No start after cam install
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 46
Likes: 11
No start after cam install
hey guys, alot of you helped me with this cam install and i appreciate it, having issues getting it started. i did everything seemingly correct. cam sprocket and timing gear set to TDC before i put everything back together. i adjusted the lifters properly... all wiring is correct, dizzy connectors are good... but it turns but i am getting no spark. when i installed the dizzy it was in number 1 firing position and meshed with the oil pump and the crank was at TDC, i even felt in the plug hole to ensure the piston was at the top. it was turning but not firing. everything with the carb is hooked up and hasnt been touched so everything was set properly. i bumped the starter back to TDC and then took the dizzy cap off and it was pointining at firing position for #6..... sorry if this is a dumb question but how is that possible... isnt the turning of the crank 1 to 1 with the rotor? or is it every 2 turns of the crank is 1 turn of the rotor? thanks!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
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hey guys, alot of you helped me with this cam install and i appreciate it, having issues getting it started. i did everything seemingly correct. cam sprocket and timing gear set to TDC before i put everything back together. i adjusted the lifters properly... all wiring is correct, dizzy connectors are good... but it turns but i am getting no spark. when i installed the dizzy it was in number 1 firing position and meshed with the oil pump and the crank was at TDC, i even felt in the plug hole to ensure the piston was at the top. it was turning but not firing. everything with the carb is hooked up and hasnt been touched so everything was set properly. i bumped the starter back to TDC and then took the dizzy cap off and it was pointining at firing position for #6..... sorry if this is a dumb question but how is that possible... isnt the turning of the crank 1 to 1 with the rotor? or is it every 2 turns of the crank is 1 turn of the rotor? thanks!!
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Long Island
The dizzy turns 1/2 the speed of the crank. If you bump it around again it will be at #1.
If there is no spark and the dizzy is turning , I would suggest to check the wiring to the coil and / or points. etc
If there is no spark and the dizzy is turning , I would suggest to check the wiring to the coil and / or points. etc
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 198
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From: Murphy, Tx.
IF.... you installed the timing chain set with the dots on the gears next to each other, the #1 cylinder piston will be at top dead center..... on the exhaust stroke. When the dots on the cam and crank gear are pointing at each other that is actually cylinder #6 top dead center compression stroke. Most likely you have installed the distributor 180* out. Disable the coil, remove the spark plug from cylinder #1 and bump the starter until you hear/feel compression blow out, then turn the engine by hand until the timing mark is on 0* . Reinstall the distributor so that the rotor ends up pointing at the #1 terminal on the cap. The engine SHOULD start if everything else is okay.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2015
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From: SW Florida.
0%. Do you have a timing light? Not to check timing-yet, to see if you have spark. Less painful than putting a plug wire in your mouth and cranking the motor. If you have spark and fuel and are 180° out, it will pop and bark and spit fire out the carb. I think you have no spark.
Last edited by derekderek; Jan 24, 2019 at 10:36 AM.
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Racer
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From: Humboldt county Ca
If you set the valves with the timing on #6 instead of #1 I would go back and redo the valve setup again. I don't know if you set with both valves on each cylinder closed or by the method of using 0 and 180 on the crank. I wouldn't chance breaking a valve.
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Intermediate
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i for sure did not set the vlaves at number 6, i set the valves at TDC with the timing cover off so i could see the dots lined up on the gears. but after i installed the crank pulley when i was finished i turned the motor over so i had to refind tdc and this is where i messed up.
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I would verify TDC on 1 compression stroke then get some starter fluid and prime the carb. You can pull the valve covers and watch the valves and after th eintake valve cycles you are on compression.
You do want that car to fire off right away. Dont worry about wiping the cam until its at speed.
You do want that car to fire off right away. Dont worry about wiping the cam until its at speed.
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
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From: New Braunfels Texas
You put the distributor in with the timing gears dot to dot. #1 the timing dots face in the 12 o'clock position on both. So...you were on #6 as you found out.
Re-stab the distributor to #1 by blowing your thumb. The reason your thumb blows off is because this is TDC on the compression stroke of #1.
Line the cap and rotor up on one as close as you can by eye.....then take a little twist..counterclockwise....just a little bit and this will be around 10 degrees or close enough to start.
What cam lube did you use? If you used Comps red lube...get it done NOW....that lube will drip off little by little from sitting...leaving your cam naked. I recommend Moly Paste for cam lobes....stay on the lobe.
If the bowls are filled and there is power to your distributor....it should fire instant.......
Jebby
Re-stab the distributor to #1 by blowing your thumb. The reason your thumb blows off is because this is TDC on the compression stroke of #1.
Line the cap and rotor up on one as close as you can by eye.....then take a little twist..counterclockwise....just a little bit and this will be around 10 degrees or close enough to start.
What cam lube did you use? If you used Comps red lube...get it done NOW....that lube will drip off little by little from sitting...leaving your cam naked. I recommend Moly Paste for cam lobes....stay on the lobe.
If the bowls are filled and there is power to your distributor....it should fire instant.......
Jebby
Last edited by Jebbysan; Jan 24, 2019 at 11:13 AM.
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From: SW Florida.
As Jeb said, when timing dots face each other, engine is firing on 6. When crank dot AND cam dot are both straight up at 12 o:clock, firing on 1. now, it's splitting hairs but, it's not on the compression stroke or on the exhaust stroke it's at top dead center after the compression stroke and after the exhaust stroke.
Last edited by derekderek; Jan 24, 2019 at 10:40 AM.
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Yes you are correct, it's just easy to tell if you are heading to the compression stroke after the intake valve closes. So the next time number 1 gets to TDC ithe dizzy should be at #1. Its an easy way to determine where you are vs taking the timing cover off and looking for the dots after it's all buttoned up.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
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thanks all, ok so i spun it around 180 to fire on 1.... it sputtered and started to run for a second but rough and then quit as soon as i gave it some gas. the method i used to adjust the valves it shouldnt matter what position the motor was in, i adjusted them all to zero lash then spun the engine 90 degrees at a time and then whatever ones came loose i adjusted them all back down to zero lash for a total of 2 full rotations until all were at zero lash and then did a half a turn of preload on each one
this is the video i used as a guide. unfortunately i let the engine sit for about 6 days before i could start it because it was literally 2 degrees outside by me. i used the green assembly lube from lucas i think. but im thinking i let it sit too long and cranked it too much and now maybe i destroyed the cam and the valves are hanging open so it wont run. im so pissed i screwed this up. and have to tear this whole thing down again.
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
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From: New Braunfels Texas
thanks all, ok so i spun it around 180 to fire on 1.... it sputtered and started to run for a second but rough and then quit as soon as i gave it some gas. the method i used to adjust the valves it shouldnt matter what position the motor was in, i adjusted them all to zero lash then spun the engine 90 degrees at a time and then whatever ones came loose i adjusted them all back down to zero lash for a total of 2 full rotations until all were at zero lash and then did a half a turn of preload on each one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EGlb_VpTAw this is the video i used as a guide. unfortunately i let the engine sit for about 6 days before i could start it because it was literally 2 degrees outside by me. i used the green assembly lube from lucas i think. but im thinking i let it sit too long and cranked it too much and now maybe i destroyed the cam and the valves are hanging open so it wont run. im so pissed i screwed this up. and have to tear this whole thing down again.
Loosen them all up and start at #1. Lash to zero and then 1/2 turn.....zero lash is the point where the pushrod will not “jiggle” up and down.....turn the balancer 90 degrees, the next will be 8 and so on through the firing order til you end up at 2.
It does matter what position the engine is in....both lifters need to be down and on the base circle....this happens at TDC of each cylinder.....
Jebby
Last edited by Jebbysan; Jan 24, 2019 at 05:00 PM.
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From: SW Florida.
You didn't hurt your cam. Get some kind of zinc additive and stop worrying about the cam. The gear alignment is BOTH 6 and 12 and 12 and 12. You turn engine 1 crank rotation and it goes from one to the other. Just easier to align with dots right together. I set lifters to zero lash and start the car . Then pull them all down 1/4 turn while running. Your lash setup may be ok. At this point get a timing light and get initial around 10°.
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Yes,,,, dont worry about the cam lobes until you break it in. If you used a break in oil you should be fine.
The cam is fine. They aren't THAT fragile. Start from the beginning. Get the valves set correctly. Ensure the distributor is installed correctly. Fire it up and do the break in.