C3 Tech/Performance V8 Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Basic Tech and Maintenance for the C3 Corvette

Would you bore this engine block

 
Old 04-09-2019, 07:24 PM
  #121  
stingr69
CF Senior Member
 
stingr69's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Little Rock AR
Posts: 4,191
Liked 128 Times in 124 Posts
Default

FWIW - I just installed a pair of 1094's and they did have a clear thin rubbery coating. I would try the cheaper version of the same gasket and spray with copper coat next build.
stingr69 is online now  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:51 PM
  #122  
jackson
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Timmonsville SC
Posts: 4,969
Liked 133 Times in 123 Posts
Default

Need pushrods? Need how to choose PR info? Ask Trend; PR manufacturers


Trend's one-piece, 5/16" chome moly 0.080" thick wall SBC sets start about $110.





TREND PERFORMANCE SOUTH

Toll Free:800 326 8368
Local:828-862-8290
Fax: 586 447 0440
114 Lime Kiln Lane
Pisgah Forest, NC 28768

http://trendperform.com/contact.html

http://trendperform.com/file/6545

Last edited by jackson; 04-09-2019 at 08:59 PM.
jackson is online now  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:15 PM
  #123  
mongoose87
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
mongoose87's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2017
Posts: 184
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by jackson View Post
Mongoose OP
Does your 1094 gasket have a black coating? ... or is it clear/translucent? ... or something else?
the gasket i received looked like it may have had some clear coating, no black coating.




How forgiving is this copper coat stuff?
How forgiving is the 1094 gasket?
mongoose87 is offline  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:16 PM
  #124  
mongoose87
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
mongoose87's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2017
Posts: 184
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by stingr69 View Post
FWIW - I just installed a pair of 1094's and they did have a clear thin rubbery coating. I would try the cheaper version of the same gasket and spray with copper coat next build.
What condition were your mating surfaces when you used the 1094 gasket?
Did you use any copper or other sealant?
mongoose87 is offline  
Old 04-10-2019, 07:47 AM
  #125  
stingr69
CF Senior Member
 
stingr69's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Little Rock AR
Posts: 4,191
Liked 128 Times in 124 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mongoose87 View Post
What condition were your mating surfaces when you used the 1094 gasket?
Did you use any copper or other sealant?
My heads and block were original broached finish. The disclaimer in the package regarding specific surface finish required to use the gasket without additional sealer is difficult to verify easily in the field so......I use a spray can of coppercoat head gasket sealer. Spray both sides of the gasket and you are good to go whatever your surfaces are.
stingr69 is online now  
The following users liked this post: stingr69
mongoose87 (04-10-2019)
Old 04-10-2019, 08:18 AM
  #126  
jackson
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Timmonsville SC
Posts: 4,969
Liked 133 Times in 123 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mongoose87 View Post
so i made some progress on rebuilding my 350 motor (355 now).
After a lot of BS with these vortec heads, they are assembled and on the engine. I'm a little bit worried though...
Since i didnt have my engine block decked because i wanted to keep the matching numbers, i decided to spray copper coat on the felpro 1094 0.015" gasket i purchased. I didnt realize how sticky that stuff is and how it can attract dust and particles.

I tried to clean the mating surfaces as best i could with acetone, but as i placed the head on top of the gasket, i noticed a few tiny particles came out of the water jacket in the head and landed on the gasket.
I should have blown the head out a bit better obviously.
So i took the head off again, used acetone to wipe the gasket off where the particles landed, and resprayed the gasket with copper coat. After i removed the head, i saw there were areas on the gasket that contacted the head and the copper coat came off. I resprayed it, but i'm wondering if there will be some thicker spots with copper and thinner spots.
What are people's opinions of this stuff?

I'm kind of leaning toward removing the heads again and just getting another pair of 1094 gaskets and installing them without the spray. With the gasket being so thin, I'm worried these little particles or thickness of the copper coat will cause an issue.
Any thoughts?
OP mongoose
My thoughts? Sounds as though you've been careful ... my gut says those gaskets are probably gonna be OK as is. No guarantee though.

My local advance ap regular retail has 7733SH1 about $13 ... 1094 about $32. YMMV. Mailorder prices less $ + time.
jackson is online now  
The following users liked this post: jackson
mongoose87 (04-10-2019)
Old 04-10-2019, 09:49 AM
  #127  
stingr69
CF Senior Member
 
stingr69's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Little Rock AR
Posts: 4,191
Liked 128 Times in 124 Posts
Default

Dirty particles are bad. Extra sealer would not worry me much. You just need better solvent to clean them off and respray. I have a gallon of Xylol that I got back when you could buy that in a hardware store. Super strong solvent. 3M makes an amazing adhesive remover solvent you can buy at an automotive paint store that should take any adhesive off safely.
stingr69 is online now  
The following users liked this post: stingr69
mongoose87 (04-10-2019)
Old 04-10-2019, 11:49 AM
  #128  
jackson
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Timmonsville SC
Posts: 4,969
Liked 133 Times in 123 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by stingr69 View Post
Dirty particles are bad. Extra sealer would not worry me much. You just need better solvent to clean them off and respray. I have a gallon of Xylol that I got back when you could buy that in a hardware store. Super strong solvent. 3M makes an amazing adhesive remover solvent you can buy at an automotive paint store that should take any adhesive off safely.

I agree but it's tricky ... If particle's large enough to feel it's Bad & gotta go ... but if it's only visible I'd let it go.
Maybe vibrate or sharp-rap ends of heads to knock schmutz loose? then flush w/ water & air.
Since I can't actually see it or feel it ... better safe than sorry & start w/ clean sheet.

Once it's running, maybe flush system with a strong cleaner (oxalic acid-then neutralizer)
jackson is online now  
The following users liked this post: jackson
mongoose87 (04-10-2019)
Old 04-10-2019, 12:45 PM
  #129  
mongoose87
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
mongoose87's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2017
Posts: 184
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by jackson View Post

I agree but it's tricky ... If particle's large enough to feel it's Bad & gotta go ... but if it's only visible I'd let it go.
Maybe vibrate or sharp-rap ends of heads to knock schmutz loose? then flush w/ water & air.
Since I can't actually see it or feel it ... better safe than sorry & start w/ clean sheet.

Once it's running, maybe flush system with a strong cleaner (oxalic acid-then neutralizer)
Hmm, "large enough to feel,"...
It's kind of tough to tell when the copper coat sticks to your fingers.
After all the effort already put in, I'm going to remove the heads again and use new 1094 gaskets without the spray. Even if i did a better job blowing out the head before install, it seems like that copper stuff is just too sticky and there is too much of a risk that during the drying time dust particles will get onto the copper.
mongoose87 is offline  
Old 04-10-2019, 03:06 PM
  #130  
stingr69
CF Senior Member
 
stingr69's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Little Rock AR
Posts: 4,191
Liked 128 Times in 124 Posts
Default

They have some particles on them when they come out of the package. Cardboard fibers maybe? I just sprayed and torqued them down.
stingr69 is online now  
Old 04-15-2019, 02:09 PM
  #131  
mongoose87
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
mongoose87's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2017
Posts: 184
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Well, I torqued down the heads all the way again, and remeasured the needed pushrod length, just to be sure.
Just to reiterate, I just used checking springs, so I didn't take the lifters out to soak them or pump them up. Tightened down till pushrod didnt spin, then another 1/2 turn.

I measured roughly 7.045, which isn't quite as long as I read about others using. I ordered these rods at 7.046, CRN-11628-16, although I'm sure the more common 7.050 could have worked fine, but with the 0.020 that was shaved off the heads, I want to be as precise as possible with the non-stock setup. They are hardened chromoly, so they shouldn't have any issue with the increased valve spring pressure. Not sure what the exact limits are for the normal "heat treated" pushrods, but it was tough to find any at the correct length, chromoly or not. Thanks Jackson for the information about the limits of the hardened pushrods, at roughly 500lbs before deflection happens.

While I ordered the Fel Pro 1255 intake gaskets before, after much reading I decided not to go with those. Sunk cost, but at least it was comparatively small.
I bought the FEL-MS98000T kit after all the reading I did, even though there are gaskets not needed with the kit and it is a bit expensive for what it is. These are the metal ones layered with rubber/silicone. I wasn't able to find any part numbers for the just intake gaskets, which I find really annoying.

You really have to be careful with these engine enamel colors. I painted the heads with VHT brand chevy orange paint because I ran out of the duplicolor 1620 cans I started with, and i couldn't find more at autozone. Chevy orange in one brand is not the same as others. The duplicolor 1620, to me looks nicer with its brighter orange, so I will repaint the whole engine with 1620 once it is all sealed up. With the vortec heads mounted, there is some of the block mating surface unpainted, so this repainting will help with that as well.

Really excited to get these last few items, and seal this thing back up. Thanks for all the advice thus far.
mongoose87 is offline  
Old 04-15-2019, 02:55 PM
  #132  
stingr69
CF Senior Member
 
stingr69's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Little Rock AR
Posts: 4,191
Liked 128 Times in 124 Posts
Default

The "hardened" push rods are needed only for heads with guide plates.

Your valve adjusting method has me concerned. The best way is to move the push rod up and down to feel the point where it stops moving up and down, then go a half turn more. The difference between "loose", "in the adjustment range" and "too far" is hard to feel while spinning the push rod. "Stop rotating" could be all the way down at the bottom of lifter available travel and if you go a half turn more, the valve will be off its seat when it is supposed to be closed. The twist feel method is for someone who already knows how it is supposed to feel. Very easy to go too far with a twist method and a first timer.
stingr69 is online now  
Old 04-15-2019, 05:36 PM
  #133  
mongoose87
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
mongoose87's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2017
Posts: 184
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by stingr69 View Post
The "hardened" push rods are needed only for heads with guide plates.

Your valve adjusting method has me concerned. The best way is to move the push rod up and down to feel the point where it stops moving up and down, then go a half turn more. The difference between "loose", "in the adjustment range" and "too far" is hard to feel while spinning the push rod. "Stop rotating" could be all the way down at the bottom of lifter available travel and if you go a half turn more, the valve will be off its seat when it is supposed to be closed. The twist feel method is for someone who already knows how it is supposed to feel. Very easy to go too far with a twist method and a first timer.
Pushrods:
So i was know chromoly is typically only needed for guideplates in a stock applications, but I also read the normal ones deflect at higher valve spring pressures. I know 350lb isnt that much compared to the requirements of a solid lifter, but it's definitely more than any stock application. If you know of any information about the limits of the normal heat-treated pushrods and valve spring pressures typically resulting in deflection, I would love a link.
I figured getting the chromoly ones wouldnt hurt anything, correct?

Pushrod length measurement:
I can definitely try measuring once more moving the pushrod up and down, opposed to spinning, to verify. Why not?
I can say that i was able to finger tighten the rocker polylock in order to get it to stop spinning, no wrenching that would result in depressing the roller lifter or check spring.
mongoose87 is offline  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:03 PM
  #134  
jackson
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Timmonsville SC
Posts: 4,969
Liked 133 Times in 123 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mongoose87 View Post

I measured roughly 7.045, which isn't quite as long as I read about others using. I ordered these rods at 7.046, CRN-11628-16, although I'm sure the more common 7.050 could have worked fine, r.
Those press-fit Crane 5/16" x 0.062" wall will probably be fine ... I'd have chosen the one-piece Trend 5/16" x 0.080" wall for about same $.
jackson is online now  
 


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Would you bore this engine block


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: