 bolt and 12 bolt builds are using the factory rear end case. The "12 bolt" build requires extensive machining of the inside of the factory case to make the 8 7/8" ring gear clear. By doing the 12 bolt build, you have a bigger, stronger ring gear and a much better posi case (and more posi case options). For a stick car, especially if you're planning on running some drag radials, the 12 bolt is the way to go. You can expect to spend upwards of $7k for a full 12 IRS build with all of Tom's goodies, HD half shafts etc.... Down side is, 3.70 is the tallest gear ratio available for a 12 bolt.

The "Super 10 bolt" build basically keeps the stock 8.2" ring and pinion, as well as the stock posi case, yet its fitted with 12 bolt spider gears, cross pin and posi clutches. The housing is machined for a big steel cap for the left side. Usually Toms 30 spline inner axles and 31 spline outer axles are used. Typically the clutch packs are "tuned" which means they are shimmed to spec and not using springs for preload. 3" shafts and 1350 u joints are common. This combo is proven to hold up pretty well in automatic cars with 600-700hp. This setup is typically about $5k. Gary Ramadei (GTR1999) and Mike Dyers (Tracdogg) are the two best builders of either of these IRS combos in the country.

There is a lot more details to both of these combos, this is just the high lights.... Get that check book out...

Last edited by ajrothm; 01-20-2019 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:34 PM
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My Super 10 bolt build from Mike Dyers. Been in there for 25k miles and itís been beat on HARD, still quiet as can be.
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Old 01-20-2019, 05:07 PM
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send a PM to GTR1999 , he blue prints stock differentials.
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Old 01-20-2019, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MelWff View Post
send a PM to GTR1999 , he blue prints stock differentials.

X2 for Gary^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 01-20-2019, 06:34 PM
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Mike Dyers "Tracdogg" did mine too but it's not a Super 10. Just a beefed up stock rebuild. it's been no issue on street tires.

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Old 01-20-2019, 06:50 PM
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Wasn't there a pricey, commercially available C3 diff & housing based on Ford 9" ?
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Old 01-20-2019, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jackson View Post
Wasn't there a pricey, commercially available C3 diff & housing based on Ford 9" ?
Ridetech sells a 9" IRS variant (system is around 10k), and Detroit Speed & Engineering has a 12-bolt variant (close to $15k in their system if I'm reading the site correctly).

It's worth noting that these are complete suspension systems.

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Old 01-20-2019, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ajrothm View Post
Most everyone uses the factory 10 bolt case, both the Super 10 bolt and 12 bolt builds are using the factory rear end case. The "12 bolt" build requires extensive machining of the inside of the factory case to make the 8 7/8" ring gear clear. By doing the 12 bolt build, you have a bigger, stronger ring gear and a much better posi case (and more posi case options). For a stick car, especially if you're planning on running some drag radials, the 12 bolt is the way to go. You can expect to spend upwards of $7k for a full 12 IRS build with all of Tom's goodies, HD half shafts etc.... Down side is, 3.70 is the tallest gear ratio available for a 12 bolt.

The "Super 10 bolt" build basically keeps the stock 8.2" ring and pinion, as well as the stock posi case, yet its fitted with 12 bolt spider gears, cross pin and posi clutches. The housing is machined for a big steel cap for the left side. Usually Toms 30 spline inner axles and 31 spline outer axles are used. Typically the clutch packs are "tuned" which means they are shimmed to spec and not using springs for preload. 3" shafts and 1350 u joints are common. This combo is proven to hold up pretty well in automatic cars with 600-700hp. This setup is typically about $5k. Gary Ramadei (GTR1999) and Mike Dyers (Tracdogg) are the two best builders of either of these IRS combos in the country.

There is a lot more details to both of these combos, this is just the high lights.... Get that check book out...
Good summary. 69ttop502 has a 10 bolt with the best of everything and has similar build. Maybe check out his thread for reference to get an idea of what you need.
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Old 01-20-2019, 11:53 PM
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I was lucky enough to work directly under Mike Dyer (Tracdogg2) as he gave me full access to his shop and three days of his time to teach me and walk me through rebuilding my rear end myself. Iím also lucky enough to be able to retain everything I learn hands on so if I ever have to do it again in my own, all I need is access to the right equipment.

I will not go into detail about everything we did to my rear end here (not sure what things are his special secrets) but I canít tell you how happy I am with this rear end. 6k miles on it and Iíve beat this thing hard under 500 ft/lb launches. Still as quiet as can be.

I canít say enough good things about Mike. Heís the man for the job if you want someone to do it, imo.

-Stroke

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Old 01-21-2019, 01:39 PM
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Old 01-21-2019, 03:02 PM
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Does Tom still build rear ends?
http://tomsdifferentials.com/
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Old 01-21-2019, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by OldCarBum View Post
I know nothing about what it takes to build a strong Corvette independent rear differential.
There are numerous threads about building a super 12 bolt rear differential for racing, but nothing I've found really lays out what it takes to build a rear differential using the OEM differential case as a starting point.
I would like to open this thread to those who build performance differentials and those who have had a differential built that has held together under street or occasional track days usage.
It would be great to have the components and parts named with the manufacture.
I know this will open up a lot of discussion about what works best and we all know how many believe their opinion is the only way, so, I would like this thread to be more of an educational thread that could be added as a "Stickey" for those like me who know nothing and need to learn.
Using my build as an example:
I'll be running a 496 cubic inch, putting out an estimated 630+ foot pounds of torque and a TKO-600RR transmission with 3.36 gears.
I plan to use my Corvette for highway cruising, some spirited driving, mountain, coastal and foothill winding roads.
So, how would you build it using "top quality components"?
Posting photos is always nice.
Thanks, Greg

Thanks for starting this thread. I will need to do mine soon as well.
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Old 01-21-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rescue Rogers View Post
Does Tom still build rear ends?
http://tomsdifferentials.com/
Charles Tom Watt passed away one year ago, almost to the day. May God always bless him and keep him.
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Old 01-21-2019, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jackson View Post
Charles Tom Watt passed away one year ago, almost to the day. May God always bless him and keep him.
His wife is trying to hold the fort.
Tom stop building back when he was in Torrance.
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MelWff View Post
send a PM to GTR1999 , he blue prints stock differentials.
X3 for Gary. He is legit. Highly recommended.
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:55 PM
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I just finished mine with info from this forum and others. It was my first build and lots of fun.

Lightly used Eaton posi, polished
17 spline spider gears from same posi, deburred
timken bearings throughout
Tomís crossshaft
Tomís bearing cap
US Gears 3.73 lightning polished gearset
Used 66 case from eBay coated with POR15
Muskegon HD cover
HD 17 spline axles from Corvette International
steel clutch kit
Dennys Driveshaft pinion yoke
ARP ring gear bolts
Tomís cap screws for bearing caps


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Old 01-21-2019, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rescue Rogers View Post
Does Tom still build rear ends?
http://tomsdifferentials.com/
I called Tom's and talked with his wife.
At this time they are not building units, however they are still producing and selling the parts that made their rear diff's so good.
They recommended both Gary and Mike to do the actual work.
I am trying to get a list of the necessary parts to build a solid unit so I can send them out with my rear diff to one of the recommended builders and have them build the unit for me.

Last edited by OldCarBum; 01-21-2019 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:49 AM
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It looks like Dragvette is selling their own "Racers Rear End" with 30-spline inner axles, 30-spline spider gears and larger center pin. They're even manufacturing their own 30-spline inner axles they claim are better than Tom's (thicker flange), also US made. Anyone tried their stuff yet?
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 73racevette View Post
X3 for Gary. He is legit. Highly recommended.
x4 for Gary. He did my 12 bolt rear, as well as my trailing arms and steering box. Great guy, will explain every step for you and document it.
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